Who kept telling me nothing was wrong with our offense the whole year? Supported by statistics. Pom Pom ?? or whatever you call it . Honest question. Lol I forgot. I want to say it was a couple people.
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The Carters
- Thread starter IPSYCHOSIS
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I’m with you on that . Gotta talk about something. Especially me on this dumb disability and nothing to do!!!! Lol
It could be a combination of Bagley as well as our guards who got beat off the drive in man to man. He was our main interior defender.
As much time as I spend going to google and typing in Duke news I could keep the threads full, but I don’t want to annoy any further lol
To your first question, yes I think we go at least as far without him. Roles would have been better defined. Give me the team that was already committed to go to the Domincan Republic, and let them play together all season. Our bench would have been solid, and contributed more intangible things. Remember K's comments after the 17 South Carolina loss about developing the bench. The addition of Bagley complicated things. Don't confuse that thinking I don't think he is talented.
Who's to say Carter would have been in foul trouble that game. With a different makeup, maybe we wouldn't have had to exclusively play zone. No matter what anyone says, K couldn't hide Bagley anywhere. Between Delaurier, Bolden, and White, the defense would have been a little better, thus not putting as much pressure on the offense.
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Well, we aren't beating Syracuse in that Sweet 16 game, most likely losing by double digits.
Bagley was superman in that game, scored 22 of our 69, and they were a big 22, he seemed to always get the bucket right when it seemed as Syracuse could take the lead. Frankly, everyone else was terrible that game.
Grayson shot 3-14 from three...our team shot 5-26, ouch.
As I've said, there were a combination of factors. Without Bags, a PnR O would have been fine with Jav/Bolden rather than Bags. Not as good on O, certainly, as WITH Bags. But much better on D.
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The current roster should have been fine. Trent and Allen's inconsistent shooting ultimately doomed the strategy we employed. If they'd turned into the 40% shooters we expected, Duke wins more games and probably plays for the NCAAT title.
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At the end of the day, when the professed shooters can't make shots (and no one expected TD to be a capable 3pt shooter) no strategy will succeed.
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Honestly, I'm amazed at the mental gymnastics large portions of this fan base will engage in purely for the purposes of avoiding admitting the truth of the following statement;
Grayson Allen was the main culprit for last season's lack of success.
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That statement has been true for 2 straight years, but almost no one wants to admit it.
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The current roster should have been fine. Trent and Allen's inconsistent shooting ultimately doomed the strategy we employed. If they'd turned into the 40% shooters we expected, Duke wins more games and probably plays for the NCAAT title.
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At the end of the day, when the professed shooters can't make shots (and no one expected TD to be a capable 3pt shooter) no strategy will succeed.
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Honestly, I'm amazed at the mental gymnastics large portions of this fan base will engage in purely for the purposes of avoiding admitting the truth of the following statement;
Grayson Allen was the main culprit for last season's lack of success.
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That statement has been true for 2 straight years, but almost no one wants to admit it.
Cause it's easy to blame Bags, OAD or Carter's comments.
FYI-Another take on the Carter story w/a Trent angle as well:The local Raleigh News and Observer added a bit to the Carter story. Carter was apparently asked about having to play a lesser role behind Bagley which spawned his remarks.
Also, this is an idea of how the local area media portray the Blue Devils. There's also some further spice from Trent Sr.....
Players 'weren’t able to show all their strengths' at Duke, Wendell Carter Jr. says.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article212667934.html
OFC
Also, this is an idea of how the local area media portray the Blue Devils. There's also some further spice from Trent Sr.....
Players 'weren’t able to show all their strengths' at Duke, Wendell Carter Jr. says.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article212667934.html
OFC
This thread has devolved from the OP topic, but commenting on the last page or so, I do think our inconsistent and in many cases downright lousy three point shooting was our downfall this past year. It's not the ONLY reason we came up a bit short of expectations, but IMHO it was the biggest factor.
I do trust in K, and I think he did a good job of getting the best he could out of a complex situation of OAD's then Bagley reclassifying along with a Senior Grayson. It's the era of college basketball. The landscape has changed.
