I know these games are not ACC quality teams but Bolden, Alex, Jordan G and Javin have all had their moments. It's good to see the guys coming off the bench having confidence to play some a role to contribute. The only question marks are Jordan T being the last guy and Jack.
The bench players
- Thread starter Jake1985
- Start date
ACC quality? Have you seen some of the ACC teams play this season yet?
BC, Clemson, Wake and State all look like mid majors. I like playing the seasoned mid majors early. the bench continues to impress me giving the starters good breathers.
I think at this juncture it’s safe to assume Tucker and White are on the outside looking in. The same is likely true for Vrank, as well....but he’s proven he can be productive and there’s situations where I can see him getting some run. The other four you mentioned seem to be part of the rotation for now. I think we potentially see different things on a game-by-game basis. What I mean by that is there might be game where Alex or Goldwire play 10 minutes, but the next they don’t see the court. It’s going to be situational, IMO.
I agree in that i think Alex has nabbed that “8th” spot we all debated in the off-season. He’s earned it in practice and clearly has played well. It might only be 10-12mpg but he’s got the lock on that role right now. Admittedly, i thought it would be Tucker, but kudos to AOC, for winning that spot. He looks great. Jordan makes 9, and is doing a serviceable job in spot duty when he comes in. He’s had a couple rough games against southern and Furman, but the fact that he’s even proven to the staff that he can give minutes is a huge boost for this team. No one is playing more than needed which is great for this teams development.
I also think Grayson has proven he's more than a viable option to run the point in spurts when Duval is out. Goldwire is going to get some minutes, IMO, but I do feel they're going to become less and less.
O'Connell is a welcome surprise, especially since he's what, 12 years old? Just wait until he's a teenager!
It was always going to be another ball handler in the last rotation slot. With Gray/Tre/Garay as our action-makers and Bags/Carter as our glass cleaners, we have bench needs of two action makers and two glass men. Bolden and Jav are doing well to defend and finish easy buckets. Goldie and the Stick round out our 9. We have the best deep bench in all of college ball in: Tucker, Vrank, White, and Robinson. You give those 4 guys to a decent point guard, and that team is competitive. This is a special year.
Could swap him in for McCauley Caulkin in Home alone and you wouldn’t know the difference.
Absolutely. He’s a very underrated passer. Vision to get that pass to Trent in the first half and a couple of the unselfish dump offs in the lane were plays Goldwire can’t make yet.
I like seeing 4 guys from the bench getting some action. Yes there will be some games probably where 2 maybe 3 play, and minutes may be low.
I try not to look past the season we are in, but the guys coming off the bench this season will be here next season, and their experience will be needed.
The better the bench, the better the team. There will be games where foul trouble is a concern, and having guys getting action now will prepare them for when their time is called in a tough game.
I try not to look past the season we are in, but the guys coming off the bench this season will be here next season, and their experience will be needed.
The better the bench, the better the team. There will be games where foul trouble is a concern, and having guys getting action now will prepare them for when their time is called in a tough game.
You can see the BBall IQ in Alex, kind of puts me in the mind of Luke, just the bball swag they both exude. Alex is going to do some great things in the not so distant future.
As the season progresses, I think we will see Grayson slide to the point when Trevon needs a breather. Javin and Bolden will get the most minutes off the bench. Alex may start getting more minutes if he can continue shooting the ball like he did last night. I got a feeling Goldwire will become the odd man out.
I am not trying to bash Alex at all, he has stepped up and grabbed a spot in the rotation no one really had him pegged for this early. With that being said, I am curious to see how he will stack up once the competition stiffens. His is highly skilled and shows no fear, but he is still quite thin and the jury is still out if he will be able to hold his own physically on a consistent basis. He has proven himself every step along the way so far, so maybe he can, but bigger bodies are coming in the near future.
Completely understand your concerns about Alex, but if you do the comparisons, if the info listed on the rosters is correct, he is 1" taller and 10lbs lighter than Luke was. If the staff can add about 7-8lbs on him, you have about the same body size as Luke. Alex will never be expected to bang inside. He is a shooter. I also remember someone on the board who went to CTC saying he looked much bigger in person than on TV. I think Alex can play some effective minutes against better teams
At the start of the season, K said that Alex added 15lbs. If you look closely at how the strength and conditioning program has transformed players just take a look at players from Fr to Soph year.
Matt J- added 12-15lbs
Grayson- added 15lbs
Luke- added around 15lbs
Alex is listed at 171. Put 10-15lbs on him and get him around 185. It's a given that he needs to add some strength and weight but look at all of his intangibles. BI is an example of a player who was definitely thin but who played tougher than most would have guessed. Not saying he was a stout defender at the 4 by any means, just making a point. Alex will be fine and will make an impact during his Duke career.
