The rotation going forward

[Greene Rice FIG]

It just hasn't clicked for Jones yet, and his confidence in his shot seems way off. He's not just rimming out threes, but missing them badly. I agree he needs more time on the court to improve - actual game reps. We will need him and Hyatt to figure it out if we're going to be competitive down the stretch of the season.

Every day in practice Jones and Hyatt have the ability to improve and show the coaching staff what they can do. Letting them get better in games is a part of why we were so bad in the beginning of the year.

Pike wants to win just as much as the fans. Hyatt and Jones had the opportunity to shine in the past 2 games. It took them awhile to get off the bench. There is a reason for that. See sentence 1.

We beat Purdue when the coaching staff went all in on defense. It comes down to Paul OR Hyatt OR Jones. 2 of those guys can't be on the floor at the same time vs. most B1G teams. In the end vs. Purdue (and I think against most teams in crunch time) it was none of those 3.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I'm not talking about "major" minutes consistently, but they need to keep getting minutes on the court. There's no way we go through 19+ B1G games with just a 6-man rotation of Harper, Omoruyi, Baker, McConnell, Mulcahy, and Mag. Miller's being brought along slowly, but we will at the very least need an 8th - which will need to be either Hyatt or Jones.

And there will be games where we'll need to go deeper, whether it's due to foul trouble or injury, and Jones/Hyatt/Agee will need to play more significant minutes out of necessity. Pike's getting them minutes where he can so they'll be better prepared for those games - and the more minutes they get, hopefully the more things will start to slow down for them (both offensively and defensively).

I don't think we have a choice.

Leaving the 5 aside
Baker 34
Harper 34
Caleb 34
Paul 26
Mag 26
Miller 6

 

[RUChoppin]

Every day in practice Jones and Hyatt have the ability to improve and show the coaching staff what they can do. Letting them get better in games is a part of why we were so bad in the beginning of the year.

Pike wants to win just as much as the fans. Hyatt and Jones had the opportunity to shine in the past 2 games. It took them awhile to get off the bench. There is a reason for that. See sentence 1.

We beat Purdue when the coaching staff went all in on defense. It comes down to Paul OR Hyatt OR Jones. 2 of those guys can't be on the floor at the same time vs. most B1G teams. In the end vs. Purdue (and I think against most teams in crunch time) it was none of those 3.

Purdue's a perfect example, though - we had 12 guys see the floor. You can't play the teeth of the B1G schedule with just 6-7 guys.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The argument that can be made.......Hyatt and/or Jones has upside offensively over Paul and quite frankly Paul struggles on defense too.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Purdue's a perfect example, though - we had 12 guys see the floor. You can't play the teeth of the B1G schedule with just 6-7 guys.

I know.

In fairness 4 of those guys were trying to stop Williams. edey absolutely shredded wisconsin in the 2nd half last night (but they still lost)

 

[RUChoppin]

The argument that can be made.......Hyatt and/or Jones has upside offensively over Paul and quite frankly Paul struggles on defense too.

If you cut Paul's minutes, you need more from both of them.

While this is likely to tighten up as we hit the B1G, the breakdown so far has been:

32 - Harper
31 - Baker
30 - Mulcahy
28 - McConnell
26 - Omoruyi
17 - Hyatt
14 - Mag
13 - Jones
11 - Agee
10 - Miller

If you just look at the last 5 games:
30 - Harper
29 - McConnell
28 - Baker (in 3 games)
26 - Omoruyi
26 - Mulcahy
16 - Mag
12 - Jones
12 - Hyatt
11 - Miller
10 - Agee (in 3 games)

If you just look at the 5 major conference games
33 - Harper
30 - McConnell
30 - Baker (in 2 games)
28 - Mulcahy
25 - Omoruyi
17 - Mag
16 - Hyatt
13 - Jones
12 - Agee
10 - Palmquist (in 2 games)
9 - Miller (in 4 games)

It looks like Pike's settling in on Jones/Hyatt each seeing around 10-15 minutes

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Your analysis includes games where Baker's minutes have been available. VS. SHU when Baker came back Hyatt played 15 and Jones 2.

In the 1st half vs. CCSU I watched a lot of Hyatt on defense. At all times he was in control and knew exactly where his man was and was in the proper position at all times. I am guessing he will play tonight over Jones

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Your analysis includes games where Baker's minutes have been available. VS. SHU when Baker came back Hyatt played 15 and Jones 2.

In the 1st half vs. CCSU I watched a lot of Hyatt on defense. At all times he was in control and knew exactly where his man was and was in the proper position at all times. I am guessing he will play tonight over Jones

This. Also - Caleb played 32-36 minutes in all the recent major conference games. Illinois would’ve been the same if he didn’t unload the bench in garbage time.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

If you cut Paul's minutes, you need more from both of them.

