Tax The Rich

fatpiggy

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Of course they did things to hurt us. Guys like Bezos became a billionaire by paying his staff poverty wages and the rest of us are forced to supplement their income with thru govt services. 25% of Walmart employees are on food stamps for fuqs sake.
They get to be billionaires by squeezing every single drop of cash out of us.
I'll address your first claim. Do you think it's fair to say Bezos paid his staff poverty wages when he has created, by AI estmates, thousands of millionaires? In addition, think about how many people benefit from being able to order something and have it delivered to their doorstep? How many lives did that change?

I just don't think i can agree with that premise.
 
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bdgan

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So why do democrats propose tax policies that affect people making close to that while talking about billionaires not paying their fair share? I agree with you that is ridiculous.
I think the answer is simple. Going after billionaires (800 people) plays well politically but there aren't nearly enough of them to make the money needed to support more social programs or reduce the deficit. That requires going after the 3,000,000 people who make $400k.
 

BelemNole

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I'll address your first claim. Do you think it's fair to say Bezos paid his staff poverty wages when he has created, by AI estmates, thousands of millionaires? In addition, thing about how many people benefit from being able to order something and have it delivered to their doorstep? How many lives did that change?

I just don't think i can agree with that premise.
He created them? Those talented people wouldn't have been successful in other places if he wasn't there exploiting the workers?
 

fatpiggy

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He created them? Those talented people wouldn't have been successful in other places if he wasn't there exploiting the workers?
What other places? Someone has to do the grunt work to set the company up. It doesn't just fall in place. It's very difficult to make happen and requires hours upon hours of dedication and hard, accurate, work. Other people can do it, that's what freedom is. But they choose not too for whatever reason, and that is freedom also. Nothing wrong with either choice. But we should not punish success and effort.

If they were successful somewhere else, you would still say they were exploited. By that rational, everyone is exploited. What do you mean by exploited? Given a fair market wage? A fair market wage is not exploitation.
 
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BelemNole

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What other places? Someone has to do the grunt work to set the company up. It doesn't just fall in place. It's very difficult to make happen and requires hours upon hours of dedication and hard, accurate, work. Other people can do it, that's what freedom is. But they choose not too for whatever reason, and that is freedom also. Nothing wrong with either choice. But we should not punish success and effort.

If they were successful somewhere else, you would still say they were exploited. By that rational, everyone is exploited. What do you mean by exploited? Given a fair market wage? A fair market wage is not exploitation.
What are you rambling about. The people bezos made millionaires are all white colored people with significant valuable skill-sets. They could have been successful in any other company in the technology insudstry.
The people being exploited are the rank and file like Amazon factory workers who have to do things like pee in jugs or ignore their dead coworker on the floor.
 

fatpiggy

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What are you rambling about. The people bezos made millionaires are all white colored people with significant valuable skill-sets. They could have been successful in any other company in the technology insudstry.
The people being exploited are the rank and file like Amazon factory workers who have to do things like pee in jugs or ignore their dead coworker on the floor.
Are you one of the race hustlers? What does White colored have to do with it?

If they would have been successful anywhere, they should have started a company. They could even compete with Bezos if he was making too much money. But they didn't did they. I wonder why?
 

baltimorened

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He created them? Those talented people wouldn't have been successful in other places if he wasn't there exploiting the workers?
why would anyone work for someone who exploited them? I would expect that when they were offered a job they had a choice to accept or decline...
 

baltimorened

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Are you one of the race hustlers? What does White colored have to do with it?

If they would have been successful anywhere, they should have started a company. They could even compete with Bezos if he was making too much money. But they didn't did they. I wonder why?
I was wondering the same thing. we went from exploited workers to white colored .workers with skills. That might lead one to believe that the others had lesser skills.

I don't know why the exploited workers just didn't start their own company.
 

scotchtiger

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I think the answer is simple. Going after billionaires (800 people) plays well politically but there aren't nearly enough of them to make the money needed to support more social programs or reduce the deficit. That requires going after the 3,000,000 people who make $400k.

So that begs the question, why the F do they spend so much time talking about billionaires when they really want to just squeeze even more money from millions of us?
 

baltimorened

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So that begs the question, why the F do they spend so much time talking about billionaires when they really want to just squeeze even more money from millions of us?
simple, you start with creating the environment for higher taxes, then when the promised revenues don't materialize it's easier to just move down one level, then another.

That's why I favor a surcharge on earnings over a certain level. Once you do that you can increase it by 1% or so and leave the little guys alone
 

BelemNole

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Are you one of the race hustlers? What does White colored have to do with it?

