The rotation going forward

[Degaz-RU]

We now have a 12-game sample size and we now know what we’ve got. It’s pretty clear the starters are:

- G Geo Baker
- G Caleb McConnell
- G Paul Mulcahy
- F Ron Harper, Jr.
- C Cliff Omoruyi

These starters need to play, collectively, about 140 minutes per game, leaving about 60 for the rest of the team. So what’s the backup rotation? Based on what I’ve observed, I think it needs to be:

- Mag - 18
- Hyatt - 14
- Agee/Palmquist/Reiber (in that order) - 10 (just to spell Cliff at C)
- Jones - 10
- Miller - 8

 

[zebnatto]

Pretty much w Degaz, above. My thoughts after the first five:

Mag: has intensity and agressiveness, a worthwhile recruit
Hyatt something hasn’t clicked for him here at RU, but only listed as a soph and can play at B1G level
Agee: haven’t seen enough
Palmquist: I think his shot will improve as he gets minutes and comfortable on the floor, tough to find the right position for him—not a good rebounder, not very quick
Reiber: if he wants college to be about basketball he’s got to drop down a couple of levels,
Jones: has to find his way in the college game; right now his lack of aggression and explosiveness are hurting him —do think he’ll figure it out;
Miller—who knows how he’ll develop but seems the kind of player you’d want coming off the bench

 

[Danprusa_4]

I have a good feeling Hyatt will come out with a huge performance In the next couple games and get out of whatever funk he’s in. Because he’s a great player and definitely Big10 level. He needs to get his confidence up.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I see 5 starters
Mag backing up 4 perimeters
A little Jalen
Whoever is best backing up 5 (no idea who)

 

[RAC’emUp]

Cliff has to play 35 minutes for us to win many more. A lot to ask but there is no choice that includes us winning.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

It’s even simpler ...without foul trouble

30 minutes each for the five starters
10 minutes for mag, Hyatt, Miller, Jones and Reiber/Agee combo

The foul trouble will extend rolls for mag to 15-20 min a game

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It’s even simpler ...without foul trouble

30 minutes each for the five starters
10 minutes for mag, Hyatt, Miller, Jones and Reiber/Agee combo

The foul trouble will extend rolls for mag to 15-20 min a game

In B1G most games we can’t play Hyatt and Jones

 

[Knightmoves]

I’m really surprised by Jones performance. He seems to hang out on the wing, doesn’t attack the basket and launches wayward long shots.

He has to be better than what we’ve seen so far.

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

In B1G most games we can’t play Hyatt and Jones

Why not Hyatt?
Jones will have more of an opportunity next year to get comfortable in the offense and improve his defense post Geo and Harper. Hopefully, Caleb is back next year.

 

[LOU-RU85]

I remember watching Jone’s tape and thinking he was very lax on defense. He played too far off his opponent as well. His shot looked pretty good. His defense still needs quite a bit of improvement. His help defense needs lots of help as well. That’s going to hold him back. He also needs to get to the basket more often. Lots to work on but there is potential there.

 

[RUPete]

I’m really surprised by Jones performance. He seems to hang out on the wing, doesn’t attack the basket and launches wayward long shots.

He has to be better than what we’ve seen so far.

In the first half last night there were positive signs. He tried to drive and get others involved. Had two really nice passes/assists and was set up for a couple of easy scores. Unfortunately, he reverted to hanging on the perimeter during the second half, but we may be able to attribute that to extended garbage time. He did have a great rebound and baseball pass late to set up Terry that didn’t work out.

 

[richthedentist]

In the first half last night there were positive signs. He tried to drive and get others involved. Had two really nice passes/assists and was set up for a couple of easy scores. Unfortunately, he reverted to hanging on the perimeter during the second half, but we may be able to attribute that to extended garbage time. He did have a great rebound and baseball pass late to set up Terry that didn’t work out.