I also think if that last second shot at the end of regulation falls for Allen in the E8 most of us would be singing a different tune. It takes some luck to win a national championship, and we didn't get it when we needed it at that moment.
I do trust in K, and I think he did a good job of getting the best he could out of a complex situation of OAD's then Bagley reclassifying along with a Senior Grayson. It's the era of college basketball. The landscape has changed.
I also think if that last second shot at the end of regulation falls for Allen in the E8 most of us would be singing a different tune. It takes some luck to win a national championship, and we didn't get it when we needed it at that moment.
If any of you were Trent or Duval's dad, would you like where your kid is projected now versus before the season? We all know many parents think their kid is better than they are, but these two kids have seen their stock fall, correct? Carter seems closest of the three to be where he was preseason.
I'm not saying they wouldn't have fallen anyway, but in their mind, maybe the addition of Bagley hindered them some. He was added very late.
I wouldn't like seeing my kid fall, which means a fair amount of money from say the 20th overall pick to the 30th. Roughly 4-500,000.00.
I'm not saying they wouldn't have fallen anyway, but in their mind, maybe the addition of Bagley hindered them some. He was added very late.
I wouldn't like seeing my kid fall, which means a fair amount of money from say the 20th overall pick to the 30th. Roughly 4-500,000.00.
If you cant trust K, who can you trust as a college hoops coach.Hes best of all time in my book. However I think you maybe hit on a key component per "the complex situation of OAD's," and adding Bagley to the mix. Is 4 too many perhaps?
We should find out more this year when we start an entire new 4. I think K's job is tough in the sense of pacifying too many OAD's. I am not just talking about the players, but the parents as well!
OFC
No ish. TD thought we'd have one big in the paint, with another (Jav or Bolden) running around setting picks and staying out of the way. And that he'd be PnR-ing or throwing passes to open shooters who'd then MAKE the shots. Instead, he got a clogged lane and shooters that didn't make shots and a SG that got to initiate a lot. If you watch our games, TD got Trent and Allen 1-3 WIDE open 3 looks a game. Wide open, essentially unguarded looks. Shooters need to hit that shot at an 80% clip. If our shooters had made more of these TD generated looks, he'd have been pushing 10 apg, and he'd be a first round LOCK.
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Trent shot OK, but the clogged paint cut down on his superior midrange game (which greatly impressed scouts at the combine). Further, he was not able to show his potential on the defensive end (which, again, impressed scouts at the combine) because we were forced to switch to a zone to hide Bags (and to a lesser extent Grayson), on D. That zone D also negated one of TD' strengths as well.
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So, yeah, I think TD and Trent are justifiably angry/disappointed with how the season turned out. The very late addition of Bags was detrimental to their individual games, while doing nothing to improve team success, of which Duke had none last year.
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Our strategies last year were designed to cater to the strengths and weaknesses of only 2 players: Allen and Bags. What would have been great for both those guys would have been to be humiliated, on TV, until they were forced to either execute better on D or just give up the game. A few TOs, with the rest of the team staying on the court while one or both of Allen and Bags were ceremoniously yanked for M2M defensive failings would have been great for them. By Jan they'd have been playing better on D, and the team would have been better for it. So would they. If Bags were not a complete dumpster fire on D, and he's way worse than we as Duke fans will publicly admit (far, far worse), he'd legit be in the number 1 pick discussion. I expect him to be out of the top 4. Bamba has bust potential, and Jaren Jackson may not come close to his upside, but Bags is THAT bad on D. Allen has all the makings of a top tier 3 and D player. He's guy that should be seen as a shooter than can guard either SGs or even top tier PGs. He's got the length and athleticism. But he's horrible on D, and GMs know it.
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It would have been great for their hoops careers if K had forced them to play D, and K could have done it. But it might have cost us some meaningless games early in the season, and K wouldn't take that risk. And we reaped the rewards of that strategy.
