The Bama conundrum

[triton28]

Obviously, calling for Sabans head is ridiculous. But imagine if the only thing that defined a good season was whether you won it all or not. I’m positive saban is the greatest coach of all time, but I’m not positive he will get them back to that, cause there’s some new guys that are hungry and are doing it. What happens now? Wouldn’t be shocked if he hangs it up.

 

[wtw2400]

We have to make his *** quit like we made Stallings quit.

Saban will never retire as long as he wins. He will when he loses.

 

[Dawg1976]

I've thought he would retire after one more NC. That might not happen now so who knows when he will hang it up. He may keep trying or when he simply runs out of gas.

 

[Sienfield]

He has one more AFLAC commercial to do first.

 

[HumpDawgy]

For winning all those championships, he sure is a miserable 17.

 

[615dawg]

Obviously, calling for Sabans head is ridiculous. But imagine if the only thing that defined a good season was whether you won it all or not. I’m positive saban is the greatest coach of all time, but I’m not positive he will get them back to that, cause there’s some new guys that are hungry and are doing it. What happens now? Wouldn’t be shocked if he hangs it up.

I hope Florida State throws $20 million at him, then Dabo decides he wants to stay at Clemson and Alabama has to hire Jeremy Pruitt.

 

[patdog]

Bama will match any offer. I fully expect Saban to still be coaching Alabama in 2024. Not sure how much longer he'll last after that, but he'll retire from this job. He's not leaving for anywhere.

 

[DAWG61]

If LSU beats their *** 2-3 more times in a row Saban will tap out

 

[Shmuley]

I’ve said all along, and I still believe it, he wants 7 at Bama. He has 5 at Bama. He wants one more than Bear so he eclipses Bear in Bama lore.

 

[The Situation]

We have to make his *** quit like we made Stallings quit.

Saban will never retire as long as he wins. He will when he loses.

Yep, this is it. Winning energizes him (like it would anybody). We (as in the rest of the field, collectively) will have to force the issue. If he misses the playoff this year, he's on his way because they lose a TON off of this team. 2 years in a row of not contending will have his head spinning, although I don't see anybody else in the West contending next year either. It'll be Georgia's or Florida's SEC in my opinion.

 

[patdog]

Yep. It's worth noting though that 3 of Bear's 6 championships were split titles (and in 2 of those they were ranked #4 in the other major poll). All of Saban's are undisputed (sorry Central Florida).

 

[The Situation]

Side question - can anyone truly identify the traits that make Saban a great coach? It's easy to point to the fact that he recruits great players and that's why he wins, but why is that? Is he a salesman? No, he seems to me like the most miserable f*ck on the face of the earth. And you can't just 'become' a good recruiter, you have to have something to sell to do that. And while he had a marketable program at LSU and Alabama, he did not at Michigan State.

So what's his niche? One would guess it is fundamentals, because none of his schemes are very complicated. His players just rarely make mistakes, i.e. they are simply 'sound'. I hear a lot about his 'processes' but this isn't a new concept. I mean the guy was coaching in the NFL, then went to Michigan State, then went to LSU and suddenly was a good recruiter. Well he had to develop good schematics first. It's very rare to take the Dabo/Orgeron path, that path is usually ripe with failure and takes a lot of luck to finally hit.

Another question is, if Saban's miserable *** because an elite recruiter, could the same apply to Mullen? I mean they are the same type coach, miserable dicks to every one but very fundamentally sound with few screw ups (I know Saban is defense and Mullen is offense but that really does not matter). They had the same type success at a have-not school. Why couldn't Mullen learn to be an elite recruiter? And if he can't, what is Saban doing that Mullen is not?

I guess the secret to that is something we might could apply at MSU, whatever that secret sauce really is.

 

[The Situation]

Yep. It's worth noting though that 3 of Bear's 6 championships were split titles (and in 2 of those they were ranked #4 in the other major poll). All of Saban's are undisputed (sorry Central Florida).

I would argue a couple of things:

1) Who knows what those split titles look like if there's a playoff back in those days, Bama might win more, and...

2) Bama's 2011 and 2017 titles were pretty controversial too, not in that they won or were disputed, but in that it was very controversial whether or not they really deserved a shot at those titles, regardless of their reputation as being the best team on paper.

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

Bama fans dealing with the LSU loss:

View attachment 14539

 

[campshelbydog842003]

Side question - can anyone truly identify the traits that make Saban a great coach? It's easy to point to the fact that he recruits great players and that's why he wins, but why is that? Is he a salesman? No, he seems to me like the most miserable f*ck on the face of the earth. And you can't just 'become' a good recruiter, you have to have something to sell to do that. And while he had a marketable program at LSU and Alabama, he did not at Michigan State.