His shot has been awful lately I really thought he was finally going to be our three point shooting threat

 

[Yeah Baby]

I have a good feeling Hyatt will come out with a huge performance In the next couple games and get out of whatever funk he’s in. Because he’s a great player and definitely Big10 level. He needs to get his confidence up.

He can fill the hoop and we will need him going forward. I like him and Mag the most of the bench players to get their minutes. Pike still likes Reiber so maybe he breaks out as well.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Ru

He can fill the hoop and we will need him going forward. I like him and Mag the most of the bench players to get their minutes. Pike still likes Reiber so maybe he breaks out as well.

what evidence do we have of this?

 

[Eagleton95.99]

We now have a 12-game sample size and we now know what we’ve got. It’s pretty clear the starters are:

- G Geo Baker
- G Caleb McConnell
- G Paul Mulcahy
- F Ron Harper, Jr.
- C Cliff Omoruyi

These starters need to play, collectively, about 140 minutes per game, leaving about 60 for the rest of the team. So what’s the backup rotation? Based on what I’ve observed, I think it needs to be:

- Mag - 18
- Hyatt - 14
- Agee/Palmquist/Reiber (in that order) - 10 (just to spell Cliff at C)
- Jones - 10
- Miller - 8

A little off topic from the OP, but looking at this...unfortunately things look kinda scary for next year.

 

[Danprusa_4]

He can fill the hoop and we will need him going forward. I like him and Mag the most of the bench players to get their minutes. Pike still likes Reiber so maybe he breaks out as well.

I’m hoping reiber does break out not with acne of course

 

[zebnatto]

p

A little off topic from the OP, but looking at this...unfortunately things look kinda scary for next year.

Looking only at the currently rostered players, I’d guess starters and most minutes for next year would b

Paul
Jaden
Mawat
Andre
Cliff
(Caleb, does he have eligibility left?)

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

A little off topic from the OP, but looking at this...unfortunately things look kinda scary for next year.

My initial take is we would be fine as long as we have Cliff as we can fill with the portal.

Starting to get concerned about next year (and beyond). There is still time, but it is starting to look like Jones is in the Duke 4 star pile and Hyatt be in the Kiss pile. Miller looks like a B1G player on defense and a walk on on offense. Mag looks the part, but I found it strange how Pike used him the last 2 games.

 

[NickRU714]

p

Looking only at the currently rostered players, I’d guess starters and most minutes for next year would b

Paul
Jaden
Mawat
Andre
Cliff
(Caleb, does he have eligibility left?)

Not to derail the thread and get into NBA draft waters but are we sure RHJ/Baker aren’t back next year?

Don’t they technically have another year because last year didn’t count for eligibility?

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Jones' main problem is a problem many freshmen deal with: he does not want to appear as a ballhog, and, therefore, defers to the upperclassmen. He has the ability to take the ball to the hole. Instead, he settles for quick 3-pointers often because he does not want to have the ball in his hands for a long period of time.

It's a personality thing. Some newcomers could not care less about their veteran teammates' feelings. Their mindset is "I'm going to get mine." Jaden does not think like that. He is a consummate teammate. More than anything, the coaches, and more importantly, the upperclassmen need to tell him it's OK to control the ball at times. It's what's best for the team. If Baker, RHJ, McConnell, and Mulcahy are not reminding him of this regularly, it is a failure on their part.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Not to derail the thread and get into NBA draft waters but are we sure RHJ/Baker aren’t back next year?

Don’t they technically have another year because last year didn’t count for eligibility?

RHJ can return for one more season if he wants. This is Geo's fifth and final season.

 

[RUChoppin]

Ru

what evidence do we have of this?

On a "per minute" basis this year, he's scored more than McConnell and Mulcahy, and slightly less than Mag (13.2 pts/40)

In the 5 games against major conference teams (Clemson, DePaul, Illinois, Purdue, SHU) he's done a touch worse (12.8 pts/40) but still ahead of McConnell and Mulcahy (and behind Mag).

His 3P% has dropped a bunch this year, though, from a not-very-good .259 at LSU to a very-bad .190 at RU. His 2P% also dropped from .529 at LSU to .447 at RU. Hope that's a funk he can break out of, and not just a result of playing in a different system with different teammates.