If we are talking about players that will benefit from the strength and confirming program as Fr so could Jordan G and Jordan T. I see all three players (Alex and both Jordan's) and the supporting cast to next year's back court that now only will make Duke's back court the best in the nation but that will also win Duke games.
Matt J- added 12-15lbs
Grayson- added 15lbs
Luke- added around 15lbs
Alex is listed at 171. Put 10-15lbs on him and get him around 185. It's a given that he needs to add some strength and weight but look at all of his intangibles. BI is an example of a player who was definitely thin but who played tougher than most would have guessed. Not saying he was a stout defender at the 4 by any means, just making a point. Alex will be fine and will make an impact during his Duke career.
If we are talking about players that will benefit from the strength and confirming program as Fr so could Jordan G and Jordan T. I see all three players (Alex and both Jordan's) and the supporting cast to next year's back court that now only will make Duke's back court the best in the nation but that will also win Duke games.
The group of "more than 1 and dones" that Coach K has assembled is excellent and shows that once again he's the best. If Goldwire and O'Connell keep getting some minutes, they will be in good position to become Matt Jones types as the years go by--leaders by example, not necessarily with the most gaudy numbers but their work ethics and experience. And that's assuming that O'Connell doesn't blow up and become the next Grayson.
Look at next year's starting back court
6-2 180 Tre
6-6 200 RJ
6-7 215 Cam
Those are 3 studs that will dominate but none will play 40 minutes each.
The reserves (with added weight & strength)
6-2 185 Jordan G
6-6 185 Alex
6-7 220 Jordan T
If JG and Alex keep earning minutes this year then make that Soph leap they can supplimemt the starters. Then add in JT's shooting ability.
To me, it clear, this group can score, defend and is very athletic.
6-2 180 Tre
6-6 200 RJ
6-7 215 Cam
Those are 3 studs that will dominate but none will play 40 minutes each.
The reserves (with added weight & strength)
6-2 185 Jordan G
6-6 185 Alex
6-7 220 Jordan T
If JG and Alex keep earning minutes this year then make that Soph leap they can supplimemt the starters. Then add in JT's shooting ability.
To me, it clear, this group can score, defend and is very athletic.
Goldwire seems to be 6th or 7th man at this point, not sure why some of you think his minutes are going away. I like what I've seen from him so far along with most of the bench.
I don’t see it that way. I see Javin and then Bolden. I see Goldwire as situational. Not that it matters i guess, sixth man doesn’t always have to apply to the first man off the bench in my mind even though i guess that’s technically what it means. But i see Javin as that role- he knows every game he’s getting in early regardless of the situation, regardless of score or foul trouble. He knows he will have 14-20min. Goldwire could play 3 could play 15. Really is dictated by the game.
I was just going to add that you're starting 5 maybe the best in the country. The issue will be the bench and whoever can emerge from off of it. Right now, Bagley, Allen, Trent, Carter and Duval score the vast majority of your points. Be interesting to see if DeLaurier can improve further and who will spot Duval when he goes on the bench for a few minutes.
Wake Forest, yes. But the other schools you mentioned, not so much. Clemson, NC State, and Boston College are a combined 12-2, with close losses to Texas Tech (#16 in kenpom) and Temple (#48 in kenpom). I don't think they're top 25 teams, but I think all three schools are much improved - and they all have a reasonable shot at the tournament.
... Pitt and Wake look really bad, though. Hard to imagine them not being #14 and #15 in the conference.
To be honest, i dont think a whole lot really needs to change in terms of the rotation. I dont think we need as much of a scoring punch off the bench, just consistent efforts. i'm totally fine and believe that we will get almost all of our points from our top 5 guys. all have the ability to put up 20 any given night- bagely almost assuredly. of course if we do get into foul trouble, bolden and javin, will have to step up, same with O'connell...however bolden and javin, need to do so in just keeping us strong on the glass. for Alex, take your shot when you get it.
You'll look great early on and K will shorten the bench and by March the team will be gassed
The reason I think Alex can keep himself in the rotation is his ability to do one thing the other bench players can't consistently.....and that's score.
Javin's role at this point is to provide depth, be disruptive and make non-scoring plays. When he scores it's a bonus. Marquis, IMO, can take on a little bit of scoring burden, but it's going to be lunch bucket kind of scoring....meaning maybe four to six points per game without the scoring 'explosion' per se. Goldwire, well, it's not his game yet. Alex, on the other hand, can make outside shots and has a knack for attacking the basket. He's a little bit like Grayson as a freshman, whereas I could see him having a few of those double-digit scoring games....and not just against teams like last night, but against ACC competition.