So what's his niche? One would guess it is fundamentals, because none of his schemes are very complicated. His players just rarely make mistakes, i.e. they are simply 'sound'. I hear a lot about his 'processes' but this isn't a new concept. I mean the guy was coaching in the NFL, then went to Michigan State, then went to LSU and suddenly was a good recruiter. Well he had to develop good schematics first. It's very rare to take the Dabo/Orgeron path, that path is usually ripe with failure and takes a lot of luck to finally hit.

Another question is, if Saban's miserable *** because an elite recruiter, could the same apply to Mullen? I mean they are the same type coach, miserable dicks to every one but very fundamentally sound with few screw ups (I know Saban is defense and Mullen is offense but that really does not matter). They had the same type success at a have-not school. Why couldn't Mullen learn to be an elite recruiter? And if he can't, what is Saban doing that Mullen is not?

I guess the secret to that is something we might could apply at MSU, whatever that secret sauce really is.

Saban invests a lot more time into recruiting than Mullen does. Mullen does not want to recruit and that is the main reason Mullen will never be an elite recruiter.

 

[patdog]

1. You can't argue what ifs. It is what it is. Bear also had an easier SEC schedule and easier bowl games to win those 6 national titles than Saban has had. Teams Bama beat in the bowl games to win national titles were ranked #9, #5, #3, #3, #1, #6 going into the bowls.

2. Bama proved the 2011 & 2017 titles were legitimate on the field.

 

[patdog]

I think you're pretty much right that fundamentals is the biggest reason for his success. He is a great recruiter, but it's not hard to be when you're at Alabama and have all their resources available (some NCAA approved, some not). I think one thing that gets overlooked is he does a great job of getting a lot of 5* players to buy into being a team player and waiting behind someone else before they get to play much. That's not easy these days.

 

[The Situation]

1. You can't argue what ifs. It is what it is. Bear also had an easier SEC schedule and easier bowl games to win those 6 national titles than Saban has had. Teams Bama beat in the bowl games to win national titles were ranked #9, #5, #3, #3, #1, #6 going into the bowls.

2. Bama proved the 2011 & 2017 titles were legitimate on the field.

They proved they were best team, but the best shouldn't always win the championship (or even get a chance at the championship, if they lose like Bama did in both years).

I mean it's still a travesty. LSU beat Alabama in Tuscaloosa in 2011. That should have earned them the right not to have to play them again. Everybody knows when top teams are playing you get a 50/50 shot.

So there again, Bama actually did NOT prove themselves to be the best team. They simply took advantage of an opportunity that was based on bias.

ETA: If you can't argue What Ifs, you really can't compare schedules either because there's simply no way to prove it. If it is what it is, then Bear simply has 7 and you can't argue against him.

 

[thatsbaseball]

He is relentless and greedy...two common traits in many American success stories.

 

[Nunya.sixpack]

I think one thing that gets overlooked is he does a great job of getting a lot of 5* players to buy into being a team player and waiting behind someone else before they get to play much. That's not easy these days.

they have to wait 2 years, where he can point and say "look, do you want to be a freshman at MState and play with 9 or 10 other players on the field that are not able to play at your level?" "yes, fletcher cox went there, but we can provide you 2 fewer necessary years of playing time which could lengthen your pro career by that long or longer"

 

[fedxdog]

It's too late for Saban to learn 'humble'...self-effacing he's not. The Bear never threw players under the bus. If Bama lost a game, The Bear would say, "I just didn't do a good coaching job this week!"

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I don't know if we will ever have as many fans outside of Mississippi as we will this weekend.

 

[dogmatic]

This is one of my favorite Bear-isms - the necessity for leaders to pass along the credit and take possession of the blame.

Paraphrasing his philosophy, Bryant's statement was something to the effect of:

"If something goes wrong, I did it. If something goes pretty well, we did it. If something goes great, you did it. That's all it takes to pass along the credit."

 

[ColoradoDawg]

I think Saban's formula for success is pretty simple.

1) Recruit the most talented players.

2) Teach these players to play disciplined/fundamentally sound football

After these 2 things the rest takes care of itself. Alabama has always had great defenses and a good ball control offense (great running backs and a solid not spectacular QB who doesn't turn it over). Honestly, I feel like their current offense is a step away from that core identity that they have always had.

They were in championship game last year and LSU really is that good this year. Once Burrow is gone lets see if they will be able to replace him. Also, Joe Brady will be moving on to bigger and better things in a hurry. I think this year the stars just aligned perfectly for LSU. I don't know if Orgeron will be able to achieve the same level of sustained success that Saban brought to Bama. Right now I feel Clemson is the only other program that will have anything close to that.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I don't think he has time for it anymore. Clemson has evened up with the bastards on sustainable talent and coaching, and Georgia, LSU, and Ohio State are closing the gap fast.

 

[sandwolf.sixpack]

Side question - can anyone truly identify the traits that make Saban a great coach? It's easy to point to the fact that he recruits great players and that's why he wins, but why is that? Is he a salesman? No, he seems to me like the most miserable f*ck on the face of the earth. And you can't just 'become' a good recruiter, you have to have something to sell to do that. And while he had a marketable program at LSU and Alabama, he did not at Michigan State.