Draft projections after high school are pure garbage, Duval didn't lose his jumper during the year - never had one and any person could see that. The kids play and their weaknesses are exposed.
Quite a few OAD parents know their kid is overhyped but feel they are entitled to the money and don't want to be exposed as poor player.
IDK if X number is too many. But the incredibly late addition of a player who is so transformative to the style of play is a lot to deal with. If we'd added a true SF, or a defensive minded PF/C, that would be one thing. But we added a ball dominant big to a roster/recruiting class that already one of them, and a PG (and SG, if we are honest) who needed an open lane to operate.
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Our style of play and strategy altered incredibly, and it did so too late for any committed player to do anything about it.
Did you place a bug in my living room? Sound like my brother
Do I sound like your brother (a person who already exists), or do I sound like I could be your brother (doesn't already exist)? I'm not sure if this is a solid burn, or a compliment.
True. I'm upset with Allen and Trent's shooting, but we still had that game won. TD got Carter a wide open look for a bunny, which he blew. I'm sure Carter would prefer no one remember that.
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Honestly, if his teammates come through and capitalize on all the great opportunities that TD created for them (the primary task for PGs), TD would have been on the all region team, if not regional MVP. He'd have gone on to eviscerate the lack of a rim protector on Nova's team (we still might have lost to their superior shooting), and he'd be a first round lock.
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Of course, if TD hadn't blown a defensive assignment, all that would have been true, so it is what it is.
Yep. I thought Trevon was our best player in 3 of the 4 tournament games. He was GREAT in the first weekend, anyone remember him making it rain from 3???
The only game he was bad in was Syracuse, and he was badddddd that game unfortunately. Everyone was, except Marvin.
That Carter missed bunny against Kansas still haunts me, if he didn't brick it (just draw iron!), the ball goes somewhere else. We either get the rebound or would have been able to get back on defense.
Compliment, had this exact conversation about Grayson with my brother few weeks back.
Ok let’s wrap this one up. We shouldn’t have taken Bagley, he ruined everybody's draft status and Grayson was horrible. Truly enlightening thread. Anybody down for just calling last season over and moving on? I am. You guys hear we've got some new players coming in? Hey! We're gonna play in Canada soon !
Its a message board. Speaking for myself I love to talk Duke basketball past, present and future.
OFC
What else will be talk about? Recruiting info is scarce on the ground, and next year is a giant known quantity. Rather, we know exactly what we don't know, so what is the fun of going round and round about the things we don't know the answers too at this point/
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Frankly, I think this program could do with a lot more introspection and reflection on years past. It might prevent the same mistake from being made going forward.
So what are we looking at making adjustments? You wanna redo some of the past or all of it? Make adjustments for every season other than the championship seasons? Restrict 5 star players to a limit? Say only....3 each season, tell the others go elsewhere? I see some saying it would have been fine if we had made the FF this season, we were like a rimout from that. Was that Bagleys fault or Graysons? If we had sent Bags to UNC would we have won it all maybe? Seriously , discussing it's cool but this thread is bordering on insanity now. And honestly, I don't see where Carter attacked K and the program. I know thats like big news right now but I think somebody misinterpreted that interview.
So out of Barrett, Williamson, Reddish, and Jones , who are you guys saying we shouldn't have taken this year?
When are you going to start? All I ever hear from you are likes and echoes .
Good question...........we need all of them.
RJ Cam and Tre all were locked up by Duke forever ago, Zion was the wildcard, obviously with the late commitment.
We really need Zion, Javin showed zero offensive game this year, I don't think he would have been ready to start. I love him and Jack off the bench to provide energy/fouls/good defense.
I think the better question is who will be this teams "whipping boy?" Who will be the Jayson Tatum/Gary Trent JR?????
My money is on Cam. He's fantastic, but if he plays bad, it may look like a "he's lazy and playing bad" type of effort.
I think the question is...when the hell will the season start! so we can talk about something that’s not hypothetical lmao (kidding) pun
lmao (kidding) punI think we should start worrying about where they’ll be drafted next year.