Alex was a kid I expected little from this season, and while my expectations are still relatively low, he's a guy I can see helping us 'win' some games this season.....and not just playing to put a warm body out there.
Javin's role at this point is to provide depth, be disruptive and make non-scoring plays. When he scores it's a bonus. Marquis, IMO, can take on a little bit of scoring burden, but it's going to be lunch bucket kind of scoring....meaning maybe four to six points per game without the scoring 'explosion' per se. Goldwire, well, it's not his game yet. Alex, on the other hand, can make outside shots and has a knack for attacking the basket. He's a little bit like Grayson as a freshman, whereas I could see him having a few of those double-digit scoring games....and not just against teams like last night, but against ACC competition.
Alex was a kid I expected little from this season, and while my expectations are still relatively low, he's a guy I can see helping us 'win' some games this season.....and not just playing to put a warm body out there.
I see what you're saying, and I definitely agree on Tucker and White being the odd men out as of now. Nothing is definite, but it's premature to say O'Connell and Goldwire may not play in some games. We don't know how a game is going to go, who's going to be in foul trouble or who's having a bad game. Now if Duval is playing great from tip to finish without foul trouble, it won't hurt my feelings to see Goldwire not play.
I see Duke playing at least 7 every game, there will be games where 8 or 9 play.
Most everyone has already been surprised that these 2 are getting the minutes through the first 5 games. They belong, and there's a very good chance that both will be needed before March gets here. No one, I mean no one, saw Goldwire and Duval on the court together 1 month ago, and of all games, against a power house.
Yeah Goldy really surprised folks here along with Alex, and I can see them playing their same roles now in March....OFC
I hope we can keep playing 8 at least during the regular season. I don’t see ya having many games where it’s just nip and tuck. I give it about 6 games during this regular season where it’s close throughout and he just wants to play the top 7. Other than that I see Jordan G getting minutes every game and Alex will come in for a few as well. Both got in against Michigan State so I definitely see them playing later on in the season. They’ll only get better.
What’s up with Gary Trent? I don’t see him do much when he isn’t scoring. I need to watch his defense more. Maybe he’s defending well.
What’s up with Gary Trent? I don’t see him do much when he isn’t scoring. I need to watch his defense more. Maybe he’s defending well.
So far, we are getting exactly what we needed from the bench. We needed one of Javin/Bolden the be a legit 6th man. Good spark off of the bench, capable as a starter/starter minutes if someone gets hurt or there is major foul trouble. Javin has done that. We needed the other to be solid if when called upon. Bolden is starting to show he can be that. We need Vrank to hold his own when things go really south. He did just that against MSU. In the backcourt, we needed one guy to step up and be able to handle 10+ minutes a game on a regular basis or 2 guys to handle more specific roles for 5+ minutes a game on a nightly basis. I think Goldwire and Alex fit the latter scenario and both are not too far away from the former scenario.
Alex has turned into one of my favorite players and he will be a fan favorite for a few years. The kid hops around like a some sort of jumping bug but he has so much energy and charisma its got to be infectious to the other players. I'm not trying to be ugly or funny but he reminds me of a Hitler Youth that was sent to the front in the final weeks of WW-2. I love it when he pops a three or drives for a basket and its like he's opening his first Christmas present.
That’s basically what I was saying, so I don’t see your point. I was speculating on their playing time. I could certainly be wrong.
Besides MSU, we haven’t played anybody. We all loved how we played that game, but it’s still one game.....albeit against a really good team.
We’re incredibly talented....moreso than probably any other team in the country, but I think five days from now we’ll have a much better gauge than we do now.
Gary can be the Justise for this team. And I’m not comparing them as players, but in the roles they play. What I mean by that is finding their spot. This year, we have size....but we need a newcomer to find his place on the perimeter. Three years ago, we lacked a little bit of size, but Justise made us more versatile sliding to the four at times.
Bolden will never, ever average six rebounds per game at Duke. That’s just not what he does.
But, he can be really good. He’s a scoring option. His intangibles and measureables make him important.
I'll take some points, some boards and a block from Bolden if it means his confidence is growing.
I'm ok with the shortening of the bench in real tight games as long as in blow outs the starters don't have to stay out there. Not saying they can't handle the minutes but when there is no need and bench players can help it works out to Dukes benefit
I'm ok with the shortening of the bench in real tight games as long as in blow outs the starters don't have to stay out there. Not saying they can't handle the minutes but when there is no need and bench players can help it works out to Dukes benefit