If they would have been successful anywhere, they should have started a company. They could even compete with Bezos if he was making too much money. But they didn't did they. I wonder why?
What in the blue hell are you talking about? I was assuming that all the hypothetical millionaires bezos 'created' were executives working for Amazon. Yes, those people could have found success in most any tech company.

But sure, race hustling. JFC dude.
 
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BelemNole

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I was wondering the same thing. we went from exploited workers to white colored .workers with skills. That might lead one to believe that the others had lesser skills.

I don't know why the exploited workers just didn't start their own company.
It's easier to understand if you read all the posts and try to follow along.
I pointed out that Billionaires employ people who are paid and treated so poorly they need govt programs to survive.
He made some comment about all the hypothecial millionaires Bezos created and I pointed out that those people would have been successful anywhere.
If you want I can draw some pictures.
 
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baltimorened

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What in the blue hell are you talking about? I was assuming that all the hypothetical millionaires bezos 'created' were executives working for Amazon. Yes, those people could have found success in most any tech company.

But sure, race hustling. JFC dude.
not so according to AI...There is no exact, official number disclosed by Amazon for how many non-executive employees became millionaires specifically on the day of the IPO (May 15, 1997), but it is widely understood that a significant portion of early employees, including those in non-executive roles, became millionaires or multi-millionaires by holding onto their stock options

Back in those days, maybe before your time, people at all levels took jobs in these companies at low salaries and accepted stock options as part their compensation. When the companies went public, these lower level people cashed in.
 

baltimorened

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It's easier to understand if you read all the posts and try to follow along.
I pointed out that Billionaires employ people who are paid and treated so poorly they need govt programs to survive.
He made some comment about all the hypothecial millionaires Bezos created and I pointed out that those people would have been successful anywhere.
If you want I can draw some pictures.
No picture necessary, I totally understand what you're posting... what I'm trying to point out is that your statement that employees are paid and treated so poorly that they need govt programs to survive....that's about as generalized a statement as anyone could make. Not everyone on govt programs works for a billionaire, and not everyone who works for a billionaire is on govt programs....remember we're a country where capital is raised though stock ownership. Disney for example is owned by many, many, many people who own stock,. They don't work for a billionaire per se. They work for you and i as shareholders. Bezos owns tons of shares but he doesn't run the company any longer he's currently the Executive Chairman..The current CEO and day to day "manager" is not a billionaire.

Of course people who worked for Bezos could have been successful elsewhere, which then raises the question that since that's true, why would they work in a place where they were exploited? These two things just seem incompatible to me.
 
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BelemNole

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No picture necessary, I totally understand what you're posting... what I'm trying to point out is that your statement that employees are paid and treated so poorly that they need govt programs to survive....that's about as generalized a statement as anyone could make. Not everyone on govt programs works for a billionaire, and not everyone who works for a billionaire is on govt programs....remember we're a country where capital is raised though stock ownership. Disney for example is owned by many, many, many people who own stock,. They don't work for a billionaire per se. They work for you and i as shareholders. Bezos owns tons of shares but he doesn't run the company any longer he's currently the Executive Chairman..The current CEO and day to day "manager" is not a billionaire.

Of course people who worked for Bezos could have been successful elsewhere, which then raises the question that since that's true, why would they work in a place where they were exploited? These two things just seem incompatible to me.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. That Bezos didn't exploit ALL of his employees? Ok. Sure.
That because early employees got rich it makes it ok that current warehouse staff has to work around a dead coworker?
Or that because other people are on food stamps it's ok that a quarter of the people who work for the Walton's make so little they rely on it but because others own stock too that's cool?
 

Moral

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. That Bezos didn't exploit ALL of his employees? Ok. Sure.
That because early employees got rich it makes it ok that current warehouse staff has to work around a dead coworker?
Or that because other people are on food stamps it's ok that a quarter of the people who work for the Walton's make so little they rely on it but because others own stock too that's cool?

Some.of.me.fuys make.me.reapize that there were probably regular ashols arguing on behalf of company towns. I know that there were people defending the radium clock companies.
 
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baltimorened

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. That Bezos didn't exploit ALL of his employees? Ok. Sure.
That because early employees got rich it makes it ok that current warehouse staff has to work around a dead coworker?
Or that because other people are on food stamps it's ok that a quarter of the people who work for the Walton's make so little they rely on it but because others own stock too that's cool?
points,...Bezos does not run Amazon...billionaires, do not typically run day to day operations of the companies they founded...not all the people who became millionaires were upper level employees, not everyone who works for a company started by a billionaire is on a government program. Since everyone who worked for billionaire is capable of succes other companies than they're not exploited in their current position they can leave and become more successful.