While this is likely to tighten up as we hit the B1G, the breakdown so far has been:

32 - Harper
31 - Baker
30 - Mulcahy
28 - McConnell
26 - Omoruyi
17 - Hyatt
14 - Mag
13 - Jones
11 - Agee
10 - Miller

If you just look at the last 5 games:
30 - Harper
29 - McConnell
28 - Baker (in 3 games)
26 - Omoruyi
26 - Mulcahy
16 - Mag
12 - Jones
12 - Hyatt
11 - Miller
10 - Agee (in 3 games)

If you just look at the 5 major conference games
33 - Harper
30 - McConnell
30 - Baker (in 2 games)
28 - Mulcahy
25 - Omoruyi
17 - Mag
16 - Hyatt
13 - Jones
12 - Agee
10 - Palmquist (in 2 games)
9 - Miller (in 4 games)

It looks like Pike's settling in on Jones/Hyatt each seeing around 10-15 minutes

Jones average reflects a lot of garbage time minutes. If we have more games like Illinois, sure, he’ll get plenty of PT in the second half. Let’s hope not.

I don’t see him contributing 10ish meaningful minutes in a competitive BIg game too often this year. I hope Im wrong.

 

[NickRU714]

Isn't this all exactly what was discussed pre-season?
You can't laud "Rutgers has a seasoned experienced returning team" and not play your "experienced returning" players.

Remember this crazy thread: https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-starting-lineup-who-does-he-bump-out.220722/

This was always going to be a team led by RHJ/Baker/McConnell/Mulcahy/Clif getting most of the minutes.

 

[NickRU714]

Not to pat myself on the back but....I kind of nailed it with this post from the above thread.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...neup-who-does-he-bump-out.220722/post-5180889

"This should probably be it's own thread but I don't think all these minutes per game estimates are adding up.

200 total minutes per game
Remove 40 (Center - Clif/Reiber/Agee?)

160 min left:
Geo 32 (same as last year)
RHJ 31 (same as last year)

97 minutes left:
Mulcahy 27 (same as last year)
McConnell 23 (same as last year)

47 minutes left:
Jones
Miller
Hyatt
Agee
Oskar

Unless Caleb and Paul are getting their minutes cut not sure where all the minutes are going to come from."

 

[RUChoppin]

Your analysis includes games where Baker's minutes have been available. VS. SHU when Baker came back Hyatt played 15 and Jones 2.

In the 1st half vs. CCSU I watched a lot of Hyatt on defense. At all times he was in control and knew exactly where his man was and was in the proper position at all times. I am guessing he will play tonight over Jones

In the 8 games where Baker's been available:
33 - Harper
31 - Baker
29 - Mulcahy
27 - Omoruyi
26 - McConnell
19 - Hyatt
11 - Mag (in 7 games)
11 - Jones
10 - Miller (in 3 games)
10 - Agee (in 5 games)

In the 4 games without Baker:
32 - Harper
32 - McConnell
32 - Mulcahy
26 - Omoruyi
20 - Mag
19 - Jones
13 - Agee
12 - Hyatt
10 - Miller
9 - Palmquist

CCSU wasn't exactly a good game to evaluate given they were shorthanded and got their doors blown off. By the time Hyatt came in with 7:05 left in the 1st half, we were already up 17 points. Hopefully he's more comfortable in the defense than he was in the first handful of games.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

In the 8 games where Baker's been available:
33 - Harper
31 - Baker
29 - Mulcahy
27 - Omoruyi
26 - McConnell
19 - Hyatt
11 - Mag (in 7 games)
11 - Jones
10 - Miller (in 3 games)
10 - Agee (in 5 games)

In the 4 games without Baker:
32 - Harper
32 - McConnell
32 - Mulcahy
26 - Omoruyi
20 - Mag
19 - Jones
13 - Agee
12 - Hyatt
10 - Miller
9 - Palmquist

CCSU wasn't exactly a good game to evaluate given they were shorthanded and got their doors blown off. By the time Hyatt came in with 7:05 left in the 1st half, we were already up 17 points. Hopefully he's more comfortable in the defense than he was in the first handful of games.

Neither was Illinois. Much of Jones time in that one was garbage time.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Jones needs a breakout game in the worst way but jacking up 3s and missing isnt helping him stay on the court. Just cannot seem to be find any rhythm to get major minutes on a team where the minutes are certainly available

Jones is not ready. 10 mins per game seems right for this season. It would be one thing if he was shooting well but he isn’t. On top of that he doesn’t defend well and plays slow on both ends of the court. I think too many people assumed he would be great from day 1. He still needs to develop on both sides of the court.

 

[RUChoppin]

Neither was Illinois. Much of Jones time in that one was garbage time.

Agree, and I haven't been saying Jones is game ready right now to take on a larger load. But he won't become more game ready sitting on the bench - he needs minutes to improve, as Hyatt does. Not starter minutes, but enough minutes against real competition to start getting a feel for the pace of the game and how opposing teams work.

