The Kentucky effect

[Wall2Boogie]

when cal got here he brought the idea of recruiting the best of the best. If you're were to be recruited by cal you're on the fast track to the NBA. Cal has changed the landscape of college basketball but it comes with repercussions. He resurrected our program which is great but it comes with a harsh reality. An argument can be made that each year we have had atleast one player that had no business going to the NBA but because we are Kentucky they are looked at differently. Point is when you're at Kentucky it's frowned upon if you stay more than one year and you're a 5 star player or high 4 star.

2009-2010-orton(not a cal recruit, but at Kentucky should of came back)
Bledsoe-debatable
2010-2011-liggins-another guy who would of benefitted from one more year
2011-2012-Teague, lamb
2012-2013-Goodwin
2013-2014-james young
2014-2015-Lyles dakari the twins(one more year they could of been first round players
2015-2016-ulis(loved him but any other team he would be a 3-4 yr player skal of course
2016-2017-briscoe(had no business leaving) hump unexpectedly

Now we get to this year and you have a guy who can't shoot in Vanderbilt a guy who doesn't know what a team is in hami sga who's had a few good games but could benefit big time by staying one more year and a slew of others thinking the NBA is right around the corner. Truth is knox is the only sure fire nba player the others will be in the gleague and unemployed in 3 years.

It's great being the best of the best but it's a curse as well. We sell kids on being the fast track to the NBA but it bites us in the *** since most aren't ready but because they have Kentucky on the front of their jerseys they feel as though they are head and shoulders above the rest. I know cal is selling his brand to them but he will need to change up his recruiting pitch a little bit if we hope to keep some players after each year for the rest of his tenure. Puke is killing us in that since they can get 5 star players to stay 3-4 years. Had a Gayson allen came to uk he would of left after winning a title that's where cal is hurting. It almost seems like he forces them out the door in fear he will have a situation like Dejuan Wagner. I think that weighs heavy on cals mind when he recruits these guys.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Rebuttal:

Orton was a turd who likely wouldn't have been allowed to return.

Liggins wasn't going to magically develop a jumper in year four, just another year of lost earning potential.

Teague, probably, but got picked in round one coming off a great NCAA run. Lamb wasn't going to magically become more athletic with another year in school.

Goodwin: First rounder, wasn't going develop a jumper if he stayed 4 years

Young was picked 17th, wouldn't have meshed well with the 15 team.

Lyles was picked first round; agree on Dakari; both twins weren't going to get quicker or more athletic

Ulis wasn't gonna grow. 5'9" PGs don't get picked high ever. Agree on Skal but his family's finances played a large role in his decision

Briscoe: Openly hated school, wouldn't have improved his J if he stay 44 more years and never will play in the NBA. Hump was thousands of miles from home and landed a paying gig in his native land.

But to follow the recent narrative every player leaves early every year and isn't ready. All 13 of em.

 

[wildcat_bigd]

A couple English majors here

 

[Wall2Boogie]

Rebuttal:

Orton was a turd who likely wouldn't have been allowed to return.

Liggins wasn't going to magically develop a jumper in year four, just another year of lost earning potential.

Teague, probably, but got picked in round one coming off a great NCAA run. Lamb wasn't going to magically become more athletic with another year in school.

Goodwin: First rounder, wasn't going develop a jumper if he stayed 4 years

Young was picked 17th, wouldn't have meshed well with the 15 team.

Lyles was picked first round; agree on Dakari; both twins weren't going to get quicker or more athletic

Ulis wasn't gonna grow. 5'9" PGs don't get picked high ever. Agree on Skal but his family's finances played a large role in his decision

Briscoe: Openly hated school, wouldn't have improved his J if he stay 44 more years and never will play in the NBA. Hump was thousands of miles from home and landed a paying gig in his native land.

But to follow the recent narrative every player leaves early every year and isn't ready. All 13 of em.

I'm not saying they would of drastically improved for their NBA benefit but they could of improved for sake of the team

 

[z71sab]

I'm not saying they would of drastically improved for their NBA benefit but they could of improved for sake of the team

You still don't get it. What if the kids came back and got hurt or got worse like grayson Allen has at duke. You have to let them go. You act like coach cal makes them go. the kids and there're families are ultimately the one who makes the final choice. Your being selfish as hell. You don't know any of the kids financial troubles or other things, I hate seeing them leave early when we know there're not ready but they have to do what's best for them not us fans who want them to stay in college for our own personal reasons, I am thankful our coach is the way he is.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Player bashing is so much fun. [sick]

 

[UK_fan_41102]

How many of us at 19-20 years old, would turn down millions to play the sport we love, just to stay in college and play it for free?