The bigger question is whether he can start providing better minutes on the defensive end.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

p

Looking only at the currently rostered players, I’d guess starters and most minutes for next year would b

Paul
Jaden
Mawat
Andre
Cliff
(Caleb, does he have eligibility left?)

Jones' main problem is a problem many freshmen deal with: he does not want to appear as a ballhog, and, therefore, defers to the upperclassmen. He has the ability to take the ball to the hole. Instead, he settles for quick 3-pointers often because he does not want to have the ball in his hands for a long period of time.

It's a personality thing. Some newcomers could not care less about their veteran teammates' feelings. Their mindset is "I'm going to get mine." Jaden does not think like that. He is a consummate teammate. More than anything, the coaches, and more importantly, the upperclassmen need to tell him it's OK to control the ball at times. It's what's best for the team. If Baker, RHJ, McConnell, and Mulcahy are not reminding him of this regularly, it is a failure on their part.

His main problem is his D is so bad he can’t be trusted on the floor. Anything else is secondary.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

On a "per minute" basis this year, he's scored more than McConnell and Mulcahy, and slightly less than Mag (13.2 pts/40)

In the 5 games against major conference teams (Clemson, DePaul, Illinois, Purdue, SHU) he's done a touch worse (12.8 pts/40) but still ahead of McConnell and Mulcahy (and behind Mag).

His 3P% has dropped a bunch this year, though, from a not-very-good .259 at LSU to a very-bad .190 at RU. His 2P% also dropped from .529 at LSU to .447 at RU. Hope that's a funk he can break out of, and not just a result of playing in a different system with different teammates.

The bigger question is whether he can start providing better minutes on the defensive end.

He is taking bad shots and making bad decisions.

 

[bac2therac]

Jones needs a breakout game in the worst way but jacking up 3s and missing isnt helping him stay on the court. Just cannot seem to be find any rhythm to get major minutes on a team where the minutes are certainly available

 

[RUChoppin]

He is taking bad shots and making bad decisions.

For as bad as he's been from 3, though, he's got company.

.207 - Jones (6/29)
.190 - Hyatt (4/21)
.150 - McConnell (3/20)

Overall: 13/70 (.186).... the rest of the team is shooting 53/146 (.363)

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

For as bad as he's been from 3, though, he's got company.

.207 - Jones (6/29)
.190 - Hyatt (4/21)
.150 - McConnell (3/20)

Overall: 13/70 (.186).... the rest of the team is shooting 53/146 (.363)

If we are brutally honest about our team.......

The squad that will be on the floor at crunch time most nights
Baker, Caleb, Mag, Ron and Cliff......

Only 2 of those 5 are 3 point shooters.

I have omitted Paul because i think most B1G teams will require us to field a better defensive lineup. I really don't see a path for Hyatt or Jones to get crunch time minutes unless they turn in to Reggie Miller

 

[Yeah Baby]

Ru

what evidence do we have of this?

Announcer in the last game said Pike talked him up unsolicited.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Announcer in the last game said Pike talked him up unsolicited.

Pike talked him up to me in June unsolicited.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

It is strange how bad or inaccurate fans takes are for players 10 to 12 games or based on limited minutes into a players careers.

We can rewind to the 1st 10 to 12 games of RHJ, Mathis, Caleb, Jacob as a 4th year junior transfera nd even Baker careers and the numbers or shooting percentage from 3 is ugly.

There are numbers and then there is the actual eye-test.....what do fans see or are fans watching the ball or are they watching what is really supposed to happen on offense and defense.

For Jones and Hyaty specifically....the larger question is, if Hyatt is 6'6 and Agee is kinda around 6'7.....and Hyatt has longer arms, stronger base and ability, do fans really believe Hyatt could not play up front and get rebounds??

Hyatt gobbled up 9 rebounds the other day in limited minutes.....