I think he's a better salesman than you give him credit for. I have read that he is extremely good in a recruit's living room, both with the recruit and their parents.

 

[johnson86-1]

Side question - can anyone truly identify the traits that make Saban a great coach? It's easy to point to the fact that he recruits great players and that's why he wins, but why is that? Is he a salesman? No, he seems to me like the most miserable f*ck on the face of the earth. And you can't just 'become' a good recruiter, you have to have something to sell to do that. And while he had a marketable program at LSU and Alabama, he did not at Michigan State.

So what's his niche? One would guess it is fundamentals, because none of his schemes are very complicated. His players just rarely make mistakes, i.e. they are simply 'sound'. I hear a lot about his 'processes' but this isn't a new concept. I mean the guy was coaching in the NFL, then went to Michigan State, then went to LSU and suddenly was a good recruiter. Well he had to develop good schematics first. It's very rare to take the Dabo/Orgeron path, that path is usually ripe with failure and takes a lot of luck to finally hit.

Another question is, if Saban's miserable *** because an elite recruiter, could the same apply to Mullen? I mean they are the same type coach, miserable dicks to every one but very fundamentally sound with few screw ups (I know Saban is defense and Mullen is offense but that really does not matter). They had the same type success at a have-not school. Why couldn't Mullen learn to be an elite recruiter? And if he can't, what is Saban doing that Mullen is not?

I guess the secret to that is something we might could apply at MSU, whatever that secret sauce really is.

Saban is not that much better of a coach than other coaches. The difference between him and other really good coaches is he is driven to the point that it's pathological. Other coaches are as good as him for a few years, but they get just the slightest bit complacent, which is all it takes to keep from being the best. Saban has stayed hungry and driven for long enough that he's got a perpetual motion machine. He's at a blue blood and proven that if you play for him, you'll win big and have a shot at the NFL. That helps recruiting, it helps player buy-in. He gets to pass on some character risks, which further ensures buy-in and also gets big time players to be patient and wait multiple years to play (or even stay until they get processed).

I think Meyer is probably a better coach for the short term, he just doesn't have the personality to handle the stress. I think there are a lot of coaches that are potentially just as good, but can't maintain it to the point that it reinforces itself. And there are others that as driven as they are, aren't driven to the point that they will do anything to win. Mullen won't kiss *** in recruiting. Miles wouldn't adjust and let coordinators do things different than what he wanted. We'll see how Dabo sustains it.

 

[The Situation]

Saban is not that much better of a coach than other coaches. The difference between him and other really good coaches is he is driven to the point that it's pathological. Other coaches are as good as him for a few years, but they get just the slightest bit complacent, which is all it takes to keep from being the best. Saban has stayed hungry and driven for long enough that he's got a perpetual motion machine. He's at a blue blood and proven that if you play for him, you'll win big and have a shot at the NFL. That helps recruiting, it helps player buy-in. He gets to pass on some character risks, which further ensures buy-in and also gets big time players to be patient and wait multiple years to play (or even stay until they get processed).

I think Meyer is probably a better coach for the short term, he just doesn't have the personality to handle the stress. I think there are a lot of coaches that are potentially just as good, but can't maintain it to the point that it reinforces itself. And there are others that as driven as they are, aren't driven to the point that they will do anything to win. Mullen won't kiss *** in recruiting. Miles wouldn't adjust and let coordinators do things different than what he wanted. We'll see how Dabo sustains it.

I think the driven part is the key. I can't see Saban kissing *** either. The problem with *** kissing is that it bites you later on, as the players run the show. I think you can be a great salesman but at the same time not kiss ***. I also think Mullen's problem is that he's just an ******* and does not hide that, he really needs to minimize that aspect. Doesn't have to kill it off completely, but just not let that be the overriding characteristic.

Saban is also very confrontational, which works very well at the college level, but not so much the pros. Same with Mullen.

 

[The Situation]

I think Saban's formula for success is pretty simple.

1) Recruit the most talented players.

2) Teach these players to play disciplined/fundamentally sound football

After these 2 things the rest takes care of itself. Alabama has always had great defenses and a good ball control offense (great running backs and a solid not spectacular QB who doesn't turn it over). Honestly, I feel like their current offense is a step away from that core identity that they have always had.

They were in championship game last year and LSU really is that good this year. Once Burrow is gone lets see if they will be able to replace him. Also, Joe Brady will be moving on to bigger and better things in a hurry. I think this year the stars just aligned perfectly for LSU. I don't know if Orgeron will be able to achieve the same level of sustained success that Saban brought to Bama. Right now I feel Clemson is the only other program that will have anything close to that.

Yeah but you can't just snap your fingers and decide to be a great recruiter. That has to come from somewhere, and you have to have something to sell. But like others have said, seems he just has an insatiable drive and has refined his sales approach to maximize the benefit there.