 

[Calsarmy]

Rebuttal:

Orton was a turd who likely wouldn't have been allowed to return.

Liggins wasn't going to magically develop a jumper in year four, just another year of lost earning potential.

Teague, probably, but got picked in round one coming off a great NCAA run. Lamb wasn't going to magically become more athletic with another year in school.

Goodwin: First rounder, wasn't going develop a jumper if he stayed 4 years

Young was picked 17th, wouldn't have meshed well with the 15 team.

Lyles was picked first round; agree on Dakari; both twins weren't going to get quicker or more athletic

Ulis wasn't gonna grow. 5'9" PGs don't get picked high ever. Agree on Skal but his family's finances played a large role in his decision

Briscoe: Openly hated school, wouldn't have improved his J if he stay 44 more years and never will play in the NBA. Hump was thousands of miles from home and landed a paying gig in his native land.

But to follow the recent narrative every player leaves early every year and isn't ready. All 13 of em.

Seriously, ALL NEEDED TO LEAVE! I don't think a serious bb fan agrees with that. With that logic 4-5 need to leave at years end.
I want to see kids play FOR Kentucky not the name on the BACK of the jersey

 

[kevcat]

How many of us at 19-20 years old, would turn down millions to play the sport we love, just to stay in college and play it for free?

Well, they’re not exactly doing it for free.

They’re getting tuition paid for, which the last time I checked was very expensive.

They’re also not forking out a dime with food, housing, books, transportation.

They’re also getting National exposure to showcase their abilities.

They also have all of their medical needs taken care of. Plus, they have trainers, workout rooms,
and tutors to help them.

They also receive $2500.00 a month stipend.

That’s quite a bit.

Believe it or not, some players actually stay more than 1 year because they’re enjoying being young and experiencing college life.

 

[blubo]

Well, they’re not exactly doing it for free.

They’re getting tuition paid for, which the last time I checked was very expensive.

They’re also not forking out a dime with food, housing, books, transportation.

They’re also getting National exposure to showcase their abilities.

They also have all of their medical needs taken care of. Plus, they have trainers, workout rooms,
and tutors to help them.

They also receive $2500.00 a month stipend.

That’s quite a bit.

Believe it or not, some players actually stay more than 1 year because they’re enjoying being young and experiencing college life.

$2500 a month stipend? i didn’t realize they received that.

 

[UK_fan_41102]

Well, they’re not exactly doing it for free.

They’re getting tuition paid for, which the last time I checked was very expensive.

They’re also not forking out a dime with food, housing, books, transportation.

They’re also getting National exposure to showcase their abilities.

They also have all of their medical needs taken care of. Plus, they have trainers, workout rooms,
and tutors to help them.

They also receive $2500.00 a month stipend.

That’s quite a bit.

Believe it or not, some players actually stay more than 1 year because they’re enjoying being young and experiencing college life.

The whole package you just stated can easily be worth $125,000 per year. Yes it's not free, but how much of it makes it to the players pocket? Also, some players do enjoy being young and experiencing college life, while some couldn't care less about college and would like to start making money asap. Now the first pick of the NBA Draft gets $15,366,120 guaranteed the first 2 years and $33,727,701/4 years, while the last pick gets $3,049,680/2 years and $7,570,779/4. So again, which option are MOST 19-20 year olds picking?

 

[kevcat]

$2500 a month stipend? i didn’t realize they received that.

I looked it up last year and that’s about where it was.
Actually, it ranges from $2000,00 to $5000.00 per month.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/article86062792.html

 

[TankedCat]

I think there is definitely a mentality among the fans and players that at this point in the season - whats the saying? They aren't Freshmen anymore. A players UK career is 75% over in early February and is doesn't really matter if they come back or not. The assumption at the start of the year is if you are a highly touted 5 star then they are going pro - that is the Kentucky effect.

We say it, we market it, we use it as a recruiting pitch.

So the angst comes in when at the 3/4 mark of the year (or in this case even later) and the team is trending NIT more than it is Final Four.

