This is the real issue- It Can Be Fixed

[HagginHall1999]

Just look at returned minutes and scoring in Cal era. We returned nothing from last year, even less than 2012-13. We absolutely have to bring people back. It is 100% on Cal to fix this.

I was naive enough to think Boston and Clarke were going to be so good that we could overcome it this year...but they weren't. I hope I am not being naive again, but the ball is in Cals court. No transfers and talk Clarke/Mintz into coming back, our returning scoring % will be in 40s or 50s.


This year: 7.6% of minutes played and 6.0% of scoring return from 2019-20 roster

19-20: 36.8% of minutes played and 27.2% of scoring return from 2018-19 roster

18-19: 32.7% of minutes played and 31.9% of scoring return from 2017-18 roster

17-18: 11.6% of minutes played and 7.4% of scoring return from 2016-17 roster

16-17: 30.9% of minutes played and 24.2% of scoring return from 2015-16 roster

15-16: 21.9% of minutes played and 14.1% of scoring return from 2014-15 roster

14-15: 64.6% of minutes played and 59.3% of scoring return from 2013-14 roster

13-14: 32.3% of minutes played and 31.2% of scoring return from 2012-13 roster

12-13: 7.1% of minutes played and 6.7% of scoring return from 2011-12 roster

11-12: 49.5% of minutes played and 54.2% of scoring return from 2010-11 roster

10-11: 18.4% of minutes played and 13.4% of scoring return from 2009-10 roster

09-10: 62.4% of minutes played and 56.7% of scoring return from 2008-09 roster

 

[TortElvisII]

It is a start. There are other issues. Preparing for every team as though we're playing 1993 Temple is part of it. Cal loves rock fights. Slowing down games. The offense is a bunch of dudes taking everybody off the dribble themselves. No defensive change-ups. Over relying on the star system. Giving time to future NBA draft picks with low skill over higher skilled college players. I'm sure people can list a thousand more things.

 

[JAC71]

That’s what Mike Decourcy was saying the other day on Tom Leach show and with the restrictions from the pandemic, it really hurt this team. No summer to get acclimated with each other and the school plus no exhibition games among other things.

 

[IrishMike409]

The fact that we brought back just Brooks......beyond ridiculous.

 

[FinancialPlannerZac]

100% agree. People want their cake and eat it too. "Cal needs to recruit guys that will stay longer than one year!" Well, we got those guys! This off-season is the most important in Cal's tenure. If we have multiple transfers, then I'm on-board with a potential change because the cycle just continues. BUT this could easily be the turning point for the next 3-4 seasons, in terms of constantly returning players. Askew, Allen, Toppin, and Ware should be locks to return. Brooks SHOULD return. That alone would be a nice core. I keep having this pipe dream of Jackson coming back and vaulting himself into a top 5 pick. If those 6 came back, I think we'd all look back at this year and be thankful. But a lot of big IFs need to play out the right way.

 

[AGEE11]

He has to stop the multi-year non NBA ready players from leaving.

This team with a junior Hagans flips the record easily if not more.

Much less if they had juniors EJ and Baker and Sophomores Juzang and Whitney

 

[Trinity45]

That’s what Mike Decourcy was saying the other day on Tom Leach show and with the restrictions from the pandemic, it really hurt this team. No summer to get acclimated with each other and the school plus no exhibition games among other things.

Not buying that, because every team is in the same boat, if Cal wasn't so stubborn at running is antiquated crappy offense and looked at his talent and then came up with some schemes to get the ball moving and get players into scoring position this team may have done okay not great but okay, but he keeps ramming that square peg into a round hole and it is not going to work for this team. He has had over half a season and what changes has he actually made, none, we are still running the same crap from day one, it did not work then and why should it work now. You know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting it to somehow change the next time.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Not buying that, because every team is in the same boat, if Cal wasn't so stubborn at running is antiquated crappy offense and looked at his talent and then came up with some schemes to get the ball moving and get players into scoring position this team may have done okay not great but okay, but he keeps ramming that square peg into a round hole and it is not going to work for this team. He has had over half a season and what changes has he actually made, none, we are still running the same crap from day one, it did not work then and why should it work now. You know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting it to somehow change the next time.

I get your point but look at Duke who is struggling pretty badly as well. Youthful teams are more impacted by covid imo. This isn't an excuse but I don't think it is outlandish either.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

You lost me at bringing back Clarke. We have a better chance of seeing Tony Delk suiting up for the cats next season. Regardless of whether he is actually hurt or not, Clark has shut it down and is putting himself in position to be ready for the draft. ZERO chance he returns.

