The ultimatum rumor mil

[Drebin]

In hindsight, he is right. Lem should have been fired a season or so earlier for sure. But at that time, I don't think Oak would have made the jump from UVA and we'd have someone else. Taking all things into consideration, I think the rough Lem years, as bad as they were, were worth being where we are today.

That one year cost our athletic department and the overall community a lot of money. ADs have been fired for less.

 

[patdog]

A lot of people who post here will be disappointed that we are better than expected

Yeah, I've invested almost 50 years in Mississippi State fandom just to root for us to fail. Of course I'll be disappointed if we have a winning season. **

 

[tired]

Unfortunately we aren't competing against last year's team. We still have the worst talent and depth in a 16 team league. Everyone else is working to get better every year too.

I don't blv we have the worst but like I said, no use debating it until we see the product on the field & you'll be happily

I agree firmly with the rest.

 

[Right_Field_Heckler]

I think we need some stability for another couple years.

I agree that stability is important. However, at some point, poor performance can do more harm than making a coaching change after three seasons.

 

[patdog]

I think we need some stability for another couple years.

Stability with a bad coach is just stupid. It’s just prolonging the inevitable and more years of suffering. If you have a bad coach, you need change, not stability. And the sooner the better.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

He should've been fired a year earlier. This isn't even a debatable point. That the timing allowed us to luck up and have Oak fall into our lap doesn't make it better. The fact that he waited a year too long to can Lemonis is a demerit on his resume. If he's as good as some of you think, he could've fired him when he should have and saved us another year of sunk cost with lardass, and gone out and fought for and won Oak a year earlier.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily this fan base is willing to accept mediocrity. Hell, we lean into it.

Wait, so you say we should have fired him after 2024, when we were on the bubble of hosting and had made a big improvement? 2023 I get that, that's similar to Auburn firing Chizik. If you go past that, I'm OK giving him until 2025.

But either way, yes, Selmon got extremely lucky that it worked out the way it did.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This whole "Lebby being 1-15 is OK because coaching doesn't matter" would be a bad argument with plenty of counterexamples, even in a world where Lebby's poor coaching decisions didn't cause us multiple games last year.

In a world where we are at a permanent financial disadvantage, having a good "gameday coach" who can steal a win or two every year by out-scheming becomes the most important quality we should look for in a coach, and Lebby is the complete and total opposite of that.

Exactly right regarding player development and Xs and Os, knowing how to build a roster and knowing how to run a program, if you are a school that is one of the poors, or not ultra wealthy.

all of those qualities are apparently trumped by kissing Booster Arse.

i will say, Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, just put seven players in the nfl this year and has put over 100 in the nfl in his career. He’s doing that mostly with three stars from small towns in his state of 3 million. So it can be done.

Been saying this for years. Come to think of it, hiring these long term builds was just as much BS in 2006 as it is in 2026.

 

[DrQuayEvans]

That one year cost our athletic department and the overall community a lot of money. ADs have been fired for less.

When is the last time a major conference AD got fired? Honest question. Some of these guys seem untouchable even after making terrible decisions.

I guess the LSU guy from last year. Any others?

 

[Drebin]

Wait, so you say we should have fired him after 2024, when we were on the bubble of hosting and had made a big improvement? 2023 I get that, that's similar to Auburn firing Chizik. If you go past that, I'm OK giving him until 2025.

But either way, yes, Selmon got extremely lucky that it worked out the way it did.

We did not, indeed, show improvement in 2024. How long had it been, at that point, that we hadn't hosted? That's the standard at MSU, and anything less isn't good enough.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Not quite the same as us playing home games in Orlando & Tampa.

Correct. It’d be more like us playing a team like Texas in Jackson in the 80’s, when the Vet was still twice the capacity of Scott Field.

 

[Perd Hapley]

To be even clearer it gave UGA fans more opportunity to attend the game…

It would have been near 50/50 either way. UGA would have invaded Bobby Dodd and had nearly half the crowd there, too. Just like Bama does in Starkville when we’re really terrible, but even worse because of the number of UGA fans already in Atlanta area dwarfs the number of GT fans, even though it’s where their campus is.

 

[Perd Hapley]

He should've been fired a year earlier. This isn't even a debatable point. That the timing allowed us to luck up and have Oak fall into our lap doesn't make it better. The fact that he waited a year too long to can Lemonis is a demerit on his resume. If he's as good as some of you think, he could've fired him when he should have and saved us another year of sunk cost with lardass, and gone out and fought for and won Oak a year earlier.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily this fan base is willing to accept mediocrity. Hell, we lean into it.

