They have similar height, and similar speed, but I think that trying to compare the two is a bit of a reach. They play the game a different way. They have different personalities. Instead of describing Fox like Wall, I would describe him as a 6'3" Tyler Ulis. Can anyone else see that? Does anyone else think that Fox and Wall are not as similar as they are made out to be?
The Fox/Wall comparisons don't seem right
- Thread starter UK3K_rivals379203
- Start date
It's hard to say because this team doesn't have a player down low that's as good as Cousins but Wall didn't have the shooters that Fox does or a Briscoe to take the pressure off. Bledsoe played a similar role as Briscoe but he wasn't as good with the ball or the decision maker Briscoe is.
I think Fox is more of a scorer than Wall was. Wall a better play maker.
I think Fox is more of a scorer than Wall was. Wall a better play maker.
I like the comparison, personally. They have multiple similarities. They're similar height, weight, and length. They're both scoring point guards. They're both high flyers, great athletes. Both have excellent court vision and find their teammates and set them up to succeed. They have similar strengths and weaknesses. (Comparing freshman in college Wall to freshman in college Fox) I see more similarities than differences.
I wish people would stop trying to compare people to Tyler Ulis.
He was an All American as a sophomore.. who was 5'9. And 150 lbs. And not unusually athletic.
This was only possible because he is a damn basketball maestro - a prodigy.
He made hardly any mistakes over the entire season. Cal didn't have to coach him after a certain point.
We've had guys who have all the physical gifts, guys who play really hard, guys who have built a flawless shooting stroke.. we've had all manners of players at Kentucky.
But Tyler? Tyler is a basketball genius. I genuinely believe he is a Kidd/Nash/Magic/Lebron level basketball mind but in a 5'9, not super athletic body.
Fox has excellent physical gifts. He plays really, really hard and he's eminently coachable. He has good basketball instincts.
But the difference between Tyler's basketball mind and someone with "good basketball instincts" is like the difference between Garry Kasparov and the old man who plays chess at the park every weekend.
He was an All American as a sophomore.. who was 5'9. And 150 lbs. And not unusually athletic.
This was only possible because he is a damn basketball maestro - a prodigy.
He made hardly any mistakes over the entire season. Cal didn't have to coach him after a certain point.
We've had guys who have all the physical gifts, guys who play really hard, guys who have built a flawless shooting stroke.. we've had all manners of players at Kentucky.
But Tyler? Tyler is a basketball genius. I genuinely believe he is a Kidd/Nash/Magic/Lebron level basketball mind but in a 5'9, not super athletic body.
Fox has excellent physical gifts. He plays really, really hard and he's eminently coachable. He has good basketball instincts.
But the difference between Tyler's basketball mind and someone with "good basketball instincts" is like the difference between Garry Kasparov and the old man who plays chess at the park every weekend.
I'm saving my Wall comparison until he can prove it. Don't get me wrong though. I love Fox game and think he has potential to be great. Possibly even better than Wall in college. We just haven't saw enough of him.
i agree. i'd add that fox i think could be the better pure pg, although no one has worked harder than wall at this, fox i think has slightly more natural game than wall. his transition to a predominant facilitator has been impressive. he plays a little more lanky too which is good basketball attribute. his arms seem longer. idk the stats.
wall is naturally stronger and will, while in his prime, be the better open court and half court finisher imo. you have to absorb real blows going to the rim in the nba and wall has the body to handle it night after night.
they both have the moves and can lead by being unselfish. wall was born to be a franchise player. fox may end up in that same category. he needs to get ahead snd start on shooting improvement. wall has had to really dedicate himself on that, which is a sign of leadership too.
Fox has a little more hair on his head. Wall wouldn't pull off the blow out or the braided look.
Until I see a Siva > Fox post lets not compare the two
Until I see a Siva > Fox post lets not compare the two
of course this is similar to the basis of my "pound for pound" argument. not saying you agree with that, but the point is you can't describe his talent for the game one way or with stats. you have to add up the hundreds of things he does through the course of a game to make his team effective and to get enough separation to be able to execute. he's as good a natural pg as i've ever seen. i'm not the least bit ashamed to say it, and although i can appreciate an underdog, i don't think i liked a player just because he was short since i was eight years old. he's just that talented at basketball imo.
very few players can play so naturally (instinctively, on the fly) and see things ahead of time. when you think about what that means lol. it's the larry bird thing. people aren't supposed to be able to keep that state of mind running up and down the basketball court for 40 minutes. but he can.
Fox looks to me like if Brandon Knight woke up and had 90% of John Wall's speed and lost 25% off his shot. Fox is super fast, but plays much more upright like Knight. Wall seemed to be able to dig through a drive whereas Fox kind of tries to extend over it. He's a better passer and a worse shooter than Knight.
He's no Ulis. No one is.
He's no Ulis. No one is.
Wall was a rare breed of player. He had speed and raw athleticism I have never seen from a 18 year old. He had the handles with it too. He played so fast that he was really turnover prone though. Wall was just phenomenal to watch and he was a crowd pleaser.
Fox has speed that is a notch below Wall and he is not as explosive of a leaper but not many are as explosive as John was. He plays more under control to the nth degree though. He's going to turn it over at a much lower rate than John.
Fox is probably ahead of wall defensively too because John used his athleticism to make things happen on defense. Fox has good footwork and makes good decisions.
Both are tremendous players but there aren't players every year or every five years that can match what a guy like John could do. Fox is still awesome, I love his game. But John wall by all means should've been player of the year over Evan turner that year imo.
