Its asking alot of the starters to log a ton minutes every single game. We still have 13 left. We are not even half way through the big 10 schedule. After Hyatt we obviously dont have a ton of scoring but hook or by crook we need Simpson, Reiber, Wolfman and even Miller to give us a little offense.
The Bench has to step up
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the key is that the starters HAVE to come out stronger in the opening 5-6 minutes....the issue seems to crop up at home of late, if the starters give us that opening cushion it eases the pressure on the bench that they have to do something to give RU momentum and their mistakes get magnified trying to do too much.
This is why I keep saying play Reiber a little with Cliff. I think the stretch 4 role will open his outside game a little. I know everyone's response will be his defense, but at some.point we are going to need his ability to shoot. It was a factor last year at times
The entire bench needs to step up, but it especially hurts that Simpson is really slumping for a while now after some very good early games like IU.
Hyatt and Simpson just need to keep shooting. Last game was a Defensive effort so they played less. Cam just had his worst shooting night and scored 21 pts because he didn’t stop shooting. He earned the right to keep shooting not only with his previous great shooting but his all around play. Hyatt didn’t log a lot of minutes but played some good D and rebounded well. The staff will see that on film and work him in more somehow even when Mag is on fire like he was against OSU.
He’s too slow to guard most centers, how’s he going to stay with 4s?
I believe our post season chances ride on this.
DO NOT COMPARE MINUTES OTHER TEAM STARTERS PLAY WITH OUR STARTERS!!!!!!
Simpson is the key. I don't blame Pike for yanking him because he wants to win games. If we are to stay fresh we need our starters to be high 20s/low 30s most nights. That means Simpson or Miller, that mean HyattandMag, that could mean (gulp) 2 centers.
Our bench needs to eat minutes.
DO NOT COMPARE MINUTES OTHER TEAM STARTERS PLAY WITH OUR STARTERS!!!!!!
Simpson is the key. I don't blame Pike for yanking him because he wants to win games. If we are to stay fresh we need our starters to be high 20s/low 30s most nights. That means Simpson or Miller, that mean HyattandMag, that could mean (gulp) 2 centers.
Our bench needs to eat minutes.
Simpson has been out of control, he needs to learn to let the game come to him. Coach should sit him down and tell him to watch Spencer put on a masterclass in that.
Caleb’s minutes are actually the biggest concern. He’s played 33+ minutes in all but 3 games since returning. Those games were CC (his first game back), Coppin and Seton Hall.
Do not disagree with your general statement that our starters have to play less but not remotely close to all successful NCAA teams blueprint. The champions and runner ups all have their starters logging 35+ minutes a game with an occasional bench guy going off because a starter got in foul trouble. It has been happening for 20 years or more.
So yes it would be ideal if Caleb or Paul got only 32 - 34 minutes a night. Cam gets in foul trouble a little so he will play less than Paul or Caleb. But the issue is Simpson after coming out of the gate hot has really played like a freshman the last 4-5 games. No problem because he is playing against 22-23 year olds. He has to get mentally tougher because Pike is going give him either 10 or 20 minutes depending on how he does and the more under control and more confident he stays the more time he gets.
Wolf and Dean are struggling defensively with rotations and drop coverage and even rebounding. They can clean that up and give Cliff 7-10 minutes to rest. They are both capable. Dean seems to be pressing as he knows he can knock down a couple threes and he is rushing it or forcing it , but we need him defensively and on the boards and he has to prioritize defense over his urge to be an offensive spark and let the game come to him.
Wolf has not been sharp since BIG 10 play has started but he is fully capable of valuable minutes and has lost some confidence. His continued development will decide how many minutes he gets.
Those are the issues and scenarios for more minutes but the truth is that your best players your 21-22-23 year old starters ,Paul, Caleb , Cam and Cliff are going to play a lot and if games are close they will play more. Will make the difference between winning and losing.