Hyatt is a bit more ready because of his time at LSU facing SEC teams, but he needs time to acclimate into a role within this team. Right now I'd hedge more toward Hyatt getting more minutes than Jones, but both need to see the floor when possible so they are ready to take on that high-minute game later in the season when someone in front of them is unable to go.

We have a starting five that's going to get the lion's share of the minutes, all seeing close to 30 per game (and some consistently 30+). At replacement guard, I'd say the order off the bench right now is probably Mag, Miller, Jones. At replacement forward, it's Mag then Hyatt. But I think Jones/Hyatt need to get at least 8-12 min a game wherever possible if they are going to improve as the season progresses.

 

[MV9000]

Jones lack of aggression bothers me. Kinda just waits and the second he has an inch fires up a shot. Doesn’t cut. Doesn’t drive with the ball. Really confused on him so far

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agree, and I haven't been saying Jones is game ready right now to take on a larger load. But he won't become more game ready sitting on the bench - he needs minutes to improve, as Hyatt does. Not starter minutes, but enough minutes against real competition to start getting a feel for the pace of the game and how opposing teams work.

Hyatt is a bit more ready because of his time at LSU facing SEC teams, but he needs time to acclimate into a role within this team. Right now I'd hedge more toward Hyatt getting more minutes than Jones, but both need to see the floor when possible so they are ready to take on that high-minute game later in the season when someone in front of them is unable to go.

We have a starting five that's going to get the lion's share of the minutes, all seeing close to 30 per game (and some consistently 30+). At replacement guard, I'd say the order off the bench right now is probably Mag, Miller, Jones. At replacement forward, it's Mag then Hyatt. But I think Jones/Hyatt need to get at least 8-12 min a game wherever possible if they are going to improve as the season progresses.

Oskar needs to improve. Reiber needs to inprove. Terry can use to improve.

should we play these guys too?

 

[RUChoppin]

Oskar needs to improve. Reiber needs to inprove. Terry can use to improve.

should we play these guys too?

We need a rotation of at least 8-9 guys to get through the rest of the season. There are 6-7 that we seem to have confidence in.... so two additional players need to improve enough to fill those last two slots. My vote is for Hyatt and Jones - if you think Palmquist and Reiber are the better bet, go with them.

It's likely that we have a game or two where we're down a player, either to an injury or illness. It's more than likely that we'll have some tightly called games where we'll be in foul trouble. There will be times this year that we need to lean on someone outside of our starters-plus-Mag to give us quality minutes, and the more spot minutes we can get that guy between now and then the better.

 

[Scangg]

Jones lack of aggression bothers me. Kinda just waits and the second he has an inch fires up a shot. Doesn’t cut. Doesn’t drive with the ball. Really confused on him so far

I'd like to see Jones slash to the lane more. He has rarely shown it so far but has flashed it a few times... especially with his shot off

 

[toby83]

I'd like to see Jones slash to the lane more. He has rarely shown it so far but has flashed it a few times... especially with his shot off

yes, exactly this. early on we sometimes saw it, drawing fouls, etc, that was one of the reasons was pumped about him, as not many others on the floor have that ability. it's not just about finishing when you have an athletic slasher, it creates offensive rebounds due to help/rotations , draw fouls, etc.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

We need a rotation of at least 8-9 guys to get through the rest of the season. There are 6-7 that we seem to have confidence in.... so two additional players need to improve enough to fill those last two slots. My vote is for Hyatt and Jones - if you think Palmquist and Reiber are the better bet, go with them.

It's likely that we have a game or two where we're down a player, either to an injury or illness. It's more than likely that we'll have some tightly called games where we'll be in foul trouble. There will be times this year that we need to lean on someone outside of our starters-plus-Mag to give us quality minutes, and the more spot minutes we can get that guy between now and then the better.

I hear what your saying but in practice the rotation will continue to be 8-9 guys as it’s been with those last guys coming in situationally based on match ups. Will have to involved a lot of coaching (I.e. Pike will look for opportunities where an opponent rotates in a weaker backcourt shooter for example). May see some offense / defense subbing especially at the end of the second quarter. I just don’t think see Pike letting Jones just play through it and figure out his defense - not this year. Hyatt can play more positions so he’ll get more minutws somewhat by default.

 

[Scangg]

yes, exactly this. early on we sometimes saw it, drawing fouls, etc, that was one of the reasons was pumped about him, as not many others on the floor have that ability. it's not just about finishing when you have an athletic slasher, it creates offensive rebounds due to help/rotations , draw fouls, etc.

Same page on this as those were my thoughts exactly.

With his height and length he has so many ways to get a shot off. The fact that he plays slower/smoother helps him be more under control when slashing too

One thought with him is maybe he got sick and it hit him hard when it was going through the team. He's already younger and slender trying to fill out that frame so he could have lost some weight and energy and working his way back.... at least he would have an excuse for his recent play

The most concerning issue with Jones for me is the complete lack of intensity. He just looks lethargic out there recently. The body language reminds me of when we would see pouty Mathis at times