When we evaluate Jaden Jones, the talent and ability, footwork and release are in place.....the kid has a LOT of tools to his offensive arsenal. He isn't being showcased or has had literally no plays run for him, to get him shots.....yet fans are evaluating his 3 point shooting, which is outside of the primary goal of the offense.

The stuff about defense is also severely overblown......kids blow assignments on defense far less than just staying in front of your man......Jones and Hyatt are not going to improve defensively, by sitting next to Pike.....they need reps and consistent minutes, so they can possibly be considered consistent.

If you are looking at overall, skill, talent, diversification of offense, Jones and Hyatt are higher than what many fans realize. Both have post up games, mid range and have shown an ability to get to the FT line......

I remain uber confident that playing 4 games vs Clemson, Illinois, Seton Hall, Purdue is a more likely scenario, that you will get "upside" or improved play from Jones and Hyatt as the grind of the B1G starts. I am less confident that when a team needs a key rebound or basket, it is far less likely to ask Mag, Palmquist or Mulcahy to give you that basket/rebound, vs Jones and Hyatt IF you played all 3 players the same amount of minutes.

Asking players to be productive in limited time, isn't going to be a way to determine anything. But RU (if they are going to look to improve in January and February, are going to do so with bench productive minutes from Jones and Hyatt......there's no path for success that I can see happening, unless you get something from both players. I am always going to ride with what player has more abilities and upside over a more limited or less-skilled player.

 

[Danprusa_4]

It is strange how bad or inaccurate fans takes are for players 10 to 12 games or based on limited minutes into a players careers.

We can rewind to the 1st 10 to 12 games of RHJ, Mathis, Caleb, Jacob as a 4th year junior transfera nd even Baker careers and the numbers or shooting percentage from 3 is ugly.

There are numbers and then there is the actual eye-test.....what do fans see or are fans watching the ball or are they watching what is really supposed to happen on offense and defense.

For Jones and Hyaty specifically....the larger question is, if Hyatt is 6'6 and Agee is kinda around 6'7.....and Hyatt has longer arms, stronger base and ability, do fans really believe Hyatt could not play up front and get rebounds??

Hyatt gobbled up 9 rebounds the other day in limited minutes.....

When we evaluate Jaden Jones, the talent and ability, footwork and release are in place.....the kid has a LOT of tools to his offensive arsenal. He isn't being showcased or has had literally no plays run for him, to get him shots.....yet fans are evaluating his 3 point shooting, which is outside of the primary goal of the offense.

The stuff about defense is also severely overblown......kids blow assignments on defense far less than just staying in front of your man......Jones and Hyatt are not going to improve defensively, by sitting next to Pike.....they need reps and consistent minutes, so they can possibly be considered consistent.

If you are looking at overall, skill, talent, diversification of offense, Jones and Hyatt are higher than what many fans realize. Both have post up games, mid range and have shown an ability to get to the FT line......

I remain uber confident that playing 4 games vs Clemson, Illinois, Seton Hall, Purdue is a more likely scenario, that you will get "upside" or improved play from Jones and Hyatt as the grind of the B1G starts. I am less confident that when a team needs a key rebound or basket, it is far less likely to ask Mag, Palmquist or Mulcahy to give you that basket/rebound, vs Jones and Hyatt IF you played all 3 players the same amount of minutes.

Asking players to be productive in limited time, isn't going to be a way to determine anything. But RU (if they are going to look to improve in January and February, are going to do so with bench productive minutes from Jones and Hyatt......there's no path for success that I can see happening, unless you get something from both players. I am always going to ride with what player has more abilities and upside over a more limited or less-skilled player.

I do agree. And I’m guessing if they are to be as good as their stars show they will develop within the next two years after the baker era. Once they are allowed more minutes. But it could very possibly be that Jones and Agee are just busts.

 

[RUsojo]

Missed the last two games can anyone provide some insight who was handling the ball most some and least when Geo/McConnell/Paul played together? Thanks

 

[LOU-RU85]

It is strange how bad or inaccurate fans takes are for players 10 to 12 games or based on limited minutes into a players careers.