You could make the argument that he should have been fired 2 years earlier, but 2024 was leaps and bounds better than 2022-2023, so I don’t see how that would make sense to fire him then, after the improvement from getting a real pitching coach.

I think Lemonis’ termination timing was handled about as well as it could have been. The buyout was fairly prohibitive in 2023, and 2024 was a step up.

 

[patdog]

You could make the argument that he should have been fired 2 years earlier, but 2024 was leaps and bounds better than 2022-2023, so I don’t see how that would make sense to fire him then, after the improvement from getting a real pitching coach.

I think Lemonis’ termination timing was handled about as well as it could have been. The buyout was fairly prohibitive in 2023, and 2024 was a step up.

He absolutely should have been fired in 2023. But to me even after the 2024 season he should have been fired for 3 years without hosting or winning a regional. Yes, we were improved that year. But not up to Mississippi State standards, and he'd used up more than his grace period the last 2 years. It all worked out OK, but damn were we lucky that O'Connor wanted out of Virginia at the time we finally did what should have been done 2 years earlier.

 

[Drebin]

You could make the argument that he should have been fired 2 years earlier, but 2024 was leaps and bounds better than 2022-2023, so I don’t see how that would make sense to fire him then, after the improvement from getting a real pitching coach.

I think Lemonis’ termination timing was handled about as well as it could have been. The buyout was fairly prohibitive in 2023, and 2024 was a step up.

You answered your own question. He hired a pitching coach. One that we would've likely kept through another coaching hire.

Bottom line, we went three straight years without hosting. And that was right after winning a natty. One is understandable if you have to reload. Two is a fireable offense. Three? Well we are our own worst enemy sometimes.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We did not, indeed, show improvement in 2024.

I mean, yeah OKAY. 9 SEC wins to 17 SEC wins. Can't discuss things when you're being illogical.

How long had it been, at that point, that we hadn't hosted? That's the standard at MSU, and anything less isn't good enough.

Rigid things like this guide the decisions of idiots (sort of like this rumored football ultimatum of 7 wins). We were on the bubble of hosting, didn't happen, so if you're looking at trajectories, you have to give your national title winning coach another year at that point. Again, the time to fire was 2023, if you're going to do it early.

Even in our greatest baseball decade ever (2011-2021, taking out 2020), we hosted 40% of the time. This 'standard' you are creating was fake news at that time. Now, with our current commitment, sure, let's set that standard, and I think OC embraces that. But you gonna want to fire him if he goes 17-13 in the SEC and it's a weird year where we get left out of hosting for some reason? That's dumb.

Lemon's first 4 years cancel themselves out. Fire him then if you want. We didn't. Year 5 was on the hosting bubble. You have to give him another year, barring a scandal.

 

[Drebin]

I mean, yeah OKAY. 9 SEC wins to 17 SEC wins. Can't discuss things when you're being illogical.


Rigid things like this guide the decisions of idiots (sort of like this rumored football ultimatum of 7 wins). We were on the bubble of hosting, didn't happen, so if you're looking at trajectories, you have to give your national title winning coach another year at that point. Again, the time to fire was 2023, if you're going to do it early.

Even in our greatest baseball decade ever (2011-2021, taking out 2020), we hosted 40% of the time. This 'standard' you are creating was fake news at that time. Now, with our current commitment, sure, let's set that standard, and I think OC embraces that. But you gonna want to fire him if he goes 17-13 in the SEC and it's a weird year where we get left out of hosting for some reason? That's dumb.

Lemon's first 4 years cancel themselves out. Fire him then if you want. We didn't. Year 5 was on the hosting bubble. You have to give him another year, barring a scandal.

Stop with the textual diarrhea.

In his third season after the natty, after two recruiting portal class chances to fix the roster, he still didn't host a regional. Of course 9 wins to 17 is an improvement over the previous year but that's missing context and you're being intentionally dishonest about that. Bottom line, he didn't accomplish what is a minimum expectation for this program three years running after having the momentum of winning a natty behind him. It was already a concern that he didn't win it with his own players and when they graduated out, that theory got proven. So he was a failure. You can make an argument that he should've been fired after 22. He absolutely should've been fired in 23. We finally did it in 24.

I didn't have Goat carrying water for Lemonis on my bingo card today, but here we are.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You can make an argument that he should've been fired after 22. He absolutely should've been fired in 23. We finally did it in 24.

Come on man, at least get the facts right.

I didn't have Goat carrying water for Lemonis on my bingo card today, but here we are.

Strawman. Textbook Drebin.