The lack of scoring by the starters and the bench leaves Pikiell with little margin for error .The games are close and a opponent spurt in scoring puts Rutgers in a catch up mode .Fortunately,Rutgers has been able to find a way to win except for Iowa who is a offfensive juggernaut and a bad matchup for Rutgers.What is very surprising is how well Rutgers has played on the road even when the team only averages around 65 points a game.Lets hope the magic contimues against Michigan State on Thursday.
Two words are affecting depth for many teams in college bball currently: Transfer Portal
We haven't been affected to any great extent, but many teams have. No question
Baylor would have loved to have retained Matt Mayer, who is playing really well
for Illinois. Just one example
We haven't been affected to any great extent, but many teams have. No question
Baylor would have loved to have retained Matt Mayer, who is playing really well
for Illinois. Just one example
Hey it was a bad game for the bench. But I really like this bench overall. There are five people that play, and four of the five have already flashed at times (Wolf, Reiber, Hyatt, Simpson) with the fifth (Miller) is just steady in his role. Would you like them to be more consistent? Sure. But that's why they aren't starting.
I can most likely name teams in the past where all five of those would have been our starters.
I can most likely name teams in the past where all five of those would have been our starters.
I think these games are high leverage and very important in terms of standings and seedings. BUT I also think that once we to Michigan State, we will see more bench minutes.
Most teams that use their bench more consistently (Illinois, Purdue and Michigan State) are building for February and March and are willing to take more chances right now. Izzo plays a lot of depth, so we can spread that depth out against their depth.
I think Simpson, Hyatt or Mag are the 3 players that have to provide some sort of boost. Mag isn't usually in the 33 minute range, so it's usually him or Hyatt.
If Hyatt was a little better at handling the ball, we could cut Caleb minutes, which I think will make sense. But Hyatt has to lock in better on defense and I feel like he's more in sync now.
The Woolfolk/Reiber item is really hit or miss, I don't think Cliff is coming off the floor, unless he's in foul trouble.
Most teams that use their bench more consistently (Illinois, Purdue and Michigan State) are building for February and March and are willing to take more chances right now. Izzo plays a lot of depth, so we can spread that depth out against their depth.
I think Simpson, Hyatt or Mag are the 3 players that have to provide some sort of boost. Mag isn't usually in the 33 minute range, so it's usually him or Hyatt.
If Hyatt was a little better at handling the ball, we could cut Caleb minutes, which I think will make sense. But Hyatt has to lock in better on defense and I feel like he's more in sync now.
The Woolfolk/Reiber item is really hit or miss, I don't think Cliff is coming off the floor, unless he's in foul trouble.
Winning games in January helps get us a nice seed. I want to win games in late March.
Matt Painter watched us win in his building under minute parameters he set. Purdue probably beats us if he rode his starters. He knows, Izzo knows, Calhoun knew games in January mean little. They were willing to lose them if it meant their teams are better in March.
With a few more wins Pike will have that luxury.
Goru,
Show me a team that win a national championship with a below average offense and an elite defense. Then show me minute allocations.
Most teams at the end are out scoring teams and not crushing them on the head with rocks. You can’t compare the way we do it to others.
Show me a team that win a national championship with a below average offense and an elite defense. Then show me minute allocations.
Most teams at the end are out scoring teams and not crushing them on the head with rocks. You can’t compare the way we do it to others.
Those schools play much tougher OOC schedules and can take losses during the season much easier than we can.
Didn’t see this when I typed my reply. You are saying exactly what I am saying. I think Pike will do as you say. He may need assistance from Knight to keep him on track
I hear you. As a fan with his glass half empty I want to see more wins before “optimizing” medium and long term.
5 game losing streaks could be around the corner for all 14 B1G teams.