 

[JAC71]

Not buying that, because every team is in the same boat, if Cal wasn't so stubborn at running is antiquated crappy offense and looked at his talent and then came up with some schemes to get the ball moving and get players into scoring position this team may have done okay not great but okay, but he keeps ramming that square peg into a round hole and it is not going to work for this team. He has had over half a season and what changes has he actually made, none, we are still running the same crap from day one, it did not work then and why should it work now. You know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting it to somehow change the next time.

Every team replaced ten players, six of them being freshmen? If you follow college basketball and look at the roster of the top teams you will see what’s wrong with the blue bloods this year. If not then you just don’t want to accept it and don’t like Calipari or the system he runs and that’s your right.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Not only that OP, but there was also another difference this year: a new coaching staff. We literally have 100% new players and 50% new coaches. This is as bizarre a year as it gets.

 

[dlh331]

Nice post Haggin.I have posted before that for Cal’s three superteams, all returned 50% or more minutes. Those teams also added 3 elite recruiting classes.

They went 102 and 14 for 87.9%

Cal’s other teams are 233-74 for 75.9%

 

[JAC71]

The fact that we brought back just Brooks......beyond ridiculous.

As much as a head case Hagans was , imagine him on this team. They wouldn’t have been undefeated but they would have won a lot more games than they have now. His defense and ability to drive to the basket is part of this teams problem now.

 

[irishcat1965]

Do I think UK will be better next year? Yes. I don’t see a total meltdown like this year. But will it be an Elite 8 or final four turn around? The chances of that are slim imo. It just isn’t a matter of player retention- which is obviously very important. It’s Cal’s refusal to change his game strategy to fit today’s college basketball that is also key. So while I think UK has a decent chance to have a competitive roster, will Cal get his head out of his *** and adapt? That’s where I think next season depends.

 

[Truth_Teller_]

The real issue is our fanbase. Particularly the ones with their political rage they want to inject into everything. It needs to be gutted out. Our players are leaving Lexington despising the fanbase. The coaches and administrators are embarrassed by those same fans and their behavior and are tired of having to excuse them to players, recruits and their families. Good news is the average lifespan in KY isn't that great comparatively, and KY also has a poor healthcare, high obesity rates and high cancer rates. And judging by the amount of prayer request threads and obituary threads posted here daily and weekly, hopefully some of you are meeting that end quickly and won't be around much longer to cause the problems.

What an absolute embarrassment some of you people have become for Rupp, Hall, Kightley and every other reputable person affiliated with UK basketball. They would be ashamed of you!

 

[Trinity45]

Every team replaced ten players, six of them being freshmen? If you follow college basketball and look at the roster of the top teams you will see what’s wrong with the blue bloods this year. If not then you just don’t want to accept it and don’t like Calipari or the system he runs and that’s your right.

That part is Cal's making, but as far as the rest every team was limited over the summer and what they could and couldn't do but don't give me that crap about freshmen on the team, whose fault is that, whose system created this mess.

 

[Montana81]

Just look at returned minutes and scoring in Cal era. We returned nothing from last year, even less than 2012-13. We absolutely have to bring people back. It is 100% on Cal to fix this.

I was naive enough to think Boston and Clarke were going to be so good that we could overcome it this year...but they weren't. I hope I am not being naive again, but the ball is in Cals court. No transfers and talk Clarke/Mintz into coming back, our returning scoring % will be in 40s or 50s.


This year: 7.6% of minutes played and 6.0% of scoring return from 2019-20 roster

19-20: 36.8% of minutes played and 27.2% of scoring return from 2018-19 roster

18-19: 32.7% of minutes played and 31.9% of scoring return from 2017-18 roster

17-18: 11.6% of minutes played and 7.4% of scoring return from 2016-17 roster

16-17: 30.9% of minutes played and 24.2% of scoring return from 2015-16 roster

15-16: 21.9% of minutes played and 14.1% of scoring return from 2014-15 roster

14-15: 64.6% of minutes played and 59.3% of scoring return from 2013-14 roster

13-14: 32.3% of minutes played and 31.2% of scoring return from 2012-13 roster

12-13: 7.1% of minutes played and 6.7% of scoring return from 2011-12 roster

11-12: 49.5% of minutes played and 54.2% of scoring return from 2010-11 roster

10-11: 18.4% of minutes played and 13.4% of scoring return from 2009-10 roster

09-10: 62.4% of minutes played and 56.7% of scoring return from 2008-09 roster

I still don’t think it’s right to use this team as an indictment on any individual players actual ability.

