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The NJ Warriors JUCO FB Program

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MJL_52

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Are these the same guys that we're running the program at Mercer County a few years back? Seemed shady
 
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KnightFan

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It's really a bit odd.. one game scheduled, only Demarest named on site, 4K to play..

Needs more details
 
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RUJohnny99

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apparently one of their main facilities is a 1999 Florida State national championship ring
 
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madchuck

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How did Demerest go from coaching D1 football to coaching non-accredited junior college football?
 
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tico brown

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madchuck said:
How did Demerest go from coaching D1 football to coaching non-accredited junior college football?
Click to expand...
This sounds like what has become of youth football: One coach who thinks he's better than someone else (or thinks he can make some money some way, some how) leaves a well established program and starts their own. Sometimes it works, 85% of the time, it clutters up everything. The result is what you see today in youth, aau, high school, charter schools, catholic schools, and now JUCO programs.
 
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JoeRU0304

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tico brown said:
This sounds like what has become of youth football: One coach who thinks he's better than someone else (or thinks he can make some money some way, some how) leaves a well established program and starts their own. Sometimes it works, 85% of the time, it clutters up everything. The result is what you see today in youth, aau, high school, charter schools, catholic schools, and now JUCO programs.
Click to expand...

See it a lot with youth baseball too; someone gets their horns twisted from 1 travel team then goes and starts their own, second verse same as the first. I've heard of towns with populations of like 20-22k having 3 different travel teams for the same age group.


Joe P.
 
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tico brown

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JoeRU0304 said:
See it a lot with youth baseball too; someone gets their horns twisted from 1 travel team then goes and starts their own, second verse same as the first. I've heard of towns with populations of like 20-22k having 3 different travel teams for the same age group.


Joe P.
Click to expand...
Very true. Drive 5 miles from Camden down White Horse Pike and Black Horse Pike, you have these youth football teams:
-Camden
-Centerville
-Staley Park
-Collingswood
-Oaklyn
-Haddon
-Haddonfield
-Haddon Heights
-Lawnside
-Bellmawr
 
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PSU_Nut_rivals17625

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Unfortunately a bunch of kids will be enticed and conned into playing thinking they are going to get a D1 scholarship. All they will do is add more debt when they graduate college. This reminds me of all the tech schools that popped up in the early 2000s promising huge salaries when in reality most were unemployed and just had a huge mound of debt. Unfortunately these type of programs prey on the uneducated who do not know how things work. I hope the community colleges warn students not to go in thinking they are going to get college scholarships. If you had that potential you could be playing and going to school for almost nothing at a real juco.
 
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StyleKnight

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PSU_Nut said:
Unfortunately a bunch of kids will be enticed and conned into playing thinking they are going to get a D1 scholarship. All they will do is add more debt when they graduate college. This reminds me of all the tech schools that popped up in the early 2000s promising huge salaries when in reality most were unemployed and just had a huge mound of debt. Unfortunately these type of programs prey on the uneducated who do not know how things work. I hope the community colleges warn students not to go in thinking they are going to get college scholarships. If you had that potential you could be playing and going to school for almost nothing at a real juco.
Click to expand...
Do Juco's typically charge? How much?
 
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MJL_52

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tico brown said:
JoeRU0304 said:
See it a lot with youth baseball too; someone gets their horns twisted from 1 travel team then goes and starts their own, second verse same as the first. I've heard of towns with populations of like 20-22k having 3 different travel teams for the same age group.


Joe P.
Click to expand...
Very true. Drive 5 miles from Camden down White Horse Pike and Black Horse Pike, you have these youth football teams:
-Camden
-Centerville
-Staley Park
-Collingswood
-Oaklyn
-Haddon
-Haddonfield
-Haddon Heights
-Lawnside
-Bellmawr
Click to expand...


It's really a shame for the Camden teams. Instead of 1 league there's 3 and it waters down the rest. I officiated a series of games there 2 seasons ago and they had to forfeit because only 8'kids showed up,
 
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RBNY87

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I agree, maybe there is a little false dreams being peddled. But if this is what it takes to get a player to keep going to school, then it is not the worst thing in the world Also, there will be players getting money to go to D2 and maybe at NAIA and some will continue playing at D3's. If a player is a stud, he can possibly play one year and move on as well depending if he qualifies. I am sure they will schedule other games. ASA is a top program so that could get ugly.
 
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madchuck

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We actually have a player on our team who played for one of these community college teams. Jerome Washington is on the Gattaca website.
 
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kupuna133

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I can't imagine this ending well. It's hard enough managing the logistics when everyone is on the same campus. It is going to be nearly impossible to manage when student athletes are spread throughout the state. I also can't imagine this passing the NCAA clearinghouse.
 
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madchuck

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kupuna133 said:
I can't imagine this ending well. It's hard enough managing the logistics when everyone is on the same campus. It is going to be nearly impossible to manage when student athletes are spread throughout the state. I also can't imagine this passing the NCAA clearinghouse.
Click to expand...

As long as your in a community college, the credits will count. Because it has nothing to do with the NCAA and they players aren't getting paid, it counts for nothing. It's like playing recreation.
 
