The over and back call
- Thread starter Catfanlou_rivals54997
- Start date
I missed that one. He took like 5 little steps and no walk. Yet we catch the ball with no established pivot foot and get called for a walk when starting our drive. Happens every game and usually multiple times a game.
Most ******** call of the game. Congrats Cats for battling around some lousy officiating.
What didn’t I get, I think we were the last to touch the ball knocking it into the back court where Nick touched it. If the Texas Tech player touched it last then it was a bad call. I don’t think they did.
First, it was a bad call because of the TT deflection, and lack of possession. That being said, a back court violation, when it's a real thing, only requires the ball to break the plane, Nick's feet in the air wouldn't matter.
A
anon_013cn8yrfncx2
Guest
I was wrong. It was Hagans who got possession, went up into the air with it, and passed it to SEstina but it was knocked loose and then Maxey made a swipe at it and then knocked it to Nick in the back court.
"A pass or any other loose ball in the
front court that is deflected by a defensive player, which causes the ball to go into the backcourt
may be recovered by either team even if the offense was last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.”
EVEN. IF. THE. OFFENSE. WAS. THE. LAST. TO. TOUCH. THE. BALL.
in these videos the ref is always looking right at it too. he’s literally looking at his feet.
This. Nick had not established himself across mid court. However, possession was not established. The correct call was none at all.
How can you quote the actual rule and literally argue against what it says??
It doesn't matter if he touched it. Possession of the ball was never established.
possession is irrelevant, as many others have said
the ball went into, or towards anyway, the backcourt in a loose ball situation following a deflection by the defense on a pass attempt. This situation cannot result in a backcourt violation. It doesn't matter if, after the initial deflection, it is deflected again by an offensive player, it's still a loose ball stemming from the original touch by the defensive player.
Ironically this is not as bad a call as the backcourt violation against SC when Hagans lost the ball and made an incredibly smart play by not touching it until the defender dived after it, and the ref still called it. The moral is: they're all terrible.
the ball went into, or towards anyway, the backcourt in a loose ball situation following a deflection by the defense on a pass attempt. This situation cannot result in a backcourt violation. It doesn't matter if, after the initial deflection, it is deflected again by an offensive player, it's still a loose ball stemming from the original touch by the defensive player.
Ironically this is not as bad a call as the backcourt violation against SC when Hagans lost the ball and made an incredibly smart play by not touching it until the defender dived after it, and the ref still called it. The moral is: they're all terrible.
No one ever had control of the ball both teams were fighting to get the ball should not have been an over and back.
Let’s just say the refs lost complete control of the game and their minds in OT.
From this, to trying to foul out Maxey prematurely, to Tech getting a rebound off a FT, shot clock starting at 30, going to 28, then skipping to 20 like it should have started at, then going down to 18 before Tech calls a timeout. Shot clock should have been changed to 16 as the refs went to the monitor, but they left it at 18 for some insane reason.
Ended up not mattering as Tech shot it way too early, but those two extra seconds we could have had on the game clock would have been handy if we needed to get a bucket to tie it.
From this, to trying to foul out Maxey prematurely, to Tech getting a rebound off a FT, shot clock starting at 30, going to 28, then skipping to 20 like it should have started at, then going down to 18 before Tech calls a timeout. Shot clock should have been changed to 16 as the refs went to the monitor, but they left it at 18 for some insane reason.
Ended up not mattering as Tech shot it way too early, but those two extra seconds we could have had on the game clock would have been handy if we needed to get a bucket to tie it.
I watched that play literally about 30 times in slow mo. Their guy missed it initially. Then when he rolled over the split second before Hagans grabbed it he touched it. Hagans was watching intently hoping he would. Then he grabbed it. Watch the fans right there too. They knew he touched it.
That is not correct. Maxey touched the ball last before Nick grabbed it in the air.
Lou, I agree with you about last night.
However, in SC on the slow mo replay it appears the Cock never touched the ball so it was indeed backcourt on Hagans.
