Well I did get very much "involved in the scandal talk," because it was instrumental in two of three of Roy's last nattys ('05 and '09). No nothing can change what happened on the court in those years as you noted, but both are forever tarnished. OFC
The roy unc era
- Thread starter youknowit1
- Start date
Well I did get very much "involved in the scandal talk," because it was instrumental in two of three of Roy's last nattys ('05 and '09). No nothing can change what happened on the court in those years as you noted, but both are forever tarnished. OFC
Not all Top 15-25 players are the same. Some classes are deeper/better. This year’s top 5 would go ahead of every Top 5 from last year. Roy targets a certain guy (along) with some OADs. I don’t understand how someone can knock him for that. If the players were truly good/talented enough, they’d leave early like Bradley did last year.
You keep moving the goalposts.
So now it’s strictly about OADs? Of course we aren’t dealing with that, because Roy can’t land them while your coach is hauling them in by the bucket load. But you make it sound like Roy is hoarding OAD, which isn’t true. Guys may be ranked highly, but rankings don’t mean that much. If you’re good enough to go, you go. If that weren’t the case, Bradley would be here this year. Wright wouldn’t have left. Barnes and Marshall stay on. Marvin Williams.
No, I stated during the OAD era with top 10, top 15 like players. Out of the 3 titles Roy has, Roy had the most top 15 Hs recruits on a single team that were upperclassmen and it’s not even close.
Roy’s first two title came before the OAD era, so if you choose to include those, you have to include K’s as well. But ignoring those, Roy had one Top 15 player (Jackson) on last year’s team. Guys like Hicks, Meeks, Johnson, Pinson, were highly rated but not good enough to go pro early. Duke had their share of guys like that but they transferred out. Think about Gbinije, Semi, Jones, Jeter, etc. Those are the same type of guys that UNC kept, largely because Roy couldn’t land the elite talent.
It's just a foolish argument, though. It makes you sound like an out-of-touch UNC fan.
The notion that Roy holds kids back is almost as ridiculous as the notion that K doesn't care about his kids. The best part of the whole thing is that it's mostly lunatic adults who make these asinine statements.
I never stated Roy held kids back, you’re missing my entire point here. I’m simply stating Roy has benefited immensely from these top recruits staying 3 or 4 years, while other schools haven’t had this luxury during this time frame. I’m just stating the obvious and to be honest, you’re the one who sounds like an UNC fan.
Roy has has great success at UNC, as he should as its a great program....the hansbrough years......the barnes squad...and these last two seasons have been great with deep tourney runs
And Duke and Kentucky benefited by landing elite talent paired with some upper class studs.
What DJ and I are asking is, what is your point?
My point is simple, if you combine experience with top 15 talent, your chances of winning a title significantly increases. I’m not saying Roy sucks as a coach, but the fact remains, Roy has had more talent as upperclassmen than any schools during his title runs. Roy wasn’t winning titles when these type of players were staying 3 or 4 years at other schools.
What an inane argument. I swear some of the things posted here are so laughably asinine. Like, if it helps you sleep at night to try and justify why so and so team won and others didn’t, so be it, but it’s just complete ridiculousness.
Maybe I am missing something He had never said Roy was holding back players.He had simply said that Unc has had more more top fifteen players stay than any other school that I know of.Is that not a true statement.You seem to have to go out of your way to defend every statement from Ticket.He had said y’all are friends and I have had to defend some of my heel friends so I guess I understand that
It’s clearly the suggestion that Roy is holding them back, that’s pretty reasonable to infer that. Why else bring it up? It is also an extremely loose argument at best. Roy has won more because of holding back Top 10-15 talent....i mean come on what’s the difference between saying that and saying he’s the only one keeping them?
There are a lot of programs that can play the “what if so and so stayed” game and each and everyone of them think their what if scenario would have been best. What if tyus stayed. What if MKG or Brandon Knight stayed? What if Justin Jackson and TB stayed? And around and around we go. At the end of the day they didn’t and you move on. Roy has only won one title using the argument that Roy has held players back...sorry only one keeping them. Last year. Other than that 2005/09 you’re not looking at a chalk full of OADs leaving the cupboards dry across the board for other programs. His teams were just stacked those years.