We can rewind to the 1st 10 to 12 games of RHJ, Mathis, Caleb, Jacob as a 4th year junior transfera nd even Baker careers and the numbers or shooting percentage from 3 is ugly.

There are numbers and then there is the actual eye-test.....what do fans see or are fans watching the ball or are they watching what is really supposed to happen on offense and defense.

For Jones and Hyaty specifically....the larger question is, if Hyatt is 6'6 and Agee is kinda around 6'7.....and Hyatt has longer arms, stronger base and ability, do fans really believe Hyatt could not play up front and get rebounds??

Hyatt gobbled up 9 rebounds the other day in limited minutes.....

When we evaluate Jaden Jones, the talent and ability, footwork and release are in place.....the kid has a LOT of tools to his offensive arsenal. He isn't being showcased or has had literally no plays run for him, to get him shots.....yet fans are evaluating his 3 point shooting, which is outside of the primary goal of the offense.

The stuff about defense is also severely overblown......kids blow assignments on defense far less than just staying in front of your man......Jones and Hyatt are not going to improve defensively, by sitting next to Pike.....they need reps and consistent minutes, so they can possibly be considered consistent.

If you are looking at overall, skill, talent, diversification of offense, Jones and Hyatt are higher than what many fans realize. Both have post up games, mid range and have shown an ability to get to the FT line......

I remain uber confident that playing 4 games vs Clemson, Illinois, Seton Hall, Purdue is a more likely scenario, that you will get "upside" or improved play from Jones and Hyatt as the grind of the B1G starts. I am less confident that when a team needs a key rebound or basket, it is far less likely to ask Mag, Palmquist or Mulcahy to give you that basket/rebound, vs Jones and Hyatt IF you played all 3 players the same amount of minutes.

Asking players to be productive in limited time, isn't going to be a way to determine anything. But RU (if they are going to look to improve in January and February, are going to do so with bench productive minutes from Jones and Hyatt......there's no path for success that I can see happening, unless you get something from both players. I am always going to ride with what player has more abilities and upside over a more limited or less-skilled player.

Hawk - We will have to agree to disagree about Jones on defense. I have not seen the intensity on defense that he should be exhibiting. He never gets a charge. He sluffs to far off his guy and often loses his man. I’m not saying he can’t improve but I have watched several games now and his HS tape and I see a kid that has the skills but is not there yet.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Missed the last two games can anyone provide some insight who was handling the ball most some and least when Geo/McConnell/Paul played together? Thanks

Maine was kind of a combo. CC a complete waste of energy to analyze. Pike basically treated it like a scrimmage. CC was missing multiple starters due to Covid protocols. The game wasn’t as close as the final. We played walk ons and a deep bench the final 10+ minutes to prevent it from being record breaking.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I do agree. And I’m guessing if they are to be as good as their stars show they will develop within the next two years after the baker era. Once they are allowed more minutes. But it could very possibly be that Jones and Agee are just busts.

The veteran guys mentioned all looked much better on defense as frosh. We actually had a decent defensive unit those years with those guys playing a ton. If Jones played major minutes our defense (ranked Kenpom 72 right now) would be a lot worse.

I do agree with the comment that Hyatt probably can’t be worse than Agee’s been at the 5. Might try him there.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I am the try Hyatt at 5 camp.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

For as bad as he's been from 3, though, he's got company.

.207 - Jones (6/29)
.190 - Hyatt (4/21)
.150 - McConnell (3/20)

Overall: 13/70 (.186).... the rest of the team is shooting 53/146 (.363)

Ok, but considering Caleb is playing for his defense more so than his offense - these stats don’t exactly help the case made that Jones can “fill the hoop”, not even relatively speaking. He’s made 3 more threes than Caleb all season despite 9 more attempts in a lot less time on the floor (including 1-6 vs. the CC walk ons).

 

[RUChoppin]

It is strange how bad or inaccurate fans takes are for players 10 to 12 games or based on limited minutes into a players careers.