It's simple.. the refs were looking for a reason to call any type of foul/violation as soon as we took control... and giving TT the benefit of the doubt on a tons of plays when they could be called for a foul/violation
blows my mind the SEC doesn't try to defend us since we are their elite basketball program. We get screwed in SEC play - screwed once we get past the sweet 16.. you would think they would want us to win so we can get a high seed and make a deep run every season. Blue blood or not we get the a bad whistle most of the time... It's like the refs want the home crowd to go home happy and give the other team their signature win.
blows my mind the SEC doesn't try to defend us since we are their elite basketball program. We get screwed in SEC play - screwed once we get past the sweet 16.. you would think they would want us to win so we can get a high seed and make a deep run every season. Blue blood or not we get the a bad whistle most of the time... It's like the refs want the home crowd to go home happy and give the other team their signature win.
Hagans had possession, then we were the last ones to “tip” it into the backcourt, where nick then touched it (he hadn’t crossed so don’t matter if he was in the air or not). Simple call
How many times we have to say this. The rule isn’t who touched it last. The rule specifically says it isn’t a violation even if the offensive player touches it last before going into backcourt.
Doesn’t matter that we were the last one to tip it. It was deflected by defense, possession never reestablished, so no call.
First time I got to see the play. Possession was never established by either team after it was tipped, and as the rule says, without possession, it doesn’t matter who deflects it across the half court line. It was simply a scramble for a loose ball. Was definitely NOT over and back. My completely amateur opinion proves it.
Did you read the actual rule that was stated here several times and posted early in this very thread.
It explains very clearly why you’re not correct.
Hagans “HAD” possession. Then, nobody had possession. If nobody has possession there is no grounds for an over and back.
Yes, the whole question here is possession. It was a backcourt violation if UK truly had possession in the front court. They did at one point there. Hagans possessed the ball and tried to make a pass. But then the ball was tipped into the air again and Maxey tipped it back. That is not possession. So, loose ball and no possession means no back court violation.
Originally I thought Hagans had possession, but watching the replay above I don't think he did. But I still question why, as I said in an earlier post, he just didn't come down with the ball and begin to dribble...didn't look like any reason to panic and toss the ball to Nate. Maybe just got caught up in the moment and panicked.
Yep, this is the rule. Possession is the entire issue. Did UK have possession? No, the ball was being batted around. Hagans possessed the ball but then it got batted loose. Maxey's touch wasn't possession.
The only way the over and back call could have been correct is if they ruled Maxey’s tip established possession. I don’t think a tip is possession.
The dude just quoted from the rule book. I’m gonna go with his explanation.
Agree 100%. Nick's reaction prompted the call. The refs figured SOMEONE on the court had to know the rules.
You're simply wrong. From the HS rulebook, which is the same for this section as the college rule.
Rule 9-9.
A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to backcourt.
So....1. Hagans clearly had player control (and thus team control) in our frontcourt, and attempted to pass to Sestina when it got deflected. It got batted around and it appeared Maxey batted it to Richards who still had backcourt status while in the air jumping from the backcourt.
For people who say well it was a loose ball so there was no "possession" by UK after the deflection....that's wrong. Basketball rules fundamental # 1 says "While the ball remains live, a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control (Hagans) unless it was a try or tap for a goal." Clearly Texas Tech never gain possesion of the ball during that scrum.
So the only way the officials could have been wrong on this call was if it was last touched by Tech after Maxey batted it underhanded to Richards. Doesn't appear that was the case to me, but another angle might show something different.
When the ball got batted by Tech, we lost possession according to the rules. You see it all the time. A defensive player tips tee ball into the backcourt but the offense gets it back; no call. That doesn’t change if it also touches an offensive player’s hand after being tipped. It still went to the backcourt because of the tip.
Nope. The rulebook states that a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control. That would be UK is this scenario. The over and back rule is still applicable.
Nope. Read the rule quoted on page one. If the defense tips it, the offense may retrieve it in the backcourt, REGARDLESS OF WHO WAS THE LAST TEAM TO TOUCH THE BALL.
So once it was tipped, Kentucky could retrieve it IN THE BACKCOURT, even after touching it. This was a rule change for the 2017-18 season. Here’s a link to a list of those rule changes that year.
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017MBB_2017_Rules_Change_Chart_20171005.pdf
The refs blew it.
I'll ask a college official I know about this NCAA change...the way I read it is if the defense was responsible for the deflection and it bounced off one of our guys hands/body, then we can retrieve it. But since Maxey was responsible for the deflection, not the defense, it would be Tech's ball.
Well obviously college officials aren’t aware of the rule change [laughing]
But the defense deflected it away from Sestina before Maxey tipped it. That’s the point. Maxey tipping the ball, in my eyes, did not establish possession.