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kupuna133

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madchuck said:
As long as your in a community college, the credits will count. Because it has nothing to do with the NCAA and they players aren't getting paid, it counts for nothing. It's like playing recreation.
Click to expand...
It's not like you're playing recreation. There are eligibility requirements and compliance issues when you are playing a JUCO, post grad prep and NCAA schedule.
https://www.warriorsnj.com/about

This is not like pick up basketball at the barn. These athletes will be burning eligibility.
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers

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kupuna133 said:
It's not like you're playing recreation. There are eligibility requirements and compliance issues when you are playing a JUCO, post grad prep and NCAA schedule.
https://www.warriorsnj.com/about

This is not like pick up basketball at the barn. These athletes will be burning eligibility.
Click to expand...
That link seems to make it pretty clear who their target is..

"The goal is for players to enhance skills for college recruitment while raising academic performance to get to the next level."

So they want kids that might have interest from colleges for schollies.. but not the grades. I have to wonder what the demographics are for that... kids that can't minimally qualify for NCAA schollies but can afford to pay $2K for county college AND another $2K to play football.

If I had to guess, I'd say there will be some waivers of the $2K for kids who really will get schollies if they get the right grades.. then a bunch of kids playing $2K who have zero shot. I just hope they don't take loans for that $2K. If they want to pay to play, fine... it could helps a few in the long run to have this... and if it gets them interested in actually attending a JUCO and working at getting grades up, that's good too.

But if the bulk of them are going to be "sold" on this plan when they really have no shot...
 
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RUfinal4

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Not sure of the rules for Juco football. I thought you need to be affiliated with an actual school. This sounds like a for profit venture. Even if it is officially a non-profit it sounds like it is not affiliated with the actual schools but is using a certain rule where all players are Juco students so they won't lose eligibility while the money collected pays for facilities and the coaching salaries.

It may be a similar concept as travel baseball. Looking at a couple of the travel baseball teams for kids it seems there is probably some costs to the parents. For the NJ Marlins it seems the team fees are $1200 a season so if there are 12 players it is $100 a kid per season. Then you need to buy uniforms ($350), pay for indoor practice time, and equipment. I would guess it can run anywhere from $550 to $2k a year.

http://www.njmarlins.com/proshop/nj-marlins-team-payments/
 
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tico brown

Heisman
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Besides the obvious answer (MONEY), is there another reason why JUCO football never took off in NO County Colleges like Camden, Gloucester, Essex, etc? You would think that there would be a need for a program or two for NJ HS athletes to play for a JUCO in state and get their grades right or to adjust to college life in which they probably couldn't at a 4 year school instead of going to Lackawana CC in Pa, Nassau CC on Long Island, or elsewhere.
 
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kupuna133

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GoodOl'Rutgers said:
That link seems to make it pretty clear who their target is..

"The goal is for players to enhance skills for college recruitment while raising academic performance to get to the next level."

So they want kids that might have interest from colleges for schollies.. but not the grades. I have to wonder what the demographics are for that... kids that can't minimally qualify for NCAA schollies but can afford to pay $2K for county college AND another $2K to play football.

If I had to guess, I'd say there will be some waivers of the $2K for kids who really will get schollies if they get the right grades.. then a bunch of kids playing $2K who have zero shot. I just hope they don't take loans for that $2K. If they want to pay to play, fine... it could helps a few in the long run to have this... and if it gets them interested in actually attending a JUCO and working at getting grades up, that's good too.

But if the bulk of them are going to be "sold" on this plan when they really have no shot...
Click to expand...
If a college has an interest in someone but not the grades, that college will work with various established JUCO's Preps etc,, to get that person eligible. Think Fork Union under Schiano. This is not an established JUCO this is a for profit business. I cannot imagine they will have the resources to manage the risks associated with the academic or athletic interests of their athletes. These kids can be scattered throughout the state in multiple schools.

As I said in an earlier post I do not see this ending well. There are way too many moving parts.
 
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tico brown

Heisman
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MJL_52 said:
It's really a shame for the Camden teams. Instead of 1 league there's 3 and it waters down the rest. I officiated a series of games there 2 seasons ago and they had to forfeit because only 8'kids showed up,
Click to expand...
I know one guy who runs one of those Camden programs broke away from another one for whatever reason. Not sure if the heart is in the right place or not but the kids who play for that program would be better off playing for one of the other programs... That is of course is the other two listed are legit for the kids or are trophy collectors.

BTW, forgot about another Camden program up by the 36th Street Riverline station. So what's worse: FOUR programs in Camden or 11 programs within 10-15 miles of each other?
 
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madchuck

Heisman
Oct 22, 2016
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kupuna133 said:
It's not like you're playing recreation. There are eligibility requirements and compliance issues when you are playing a JUCO, post grad prep and NCAA schedule.
https://www.warriorsnj.com/about

This is not like pick up basketball at the barn. These athletes will be burning eligibility.
Click to expand...

http://www.gattacanj.com/#njcca

It's the same thing as Gattaca. They'll be losing eligibility simply by being registered in community college. They are not part of the NCAA.
 
