The topic of improvement for Hoops

[ShrubDog]

I have kept quit for years about our Hoops program. I had to let nature take its course to see where this whole ship was heading. And we have been bailing water and now we are treading water.

Just because some see improvement they want to give RR another year. So if there is more improvement next year we give him another. Keep in mind at this rate of improvement, we will still suck bad and be behind everyone else.

There has to be a major pole shift to occur quickly to get back on board with a winning program. And this slight improvement each year going from 20 TO to 15 TO a game, no triple threat PG, no 2-3 spot shooters and other messed up stuff....well its going no where slowly.

 

[Bulldogg31]

How would you fix it and how long will that take?

 

[patdog]

Average score in SEC games:
2013 - 58.9-74.2 (4-14 record)
2014 - 64.7-75.3 (3-15 record)
2015 - 62.8-67.5 (5-8 record)

At this rate of improvement, we would be breakeven in the SEC next year. With this recruiting class coming in seemingly being better than any Ray has had in the past, I think he'll get another year unless the wheels just completely come off in the next few weeks.

 

[ShrubDog]

There has to be massive improvement next year or its over. We dont know how to set screens or run a motion or pass the ball yet. Multiple people out of position on defense all the time. There is not one clear cut leader and tenacity is lacking. Take the two losses to OM as an example. We never attacked the rack...if we do we probably win.

And to fix it we have to find the best coach money can buy unless a miracle happens next year.

 

[johnson86-1]

I have kept quit for years about our Hoops program. I had to let nature take its course to see where this whole ship was heading. And we have been bailing water and now we are treading water.

Just because some see improvement they want to give RR another year. So if there is more improvement next year we give him another. Keep in mind at this rate of improvement, we will still suck bad and be behind everyone else.

There has to be a major pole shift to occur quickly to get back on board with a winning program. And this slight improvement each year going from 20 TO to 15 TO a game, no triple threat PG, no 2-3 spot shooters and other messed up stuff....well its going no where slowly.

It's not going no where slowly. It's going forward slowly (although I suspect we will top out at around a middling SEC team, which is not good or good enough).

Might as well get behind Ray for another year. While I'm not optimistic, he's still just in year 3 (it seems so much longer) and has the excuse of injuries and being dropped into a situation where he was totally unprepared to recruit (which is Stricklin's fault, not his), while also trying to rebuild a program. He's made enough progress (both on the court and by showing an inkling of recruiting ability) that we can't fire him after just year 3.

It's a real shame because while there were obviously major problems with the program, had we hired somebody that could recruit off the bat, I think Chicken, Ware, and Fred would have formed a very solid nucleus. We just needed a solid recruiting class behind them with some more shooters.

 

[121Josey]

Average score in SEC games:
2013 - 58.9-74.2 (4-14 record)
2014 - 64.7-75.3 (3-15 record)
2015 - 62.8-67.5 (5-8 record)

At this rate of improvement, we would be breakeven in the SEC next year. With this recruiting class coming in seemingly being better than any Ray has had in the past, I think he'll get another year unless the wheels just completely come off in the next few weeks.

This makes no sense. How is 6-12 in the SEC next year break even?

Why don't you just give him a contract extension if you enjoy breaking even so much?** I can't wait to see what the wheels completely coming off looks like.**

 

[Bulldogg31]

I disagree with the lack of tenacity. The players have no give up in them at all. They play to the whistle.

Also, Sword, Thomas, Ware, and even Daniels attacked the rim several times last night. Craig and Fred both had open looks at 3's to tie the game with a minute left. Both rimmed out but if either goes in I think we win that game. Just didn't make the shots.

You cannot fault the effort however.

 

[seshomoru]

If you can't see the improvement you're blind.

nt

 

[patdog]

You really are being a dubmass this morning. 3-15 last year is .167. 5-8 this year is .385. If we match that improvement next season, we'll be closer to 11-7 than 6-12.

 

[NCDawg.sixpack]

I disagree with the lack of tenacity. The players have no give up in them at all. They play to the whistle.

Also, Sword, Thomas, Ware, and even Daniels attacked the rim several times last night. Craig and Fred both had open looks at 3's to tie the game with a minute left. Both rimmed out but if either goes in I think we win that game. Just didn't make the shots.

You cannot fault the effort however.

I somewhat agree. I think the team was playing hard, the shots just did not fall, and the Ole Miss pony-tailed guard was shooting the lights out.

 

[ShrubDog]

The guys do play tough and I give them credit. But driving to the hole a couple of times does not mean they have tenacity on offense. There are situations in these games where there should be an entry pass to the block, high low play.....but more importantly aggressiveness to the hoop. Its not being done.

Look at our APG and overall Off stats....yea there is some improvement but its on creep mode fellas. Last in APG and 2nd to last in PPG.



So give him next year to improve and see what he has done.

 

[Philly Dawg]

One concern I have is that we've suffered an unusual number of injuries every year Ray has been coach and that next year may be no different.

 

[Seinfeld]

This post pretty much sums up my own thoughts. I don't think that we've hit the ceiling with Ray and given enough time, I do think that he'll eventually have us in a position of being a solid NIT team with the occasional NCAA bid thrown in. While the progress has been admittedly slow, he has moved things forward each season that he's been here.

With all that said, however, my fear is that this progress is bound to level out at some point and as frustrating as seasons like this continue to be, I'm afraid that we're a lot closer to Ray's ceiling than we are his floor.

I don't know... to give a Grizzlies comparison, is Rick Ray a Rudy Gay that will periodically show flashes of great play only to never quite get to where you think he should be? Or is he more of a Mike Conley that may have a lot to learn but given enough time, he'll keep raising the bar every year? My heart wants me to think that he's the latter. My head just doesn't see it though

 

[ShrubDog]

Very well said

 

[patdog]

No doubt there's been slow improvement each year under Ray. Next year, we've got a couple of recruits coming in who actually look like they may be legitimate SEC starters. We'll know a lot more about where Ray's ceiling is a year from now.

 

[BiscuitEater]

My main issue ..

No doubt there's been slow improvement each year under Ray. Next year, we've got a couple of recruits coming in who actually look like they may be legitimate SEC starters. We'll know a lot more about where Ray's ceiling is a year from now.

Is complete lack of ANY Offense in year 3. Yes, we have won 5 SEC games BUT Ray and most of this team are in their THIRD year. One would expect SOME improvement.

Sly Croom went 3-8, 3-8, 3-9 ... 8-5, 4-8. Yes, there was some improvement in years 3 & 4 but we figured out that he just wasn't cut out to be an SEC coach.

 

[ShrubDog]

The Sly Croom comparison is a valid analogy.

 

[kired]

How much improvement is due to coaching, and how much is due to the fact that we don't have to trot Baxter Price or Tyson Cunningham out there for meaningful minutes - or due to natural improvement of our starters who now have almost 3 seasons under their belt?

Any coach in the world should have a better season with this team vs. the rosters we had in 2013 and 2014. The early season losses are what I have trouble with this year. Blowout losses to McNeese St and Arkansas St. I don't care who is injured or coming back from injury - that should not have happened in year 3.

I figure Ray will get another year. But I expected to be an NIT team this year and that's not going to happen. We've got to see major improvement next year to make me believe we'll ever have a chance at being a top 25 team under Ray.

 

[ShrubDog]

And our SOS is like 113. So say we had made the NIT bubble losses to teams like Northwest south carolina teams would keep us out.