On top of having a nearly entirely new team, we’ve had multiple long term injuries to starters, officiating crews that seem all too happy to kick us(maybe more so Cal) while we’re down, and little to know fan supports which is usually one of our major advantages(I’m a believer the fans carry this program more than a lot realize).

But mostly the lack of chemistry...time played together and time with the coaching staff and their philosophies has made everyone from player to coach look way worse than they really are.

Cal is not this bad of a coach, BJ Boston, Devin Askew etc are not this bad at basketball.

But, you are 100% correct that the annual rebuilds have to stop. Cal has been playing with fire for a long time. I think the 2011 and even more so the 2014 tourney runs convinced him he could do that consistently. He was wrong. Can he admit it though? The man is confident to a fault(aka cocky). Some humility would serve him well.

 

[Basscat1987]

That’s what Mike Decourcy was saying the other day on Tom Leach show and with the restrictions from the pandemic, it really hurt this team. No summer to get acclimated with each other and the school plus no exhibition games among other things.

Nothing, I repeat NOTHING, Justifies a 5–12 record at Kentucky. I don’t give a damn if this team never practices 1 time in the fall

 

[Trinity45]

I get your point but look at Duke who is struggling pretty badly as well. Youthful teams are more impacted by covid imo. This isn't an excuse but I don't think it is outlandish either.

Again whose fault is that, the coaches who pushed this stupid one and done system, created a culture of recruiting over players who might stay and develop. I have no sympathy for those who created this culture. But here is all I have to say about Cal, tell me one thing he has tried to change this season, we are passed the halfway mark and he is still doing the same stupid crap that didn't work on day one. Any coach worth his salary would have tried to adjust to his talent instead of forcing that talent what there, to continue to play in a broken system.

 

[Doc4UK!]

The real issue is our fanbase. Particularly the ones with their political rage they want to inject into everything. It needs to be gutted out. Our players are leaving Lexington despising the fanbase. The coaches and administrators are embarrassed by those same fans and their behavior and are tired of having to excuse them to players, recruits and their families. Good news is the average lifespan in KY isn't that great comparatively, and KY also has a poor healthcare, high obesity rates and high cancer rates. And judging by the amount of prayer request threads and obituary threads posted here daily and weekly, hopefully some of you are meeting that end quickly and won't be around much longer to cause the problems.

What an absolute embarrassment some of you people have become for Rupp, Hall, Kightley and every other reputable person affiliated with UK basketball. They would be ashamed of you!

Second post? Mmmm? TROLL alert

 

[Ron Mehico]

Second post? Mmmm? Wonder which poster just created a new name to hide behind. Maybe the most shameful post I have ever read on this site! Sounds as if this poster is calling out the BBN as deplorables?

This is the same fan base that injects tons of money into the program allowing UK to have the highest paid coach in all of basketball and in Turn the cost of attending UK basketball is the highest in the country. Even though we have a losing record against top 25 teams over the past five years! I could go on and on. A fan base can be critical of a 5-12 record at any school! Unfortunately blue bloods can be also runs if a decline continues. Witness the situation at IU!

Cmon man, have some will power for gods sake. No one was responding and his stupid troll post was getting forgotten. You gave him just what he wanted. He was sitting around refreshing over and over just waiting for a response like a giant loser.

He’ll probably do a “laughing emoji” within 30 seconds of my post, just watch.

 

[Truth_Teller_]

Second post? Mmmm? Wonder which poster just created a new name to hide behind. Maybe the most shameful post I have ever read on this site! Sounds as if this poster is calling out the BBN as deplorables?

This is the same fan base that injects tons of money into the program allowing UK to have the highest paid coach in all of basketball and in Turn the cost of attending UK basketball is the highest in the country. Even though we have a losing record against top 25 teams over the past five years! I could go on and on. A fan base can be critical of a 5-12 record at any school! Unfortunately blue bloods can be also runs if a decline continues. Witness the situation at IU!

IU is in shambles because their fanbase is nuts. No one good wants to coach there or play there. It's the exact same place UK is heading if the ****** portion of our fanbase gets their way. You literally just proved my point.