We can rewind to the 1st 10 to 12 games of RHJ, Mathis, Caleb, Jacob as a 4th year junior transfera nd even Baker careers and the numbers or shooting percentage from 3 is ugly.

There are numbers and then there is the actual eye-test.....what do fans see or are fans watching the ball or are they watching what is really supposed to happen on offense and defense.

For Jones and Hyaty specifically....the larger question is, if Hyatt is 6'6 and Agee is kinda around 6'7.....and Hyatt has longer arms, stronger base and ability, do fans really believe Hyatt could not play up front and get rebounds??

Hyatt gobbled up 9 rebounds the other day in limited minutes.....

When we evaluate Jaden Jones, the talent and ability, footwork and release are in place.....the kid has a LOT of tools to his offensive arsenal. He isn't being showcased or has had literally no plays run for him, to get him shots.....yet fans are evaluating his 3 point shooting, which is outside of the primary goal of the offense.

The stuff about defense is also severely overblown......kids blow assignments on defense far less than just staying in front of your man......Jones and Hyatt are not going to improve defensively, by sitting next to Pike.....they need reps and consistent minutes, so they can possibly be considered consistent.

If you are looking at overall, skill, talent, diversification of offense, Jones and Hyatt are higher than what many fans realize. Both have post up games, mid range and have shown an ability to get to the FT line......

I remain uber confident that playing 4 games vs Clemson, Illinois, Seton Hall, Purdue is a more likely scenario, that you will get "upside" or improved play from Jones and Hyatt as the grind of the B1G starts. I am less confident that when a team needs a key rebound or basket, it is far less likely to ask Mag, Palmquist or Mulcahy to give you that basket/rebound, vs Jones and Hyatt IF you played all 3 players the same amount of minutes.

Asking players to be productive in limited time, isn't going to be a way to determine anything. But RU (if they are going to look to improve in January and February, are going to do so with bench productive minutes from Jones and Hyatt......there's no path for success that I can see happening, unless you get something from both players. I am always going to ride with what player has more abilities and upside over a more limited or less-skilled player.

It just hasn't clicked for Jones yet, and his confidence in his shot seems way off. He's not just rimming out threes, but missing them badly. I agree he needs more time on the court to improve - actual game reps. We will need him and Hyatt to figure it out if we're going to be competitive down the stretch of the season.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It just hasn't clicked for Jones yet, and his confidence in his shot seems way off. He's not just rimming out threes, but missing them badly. I agree he needs more time on the court to improve - actual game reps. We will need him and Hyatt to figure it out if we're going to be competitive down the stretch of the season.

What your saying isn’t going to happen because of what Green said. They will only get major minute perimeter reps in BIG play if Pike gives up on the season (which could happen at some point).

Even if they start making more shots - neither plays servicable enough perimeter defense to give us a chance to win even if they start making more shots than they are making now. Hyatt can secure some minutes shifting to the 4-5 on defense. His perimeter defense has been disappointing.

 

[RUChoppin]

What your saying isn’t going to happen because of what Green said. They will only get major minute perimeter reps in BIG play if Pike gives up on the season (which could happen at some point).

Even if they start making more shots - neither plays servicable enough perimeter defense to give us a chance to win even if they start making more shots than they are making now. Hyatt can secure some minutes shifting to the 4-5 on defense. His perimeter defense has been disappointing.

I'm not talking about "major" minutes consistently, but they need to keep getting minutes on the court. There's no way we go through 19+ B1G games with just a 6-man rotation of Harper, Omoruyi, Baker, McConnell, Mulcahy, and Mag. Miller's being brought along slowly, but we will at the very least need an 8th - which will need to be either Hyatt or Jones.

And there will be games where we'll need to go deeper, whether it's due to foul trouble or injury, and Jones/Hyatt/Agee will need to play more significant minutes out of necessity. Pike's getting them minutes where he can so they'll be better prepared for those games - and the more minutes they get, hopefully the more things will start to slow down for them (both offensively and defensively).