Failure takes on a whole new meaning when the mentality is you get 1 shot to get it right instead of 4

We have to own the Kentucky effect. That's why the whole "we're so young" routine has fans rolling their eyes in February.

 

[brianpoe]

Orton was a genius for going with that bum knee no one new about.

Every kid that landed a 1st Round Guarantee did a smart thing and became millionaires.

Why do people think that a 1st Rounder will get better staying in school with a 20 hour practice rule and 8 hour offseason practice rule rather than 24/7 without classes and multiple pro coaches working with them?

I'd like for them all to come back but this argument makes zero sense.

 

[RDCat07]

most of these kids also have people whispering in their ear, their entire life, about how great they are and how they should get paid. most of these players come from poor family background. some of them more than likely can't cut it academically for longer than a year. and honestly once some of them get here and their bubble is burst about how good they really are they no longer want to be here...dakari comes to mind he improved and leaned out his sophomore year but he just seemed like he didn't want to be here any more

 

[ib4ky_rivals111873]

Well, they’re not exactly doing it for free.

They’re getting tuition paid for, which the last time I checked was very expensive.

They’re also not forking out a dime with food, housing, books, transportation.

They’re also getting National exposure to showcase their abilities.

They also have all of their medical needs taken care of. Plus, they have trainers, workout rooms,
and tutors to help them.

They also receive $2500.00 a month stipend.

That’s quite a bit.

Believe it or not, some players actually stay more than 1 year because they’re enjoying being young and experiencing college life.

$2500 a month stipend? i didn’t realize they received that.

Player "total yearly" (9-month seasonal payout) stipends for SEC football players ranges by college from a low of $392 up to $630 PER MONTH:
https://www.seccountry.com/sec/how-...tipends-are-impacting-sec-football-recruiting

 

[mustnotsleepnow]

2009-2010-orton(not a cal recruit, but at Kentucky should of came back)
Bledsoe-debatable
2010-2011-liggins-another guy who would of benefitted from one more year
2011-2012-Teague, lamb
2012-2013-Goodwin
2013-2014-james young
2014-2015-Lyles dakari the twins(one more year they could of been first round players
2015-2016-ulis(loved him but any other team he would be a 3-4 yr player skal of course
2016-2017-briscoe(had no business leaving) hump unexpectedly

Orton- if he came back, he makes zero money. His knee injury would've almost assured that.
Bledsoe- Uhhhh...picked 18th and has started his entire career (I think).
Liggins- One of my favorite players ever. Would have LOVED to have him another year. But he is what he is. A lanky, hard nose defender with no jump shot or much offense.
Teague/Lamb- Teague for sure should've come back. He left on a high note which I can't blame him for, but he could have improved his draft stock with another year. Not sure if Lamb could have ever improved his stock. Couldn't have improved his shot, I know that much. I'll give you debatable on that one.
Young- Definitely could have improved his stock, though it's hard to blame him as he was picked 17th overall. I think Young's work ethic is his issue (no personal insight, just opinion). He has all the tools. Just can't seem to put it together.
Lyles- Could he have used another year? I don't know. He got drafted pretty high and is coming into his own in the NBA.
Dakari- Should have came back.
Twins- Like Liggins, they are what they are. Not overly athletic, not great shooters, etc. Great college players, though.
Ulis- From everything I've read, the Suns love him. I don't know how he could have improved with another year. He was great at UK. His height will always hold him down since he can't jump out of the gym.
Skal- Should he have come back? I don't know. We saw almost no improvement from him. Plus, his family was dirt poor, I believe. Always felt like his game was made for the NBA instead of college. I think his current play confirms that.
Briscoe- Could have stayed to work on his shot, for sure. But 99% of this board loathed him (not me) and would still hate him if he returned.
Humph- That was a head scratcher. Maybe he was homesick and just wanted to make money while playing at home. Can't blame him for that.

The only ones that you could say for sure, in my opinion, that should have returned are Teague, Dakari and Briscoe.

Selfishly, I would have loved for every single one of these guys to return...but it's a different world these days.

 

[BBUK_anon]

I guess Cal needs to tweak his recruiting after all. He needs to figure out how to determine the size of the fight in the Cat and not the size of the Cat in the fight...jmusao

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

The issue is not the guys who go top 25, but the guys like Teague, Lamb, Harrisons, Dakari, Briscoe all leaving...