We have a bad record against top 25 teams because of this season. Take it away and out record suddenly becomes a lot better. Just look across the last 2 seasons alone for evidence. It's an anomaly of a year.

Also, UK games aren't the most expensive. Try getting tickets at Cameron or Allen Fieldhouse. Even Purdue tickets can be costly in a big game.

You think it's shameful because there is a lot of truth in it.

 

[RunninRichie]

It is a start. There are other issues. Preparing for every team as though we're playing 1993 Temple is part of it. Cal loves rock fights. Slowing down games. The offense is a bunch of dudes taking everybody off the dribble themselves. No defensive change-ups. Over relying on the star system. Giving time to future NBA draft picks with low skill over higher skilled college players. I'm sure people can list a thousand more things.

“go make a play”

 

[FrankUnderwood]

This is one of a plethora of issues. Where is there “talk” of Clarke coming back?

 

[RunninRichie]

IU is in shambles because their fanbase is nuts. No one good wants to coach there or play there. It's the exact same place UK is heading if the ****** portion of our fanbase gets their way. You literally just proved my point.

We have a bad record against top 25 teams because of this season. Take it away and out record suddenly becomes a lot better. Just look across the last 2 seasons alone for evidence. It's an anomaly of a year.

Also, UK games aren't the most expensive. Try getting tickets at Cameron or Allen Fieldhouse. Even Purdue tickets can be costly in a big game.

wow! how can I get as deluded as you?

 

[RunninRichie]

lead belly?

 

[FrankUnderwood]

OP- don’t you think Cal needs to maybe run an offense? At all? What type of offense is he running this year? What type of offense did he run the last few seasons?

Cal doesn’t really coach- he admitted in his call in show last night. “Go make a play”

 

[Doc4UK!]

Cmon man, have some will power for gods sake. No one was responding and his stupid troll post was getting forgotten. You gave him just what he wanted. He was sitting around refreshing over and over just waiting for a response like a giant loser.

He’ll probably do a “laughing emoji” within 30 seconds of my post, just watch.

You are right . Just got caught up in the moment. The mods should delete the post

 

[Truth_Teller_]

You are right . Just got caught up in the moment. The mods should delete the post

No worries. I have it copy and pasted to just be posted again.

 

[HagginHall1999]

This is one of a plethora of issues. Where is there “talk” of Clarke coming back?

I was saying Cal needs to talk Clarke into coming back, not that there is talk of it.

 

[wildcat111]

Just look at returned minutes and scoring in Cal era. We returned nothing from last year, even less than 2012-13. We absolutely have to bring people back. It is 100% on Cal to fix this.

I was naive enough to think Boston and Clarke were going to be so good that we could overcome it this year...but they weren't. I hope I am not being naive again, but the ball is in Cals court. No transfers and talk Clarke/Mintz into coming back, our returning scoring % will be in 40s or 50s.


This year: 7.6% of minutes played and 6.0% of scoring return from 2019-20 roster

19-20: 36.8% of minutes played and 27.2% of scoring return from 2018-19 roster

18-19: 32.7% of minutes played and 31.9% of scoring return from 2017-18 roster

17-18: 11.6% of minutes played and 7.4% of scoring return from 2016-17 roster

16-17: 30.9% of minutes played and 24.2% of scoring return from 2015-16 roster

15-16: 21.9% of minutes played and 14.1% of scoring return from 2014-15 roster

14-15: 64.6% of minutes played and 59.3% of scoring return from 2013-14 roster

13-14: 32.3% of minutes played and 31.2% of scoring return from 2012-13 roster

12-13: 7.1% of minutes played and 6.7% of scoring return from 2011-12 roster

11-12: 49.5% of minutes played and 54.2% of scoring return from 2010-11 roster

10-11: 18.4% of minutes played and 13.4% of scoring return from 2009-10 roster

09-10: 62.4% of minutes played and 56.7% of scoring return from 2008-09 roster

Same problem every year...you can't ignore it, but Cal refuses to fix it. Let's face facts....Cal is focused solely on draft picks and solving poverty one draft pick at a time. If you keep players more than one year, you lose opportunity for draft picks.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Just look at returned minutes and scoring in Cal era. We returned nothing from last year, even less than 2012-13. We absolutely have to bring people back. It is 100% on Cal to fix this.

I was naive enough to think Boston and Clarke were going to be so good that we could overcome it this year...but they weren't. I hope I am not being naive again, but the ball is in Cals court. No transfers and talk Clarke/Mintz into coming back, our returning scoring % will be in 40s or 50s.