If you don't have to attend class and get all kinds of impermissible benefits there is no incentive to leave school early. Many UNC players would have took a paycut to leave UNC for the pro's.
The elephant in the room for all Ol Roy's teams at UNC is "Cheating".
The elephant in the room for all Ol Roy's teams at UNC is "Cheating".
I agree with you and Jurkin on the basic premise Roy does seem to have the ability to hold on to his talent longer. Some of this could have something to do in the past w/the obviously VERY LOOSE classroom (or lack thereof) environment, and little perks like arranging the now infamous "job" for an ex tar heel's mom.
OFC
Right...
We all know easy classes, free mouth guards and a rental car are far more valuable than an NBA salary.
Makes perfect sense...
Not saying or inferring Roy is deliberately holding players back but the facts say that Unc has kept more top fifteen players than any other school.How is this an inflammatory or false statement.Imo this has been the major factor in their recent success
Trust me, it has nothing to do with ticket2ride or me defending him or the Heels. I dislike them as much as the next guy. But it doesn't mean I'm going to make up excuses in my head.
Roy missing on many of his top targets over the years has been a bit of a blessing in disguise for their program. Instead, they've landed many kids in the 30 to 50 range with a few top 20 kids sprinkled in there.
And as timo mentioned, you don't have to say Roy is holding guys back....but it's certainly been implied. We had Kyle Singler, a top five kid in his class, stay for four years, while the other four guys ranked in the top five with him were gone at least two years earlier, with three of them being one-and-done. I'd say that was a benefit for us that worked out quite nicely. Kyle didn't project in the NBA like Eric Gordon, Kevin Love or Derrick Rose. Same as how Justin Jackson, Isaiah Hicks and Theo Pinson didn't.
All guys aren't created equally. Tyus and Justise weren't projected draft picks at all going into their freshman season's, but they took advantage of their situation....much like Tony Bradley last season. Also, as has been pointed out, some of those top 30 to 50 guys we've landed have transferred out and left us thin in spots.
It's just a really silly argument, IMO.
The facts will also show that besides Duke and UK, UNC has landed more of those kids. Like I said in my post above....the 'fall' in UNC's recruiting wasn't as drastic as some would leave you to believe. They've had some really, really nice classes the last five or six years. They've just missed on their 'top' targets a lot during that time....but really, until their current crop of freshman, they've still consistently landed top 10 kind of classes.
The Holes have had better ncaa tourney success than Duke has the last 2 years. That's more the problem than anything else, imo. Would people care as much if they would have flamed out early? I want to beat them and go farther than them every season, but when that doesn't happen, and I'm mad as hell.
Let's beat them Saturday, win the acc and ncaa, then the grass will be a little greener.
What ever happened to that dude? I haven’t seen a thing about that since PJ left.
This is exactly right. The whole argument is blown out of proportion because of their success the last two years. But outside of that you can’t really make the same argument regarding the top 10-15. Because it’s not relevant. You have to have some luck to win it all as well and that is going untalked about. They should have lost to AR last year before we played in the 2nd round. They were beaten and bailed out. But like everything else, that’s just me trying to justify the fact that no matter what you say they still won it. Accept it and move on to this Saturday and just get it done.
He’s an academic advisor at unx now I heard.
Hey, neat how you tried to make each of those sound so tiny. Easy classes? How bout imaginary? How bout a A just for signing up? Free mouth guards? That wasn't the issue AT ALL. Endorsement money for mouthguards, kickbacks, Leslie Mcdonalds photos on the advertisements. A Rental car? I like how you make it sound like UNC rented a Ford Festiva for someone. Nah. Freshmen rolling around in Escalades, Camaros and brand new Tahoes. That's what we're talking about cuz.
Yeah, all that...