Fox has speed that is a notch below Wall and he is not as explosive of a leaper but not many are as explosive as John was. He plays more under control to the nth degree though. He's going to turn it over at a much lower rate than John.
Fox is probably ahead of wall defensively too because John used his athleticism to make things happen on defense. Fox has good footwork and makes good decisions.
Both are tremendous players but there aren't players every year or every five years that can match what a guy like John could do. Fox is still awesome, I love his game. But John wall by all means should've been player of the year over Evan turner that year imo.
While I don't think the Wall/Fox comparison is 100% spot on, it's the best comparison available when comparing UK guards under Cal IMO. Both blazing fast, both incredible athletes, both have the "Wow!" factor when watching them play. Wall was more explosive, Fox is a better defender and more under control.
If Fox finds his jumper, he is going to be some kind of special. I think that day is coming. I know his percentages aren't good, but his shot doesn't look bad and there's nothing there that would lead you to believe he's a long-term bad shooter. I don't feel like it's a bad shot when he shoots an open 3 like I did with Briscoe last year. His 15 foot pullup jumper looks nice, and that's a tough shot pulling up off the dribble at the speed he's moving. I think his shot comes around this year, and when it does the trio of him, Monk, and Briscoe is a serious problem for opponents.
If Fox finds his jumper, he is going to be some kind of special. I think that day is coming. I know his percentages aren't good, but his shot doesn't look bad and there's nothing there that would lead you to believe he's a long-term bad shooter. I don't feel like it's a bad shot when he shoots an open 3 like I did with Briscoe last year. His 15 foot pullup jumper looks nice, and that's a tough shot pulling up off the dribble at the speed he's moving. I think his shot comes around this year, and when it does the trio of him, Monk, and Briscoe is a serious problem for opponents.
I honestly think Fox has more long term potential than Wall does. Wall is and will always be one of my favorite players but Fox has the potential to be one of the best PG in the league if he keeps progressing. Good think about this debate is both of them are Products of Kentucky basketball. Glad to have both of them associated with our program.
I think this is the best response - the comparison seemed a little off to me, because you can see other traits better compared to other players, but Wall was really, overall, the closest.
Mostly what Fox needs to learn - as most freshmen do - is how to NOT be "the guy" He doesn't have to carry this team, like in HS or AAU, it's a group effort. His instincts are there, you can see it when he quits thinking so much.
Huh!!!
I know it's early, but as a team we have made 28% of our 3's, we only have 2 players (1 regular) making over 25%, and only 3 total making over 17%.
In 2010 Bledsoe made 38% (about where I expect Monk to finish). We had 5 other guys (Patterson, Dodson, Miller, Wall, & Liggins) all making 32%-35%, not strong %'s but enough to make a team guard them.
Speaking of comparisons, last night watching SKJ I was reminded of (ironically with SKJ being from Chapel Hill) former/recent UNC player Brice Johnson.
The way Fox has been shooting/scoring in the halfcourt he's looking like Elfrid Payton. Defensive minded/pass first PG who's offense is a struggle in HC.
It's a real concern for his draft outlook. Still shooting under 40% & we've faced mainly stiffs.
It's a real concern for his draft outlook. Still shooting under 40% & we've faced mainly stiffs.
A lot of guys don't come from high school and shoot a good % when they come into college. Booker and Murray are two recent examples of that. Their true %'s should be evident in SEC play.
Briscoe is Briscoe at this point. Great player, bad shooter. Let's see how Mulder's, Monk's, Fox's, and WG's %s even out by then.
Briscoe is Briscoe at this point. Great player, bad shooter. Let's see how Mulder's, Monk's, Fox's, and WG's %s even out by then.
I do not understand how anyone can watch these 2 play and NOT come away thinking Fox is faster in ever single facet of the game. To me, it's not even really close. Wall did not and does not have a very quick first step, takes him a while to get going and then he becomes fast. Ive always thought his speed was vastly overrated. Fox is the overall faster guard Cal has has since D Rose. Brandon Knight and Marquis Teague, Eric Bledsoe also had quicker first steps than Wall. Wall was only really fast once he got going....
I agree with this post. I think Fox is a better shooter and plays a little more under control. Love Fox's game.
FOX better then Wall at this point in their careers. Hell Wall even said so himself.
i'm biggest on fox's bandwagon. he is going to be a star. but i don't believe that for a second. the same wall who dismantled unc and uconn almost single handedly his freshman year?
The threads that were posted here on rafters about wall were epic. What wall did to uconn was great! it would have been nice to of had fox that year vs w.v.
Dude Wall is not faster than Fox in any way, shape or form. So you might be smoking something.
Fox seems to have better quickness in terms of stopping, starting and maneuvering through traffic with the ball. Wall was not a very good ball handler while at UK and made too many turnovers for a player with his athletic ability. Wall had better straight line speed and while not a great outside shooter appears at this point to be better than Fox whose outside shooting has been "Briscoesque" thus far this season.
The comparisons are mainly due to the unique speed and quickness both players possess, Fox may have an edge imo.
Wall was faster and flashier. And he had that clutch gene.
Fox is quicker and way more under control. Way better on the ball defender. Better shooter. Better distributor. And he's longer.
Fox has the better potential. He's a noticeably better college pg, and we're just a few games in. Think of where he'll be by seasons end.
Fox is quicker and way more under control. Way better on the ball defender. Better shooter. Better distributor. And he's longer.
Fox has the better potential. He's a noticeably better college pg, and we're just a few games in. Think of where he'll be by seasons end.