This year: 7.6% of minutes played and 6.0% of scoring return from 2019-20 roster

19-20: 36.8% of minutes played and 27.2% of scoring return from 2018-19 roster

18-19: 32.7% of minutes played and 31.9% of scoring return from 2017-18 roster

17-18: 11.6% of minutes played and 7.4% of scoring return from 2016-17 roster

16-17: 30.9% of minutes played and 24.2% of scoring return from 2015-16 roster

15-16: 21.9% of minutes played and 14.1% of scoring return from 2014-15 roster

14-15: 64.6% of minutes played and 59.3% of scoring return from 2013-14 roster

13-14: 32.3% of minutes played and 31.2% of scoring return from 2012-13 roster

12-13: 7.1% of minutes played and 6.7% of scoring return from 2011-12 roster

11-12: 49.5% of minutes played and 54.2% of scoring return from 2010-11 roster

10-11: 18.4% of minutes played and 13.4% of scoring return from 2009-10 roster

09-10: 62.4% of minutes played and 56.7% of scoring return from 2008-09 roster

Have to give you credit for trying hard.

 

[HagginHall1999]

OP- don’t you think Cal needs to maybe run an offense? At all? What type of offense is he running this year? What type of offense did he run the last few seasons?

Cal doesn’t really coach- he admitted in his call in show last night. “Go make a play”

Cal hasn't changed his offense since he got here, so yeah he should probably adapt to talent.

What I posted doesn't lie though. Look at the seasons based on percentage of scoring returning in rank order. It is close to how you would rank Cal's best teams here. There are some outliers like 2011/2017. 2011 came out of nowhere much like 2014. 2017 had two of the most prolific scorers we've had in Cal era in Fox/Monk.

The bottom line is we have had great seasons when we bring back a big chunk of scoring...he has to convince guys to come back to school.

1. 2015
2. 2012
3. 2010
4. 2019
5. 2014
6. 2020
7. 2017
8. 2016
9. 2011
10. 2018
11. 2013
12. 2021

 

[KyFaninNC]

I get your point but look at Duke who is struggling pretty badly as well. Youthful teams are more impacted by covid imo. This isn't an excuse but I don't think it is outlandish either.

Who makes the decision to be young? You just refuse to accept what is right in front of you. Covid is not the reason, it is an excuse. Terrible evaluations of recruits, no shooters, putrid coaching, refusing to change. No set plays, awful defensive strategy.

 

[Jont0805]

You are right . Just got caught up in the moment. The mods should delete the post

yeah I agree if there are even mods? I’m not real frequent on here but I think basically saying he hopes Kentuckians die and is glad we die early would be a reason to delete the post and person if there ever was one.

 

[JAC71]

That part is Cal's making, but as far as the rest every team was limited over the summer and what they could and couldn't do but don't give me that crap about freshmen on the team, whose fault is that, whose system created this mess.

You probably weren’t complaining much when that same system ran by mostly freshmen and sophomores were going to final fours. But I get it, you just do not like Calipari or this team.

 

[irishcat1965]

The real issue is our fanbase. Particularly the ones with their political rage they want to inject into everything. It needs to be gutted out. Our players are leaving Lexington despising the fanbase. The coaches and administrators are embarrassed by those same fans and their behavior and are tired of having to excuse them to players, recruits and their families. Good news is the average lifespan in KY isn't that great comparatively, and KY also has a poor healthcare, high obesity rates and high cancer rates. And judging by the amount of prayer request threads and obituary threads posted here daily and weekly, hopefully some of you are meeting that end quickly and won't be around much longer to cause the problems.

What an absolute embarrassment some of you people have become for Rupp, Hall, Kightley and every other reputable person affiliated with UK basketball. They would be ashamed of you!

This is obviously a UL fan. Hilarious. Probably Petjurino.

 

[RunninRichie]

This is obviously a UL fan. Hilarious. Probably Petjurino.

lead belly

 

[RunninRichie]

@Truth_Teller_ why do you keep coming back bro? surely you’re bored? you still flexing your free VPN?

 

[HagginHall1999]

Who makes the decision to be young? You just refuse to accept what is right in front of you. Covid is not the reason, it is an excuse. Terrible evaluations of recruits, no shooters, putrid coaching, refusing to change. No set plays, awful defensive strategy.

Cal does...I am not absolving him of anything...