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JoeRU0304

Heisman
Nov 9, 2005
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PSU_Nut said:
Unfortunately a bunch of kids will be enticed and conned into playing thinking they are going to get a D1 scholarship. All they will do is add more debt when they graduate college. This reminds me of all the tech schools that popped up in the early 2000s promising huge salaries when in reality most were unemployed and just had a huge mound of debt. Unfortunately these type of programs prey on the uneducated who do not know how things work. I hope the community colleges warn students not to go in thinking they are going to get college scholarships. If you had that potential you could be playing and going to school for almost nothing at a real juco.
Click to expand...

I think that's a good comparison; it does seem like the JC football version of the 'Corinthian Colleges', where a number of the schools had legitimate accreditation on the whole, but a number of their 'degree/certificate' programs were greatly overexaggerated in how much 'weight' they carried in their specific fields, with a number of employers in said fields not even really recognizing them as having value. I remember reading articles about people who basically took out high-interest $17-24k loans for what amounted to be quasi continuing-education seminar certificates that didn't help them whatsoever in the job market.


Joe P.
 
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kupuna133

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madchuck said:
http://www.gattacanj.com/#njcca

It's the same thing as Gattaca. They'll be losing eligibility simply by being registered in community college. They are not part of the NCAA.
Click to expand...
That was my point from the get go. It was you that said it does not count and it was nothing more than recreation. If they are playing NCAA JV teams. NJCAA (JUCO) and post grad prep teams there will be additional compliance and eligibility issues. Gattaca is not exactly a good example. They were an epic failure due to the exact logistical nightmares I discussed. They couldn't finish a season and had multiple students evicted from their apartments due tonon payment.
 
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JoeRU0304

Heisman
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106,467
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tico brown said:
I know one guy who runs one of those Camden programs broke away from another one for whatever reason. Not sure if the heart is in the right place or not but the kids who play for that program would be better off playing for one of the other programs... That is of course is the other two listed are legit for the kids or are trophy collectors.

BTW, forgot about another Camden program up by the 36th Street Riverline station. So what's worse: FOUR programs in Camden or 11 programs within 10-15 miles of each other?
Click to expand...

Are those all Pop Warner or just local league-affiliated teams? I'm not sure of Camden's population but 4 teams sounds like oversaturation. In the 80's/90's Paterson had 1 team that I remember, the Jr State Colts. By the mid-2000's or so they had 4 (Cardinals, Bulldogs, Colts and Steelers); now I think they're back down to 2.

...I also love your term 'trophy collectors'. Sadly, my generation (GenX) really has done a bit of a number on youth sports in trying to make it all about us/ the adults and not kid/player development.


Joe P.
 
D

dollarbill

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PSU_Nut said:
Unfortunately a bunch of kids will be enticed and conned into playing thinking they are going to get a D1 scholarship. All they will do is add more debt when they graduate college. This reminds me of all the tech schools that popped up in the early 2000s promising huge salaries when in reality most were unemployed and just had a huge mound of debt. Unfortunately these type of programs prey on the uneducated who do not know how things work. I hope the community colleges warn students not to go in thinking they are going to get college scholarships. If you had that potential you could be playing and going to school for almost nothing at a real juco.
Click to expand...
How about the athlete who cannot make it into a D1 program but decides to go to junior college instead of working for Amazon? How about when he finds out that he is guaranteed to be accepted into a four year New Jersey state college if he maintains a certain grade point average? How about graduating from that four year college with a lot less debt? $$$$
 
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JoeRU0304

Heisman
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106,467
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...and what happens if you get hurt? If you go to a standard JC program you'll at least have some medical/ training staff and some form of school coverage I would think. What if you break an ankle or blow out a knee doing this?


Joe P.
 
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madchuck

Heisman
Oct 22, 2016
21,643
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JoeRU0304 said:
...and what happens if you get hurt? If you go to a standard JC program you'll at least have some medical/ training staff and some form of school coverage I would think. What if you break an ankle or blow out a knee doing this?


Joe P.
Click to expand...

They 100% wouldnt' be covered.
 
T

tico brown

Heisman
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44,205
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JoeRU0304 said:
Are those all Pop Warner or just local league-affiliated teams? I'm not sure of Camden's population but 4 teams sounds like oversaturation. In the 80's/90's Paterson had 1 team that I remember, the Jr State Colts. By the mid-2000's or so they had 4 (Cardinals, Bulldogs, Colts and Steelers); now I think they're back down to 2.

...I also love your term 'trophy collectors'. Sadly, my generation (GenX) really has done a bit of a number on youth sports in trying to make it all about us/ the adults and not kid/player development.


Joe P.
Click to expand...
It's been a while since I've been down there but I still do follow them on FB (friends with a couple). I also got relatives down there telling what's going on.
-Staley Park Panthers, South Jersey Independent
-Whitman Park Tigers, South Jersey Elite
-Centerville Simbas, they were in PW buy don't know what league they're in now
-Camden Bulldogs (by 36th St Riverline), Tri County.

Just remembered that a FIFTH team popped up on FB in 2016, Camden Raiders out of Fairview. Don't know what league they're in but if the other four didn't define oversaturation of Camden with 76k residents, this fifth one should have.
 
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