Throw in free beer and weed and all the sorority girls you can and it still doesn’t touch a NBA paycheck.
Stupid position, cuz.
I stand by my point.
I think this thread actually went somewhere, UNC has accepted the shift, They pawned off that whole "Carolina Way " ******** for as long as humanly possible while cheating more than any other university in the country. Now the position is yes , we cheat like hell and get away with it and who gives a ****, we're the champs ! Totally scabbed over the real rivalry we all once enjoyed so much.
Let me ask you an honest question and please, just try to play along.
Let's say that the FBI probe shows that pretty much every top 50 recruit was getting something. Maybe a few good apples passed on bennies, but in general serious money was paid to athletes. And let us pretend that say a few guys took what would be considered payments on the higher side, while guys from other Blue Bloods took some, but not as much.
What would your feelings be?
Oh BS.
First, you’re not cheating if you don’t break any rules and the academic “scandal” was proven to be fair play by the NCAA, proved your boy Jay Bilias right, too.
Second, the FBI is going to have something to say about who cheated more than any other school...
You guys can crybox all day about the disgrace you think UNC caused college basketball. Anyone who attended a D1 school and knew football or basketball players knows it’s absolutely laughable. But, hey, grab your UK and NCSU buddies and keep the myth going. I’m sure it helps you sleep better...
Now, wheels for heels was a disgrace and have never understood how it wasn’t a bigger deal than it was. I’ll give you that one.
You and DJ are assuming that I “implied” Roy was holding his players back. Once again, I stated Roy and UNC have “benefited” like no other coach and schools have, from multiple top 15 players staying in school as upperclassmen, for whatever reasons. You can’t ignore the fact this hasn’t benefited UNC and Roy. Once the landscape of college basketball changed to the OAD rule, Roy hasn’t experienced many players leaving his program at the rate of other colleges have. This is a big deal when combining talent and experience to win games and national titles. Now that you guys have brought it up, has Roy mislead his players with their draft projections??? Ultimately, it’s up to the players to make a sound decision when deciding to stay in college or to put their name in the NBA draft. However, coaches do have an impact on their decisions to a degree.
I'm literally pummeling your face with laughter right now. Wheels for Heels? i guess you should have given a few Tahoes to regular students, that woulda been fine as well then.
Roy has had 1 top 15 player in the OAD era stay for his Jr year, and that was Justin Jackson.
Pinson and Hicks were top fifteen.Berry was just outside of the top fifteen
Ol Roy telling them "well my contacts in the NBA tell me you need to stay here another year or two and that will help your draft status"
Anyone remember James Michael Mcadoo. Projected high lottery pick after freshman season.
Draft status dropped each year after till he finally bucked Roy and entered draft. Unfortunately by then he was a second round pick. Worked out ok for him for while. Sat on the end of Golden State Warriors bench. Never got the money he would have if had come out when his draft status was high.
Reggie Bullock also bucked Roy and turned pro after being told to stay. Bitter Roy went public and chastised kid for turning pro.
Every top 20 player in Justin Jackson class were drawing NBA checks year or two before he finally decided to enter draft.
Where there is smoke there is fire and there is something keeping these kids in Chapel Hill when they could be making NBA salaries. All kinds of inducements that UNC doesn't want public to know about.
yet they get lumped into the OAD numbers from other fans...that season Oak was the OAD player, we got a title and they had great seasons and cashed in....since Kyrie in 2011, Duke has averaged 1.4 OAD per season...exactly what I read they would want, 1 or 2 sprinkled w/ 3 and 4 year players, but we are a OAD factory????....and that 1.4 includes total surprises of Winslow, Jones, and Jackson from last season....my small rant..=)
Technically, Pinson was 17, Hicks 16 and Berry 27.
Ticket if you're asking me was 53 dollars as bad as 73,000 I'm gonna go with no. Did you catch the Boozer interview? He said several Universities offered him cars and cash, said he chose Duke for Duke, not kickbacks. Said k offered him nothing, even told him he'd have to earn his spot. But you don't believe that.