You can forget about Miller giving us any offense he needs to not see the court; everyone loves his defense he came in to OSU game and immediately gave up a 3 pointer to his man; he is just not that good on defense if you ever watched very closely
Ohio State’s bench outscored Rutgers bench 38-2. That’s a bit inflated because Key and Sensabaugh did not start for the Buckeyes. Nonetheless Rutgers bench played 39 minutes and contributed 2 points (Simpson)
Houston is doing it now and has done it for the last few years. Kentucky had ridiculous talent but go look at how elite defensively they were and locked down teams and went on their runs.
Yes., unlikely our defensive effort can be maintained for the next 13 games , BIG 10 tourney and then NCAA run , but I think with the time between games expanding to 3-4 days instead of a 2 day turnaround helps but also when we play Minnesota and Nebraska and Northwestern and others where we get up 10 points early on the game , we will see the bench get more minutes. You have a legitimate concern especially after last year. Although our defense last year was not as good and not elite to this year’s , I never saw that Notre Dame coming. We hardly played defense the whole game and criminally not at the end of regulation . So it is a fine line but I think this team is just wired better to absorb the extra minutes.
Greene , Purdue and Painter wasn’t beating us if he played his starters. We dominated them in the first half with his starters. We made his freshman guards uncomfortable. I do not think they are unbeatable and they have gotten lucky these last few road games but we beat them at their place on top of being the only team to beat them. Don’t try to cheapen our win. It was earned.
On your way to spreading out minutes with March in mind, you could lose too many games and get a bad seed (7-10). We need to win as many games as possible right now and try and get a 4 to 6 seed. This would give us the best chance of advancing to the Sweet 16.
Would I *prefer* if our four primary bench players took up 50-60 minutes? Yes.
Do I want to risk losing games in the name of spreading out minutes? No. Full stop.
Would I *prefer* if our four primary bench players took up 50-60 minutes? Yes.
Do I want to risk losing games in the name of spreading out minutes? No. Full stop.
This is kind of an unfair challenge, being as there are NO teams that win a national championship with below average offenses. None. You are asking someone to prove the existence of the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot. So can we flip this around? Show me a team like ours with elite defense and middling offense, and let's look at their minutes distribution.
My first thought was Virginia, as we're being compared to them. In their championship year, three players averaged 32+ minutes. Four others averaged 16+ minutes and one was around 9 minutes. That seems similar to us - but kenpom says they had the #2 offense that year. Still, nobody would argue they were not elite on defense, and I am sure they put a lot of energy into that side of the floor.
FWIW in our seven conference games, we have Simpson averaging 16 minutes, Hyatt 23, Mag 24.9, Spencer 30, Cliff 31, Paul 32.9, and Caleb 35.9. Only Caleb is in a real red flag zone to me. Reiber is at 5.3 and Woolfolk at 4.7 (with one DNP in the mix). Hopefully we will get some easier games that will take some pressure off those minutes without costing us wins.
I am red flagging....
Paul 36 MPG last 5
Caleb 36 MPG last 5
Cliff 34 MPG last 5
Cliff should be on top of the red flag list.
Simpson last 5 (recent 1st) 9,9,22,18,15
The recent 9s are killers. It was why I think the key to our season is Derek Simpson. He determines how much rest Caleb, Cam and Paul get
Paul 36 MPG last 5
Caleb 36 MPG last 5
Cliff 34 MPG last 5
Cliff should be on top of the red flag list.
Simpson last 5 (recent 1st) 9,9,22,18,15
The recent 9s are killers. It was why I think the key to our season is Derek Simpson. He determines how much rest Caleb, Cam and Paul get
Painter was willing to take the risk
We played defense, but they exposed our weakness that very good offensive teams can take advantage of, like Iowa did the other day. Spread the floor, wait for us to overplay the ball, and swing the ball to an open 3pt shooter or someone cutting to the hoop for a layup. We need to learn to adapt, play more straight up man and drop Cliff back to the paint when this is happening to us.
Painter's team is IN THE TOURNAMENT with a top four seed GUARANTEED unless Edey goes down with a serious injury. Not an apples to apples comparison IMO.