What is the NIT season if we have a veteran title winning back court in Teague and Lamb? Maybe not a title, but I'd say we make the tournament and advance...as for Teague and Lamb I think being the primary guys and getting the stats increases their stock...

Do we lose to IU in the second round with Dakari and Twins. We lost that game because Ulis and Murray were gassed from carrying the load the entire season, and just didn't have the legs down the stretch. The Twins would have shouldered some of the load throughout the year and that game. Their length would have limited Yogi. Dakari would have done some work against Bryant.

After that I'll take Ulis, Murray, Twin, Twin, and DJ against UNC, ND, and Nova...

In all of these discussions about players leaving and what could be done I don't know that any rational person expects the sure fire top 25 picks to come back. It's the dudes who by all accounts are between late first round and undrafted. These are the guys who can make a big difference the following season.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

These players made their own decisions knowing the ramifications of them. You don't think Cal didn't tell probably a quarter/half of these guys they should come back to school? Sounds like ignoring reality to me.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

Orton- if he came back, he makes zero money. His knee injury would've almost assured that.
Bledsoe- Uhhhh...picked 18th and has started his entire career (I think).
Liggins- One of my favorite players ever. Would have LOVED to have him another year. But he is what he is. A lanky, hard nose defender with no jump shot or much offense.
Teague/Lamb- Teague for sure should've come back. He left on a high note which I can't blame him for, but he could have improved his draft stock with another year. Not sure if Lamb could have ever improved his stock. Couldn't have improved his shot, I know that much. I'll give you debatable on that one.
Young- Definitely could have improved his stock, though it's hard to blame him as he was picked 17th overall. I think Young's work ethic is his issue (no personal insight, just opinion). He has all the tools. Just can't seem to put it together.
Lyles- Could he have used another year? I don't know. He got drafted pretty high and is coming into his own in the NBA.
Dakari- Should have came back.
Twins- Like Liggins, they are what they are. Not overly athletic, not great shooters, etc. Great college players, though.
Ulis- From everything I've read, the Suns love him. I don't know how he could have improved with another year. He was great at UK. His height will always hold him down since he can't jump out of the gym.
Skal- Should he have come back? I don't know. We saw almost no improvement from him. Plus, his family was dirt poor, I believe. Always felt like his game was made for the NBA instead of college. I think his current play confirms that.
Briscoe- Could have stayed to work on his shot, for sure. But 99% of this board loathed him (not me) and would still hate him if he returned.
Humph- That was a head scratcher. Maybe he was homesick and just wanted to make money while playing at home. Can't blame him for that.

The only ones that you could say for sure, in my opinion, that should have returned are Teague, Dakari and Briscoe.

Selfishly, I would have loved for every single one of these guys to return...but it's a different world these days.

My only question would be if these guys played on Pepperdine would they be first round picks? I'm not saying most of them wouldn't, but playing at Kentucky definitely helps.

You still don't get it. What if the kids came back and got hurt or got worse like grayson Allen has at duke. You have to let them go. You act like coach cal makes them go. the kids and there're families are ultimately the one who makes the final choice. Your being selfish as hell. You don't know any of the kids financial troubles or other things, I hate seeing them leave early when we know there're not ready but they have to do what's best for them not us fans who want them to stay in college for our own personal reasons, I am thankful our coach is the way he is.

did you not read what I said? I specifically mentioned that with Dejuan Wagner. I don't think cal forces them out at all. I think he's worried something could happen to them and they wouldn't be able to help their families. Like Dejuan Wagner. My point is I think some of the players feel they are 100% ready to go and with cals pitch about Kentucky not being for everyone they don't see any of their flaws. Diallo is a good example I think we can all agree he's not nba ready, and the same time we know he will leave anyway.

 

[mustnotsleepnow]

My only question would be if these guys played on Pepperdine would they be first round picks? I'm not saying most of them wouldn't, but playing at Kentucky definitely helps.

Most likely not. But you can say that about a lot of schools (UNC, Duke, AZ, etc).

 

[BlueMadison]

Glad there was no OAD during the Issel era......

 

[GonzoCat90]

Finally, a place to debate who should have stayed and who should have gone pro.

 

[brianpoe]

Glad there was no OAD during the Issel era......

I believe it was a OAS back then... one and sit because you are not eligible until you are a sophomore....

 

[jc2010]

I don't blame any player for leaving if they are a first round pick, the problem with the Kentucky Effect is morons in the NBA drafting some of our players that are real head scratchers