In general your original post was full of generalizations most of which do not have basis in fact. I respect your feelings, and you're not alone in them. But people accept jobs and when they do they agree to hours, benefits and salary. If they don't want to work for those, they are totally free to take their talents otherwise. As you pointed out most of the people at Amazon could have left and become successful in another place. But they choose to stay at Amazon, so how can they be exploited?
 

baltimorened

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Some.of.me.fuys make.me.reapize that there were probably regular ashols arguing on behalf of company towns. I know that there were people defending the radium clock companies.
sorry, but you come across as someone really unhappy with their lot in life and blame someone else for their inadequacies. If you're not satisfied there are plenty of ways to improve your skill set, but it's not the company's fault you're at the level you are. Maybe you're just not good enough.

I'm sure you're a wonderful human being though.
 

BelemNole

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points,...Bezos does not run Amazon...billionaires, do not typically run day to day operations of the companies they founded...not all the people who became millionaires were upper level employees, not everyone who works for a company started by a billionaire is on a government program. Since everyone who worked for billionaire is capable of succes other companies than they're not exploited in their current position they can leave and become more successful.

In general your original post was full of generalizations most of which do not have basis in fact. I respect your feelings, and you're not alone in them. But people accept jobs and when they do they agree to hours, benefits and salary. If they don't want to work for those, they are totally free to take their talents otherwise. As you pointed out most of the people at Amazon could have left and become successful in another place. But they choose to stay at Amazon, so how can they be exploited?
How do any of your 'feelings' expressed above counter my original point that Bezos making his billions does in fact hurt people in the process?
 

McLovin32

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sorry, but you come across as someone really unhappy with their lot in life and blame someone else for their inadequacies. If you're not satisfied there are plenty of ways to improve your skill set, but it's not the company's fault you're at the level you are. Maybe you're just not good enough.
The personal insults are always a sign that you're on the right side of a discussion.
 
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baltimorened

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How do any of your 'feelings' expressed above counter my original point that Bezos making his billions does in fact hurt people in the process?
so, how has Bezos billions hurt people. Now I'm pretty sure that out of the approximate 1.5 million employees at Amazon, somebody has been hurt. But I'm anticipating you're talking in greater numbers. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I've had a brother and sister work at Amazon and they had really good experiences..and they were not executive level employees.
 

baltimorened

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The personal insults are always a sign that you're on the right side of a discussion.
not meant as an insult. Just my impression of your post. That's the way I interpreted what you wrote. You don't come across as a happy, satisfied person. Maybe I misinterpreted and if that's the case, sorry.
 

fsu1jreed

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Of course they did things to hurt us. Guys like Bezos became a billionaire by paying his staff poverty wages and the rest of us are forced to supplement their income with thru govt services. 25% of Walmart employees are on food stamps for fuqs sake.
They get to be billionaires by squeezing every single drop of cash out of us.

Fvcking facts
 
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McLovin32

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not meant as an insult. Just my impression of your post. That's the way I interpreted what you wrote. You don't come across as a happy, satisfied person. Maybe I misinterpreted and if that's the case, sorry.
You don't know what he does for work. Not even the field he's in.

"but it's not the company's fault you're at the level you are. Maybe you're just not good enough"

That's a blatant insult, and to attempt to tell anyone it's not just makes you look silly. At least be man enough to own it.
 
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fatpiggy

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You don't know what he does for work. Not even the field he's in.

"but it's not the company's fault you're at the level you are. Maybe you're just not good enough"

That's a blatant insult, and to attempt to tell anyone it's not just makes you look silly. At least be man enough to own it.
Seems a little overly sensitive.
 

baltimorened

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You don't know what he does for work. Not even the field he's in.

"but it's not the company's fault you're at the level you are. Maybe you're just not good enough"

That's a blatant insult, and to attempt to tell anyone it's not just makes you look silly.
sorry, just don't see it that way. The way I read his post he was attempting to make a point about the company town which has a specific connotation about employer's relations with employees..and not in a good way. Like I said if I misread his intent, sorry.

Should I know or care what field he's in? if yes, then what is his field?

It's not a disgrace to be stuck at level within an organization everyone reaches their terminal level at some point in their career...I did, so will you....ever ever read "up the organizations" or peter principle"?

I see things differently than a lot of you. If you're not happy with your job or salary, leave and get another job...happens to lots of people all the time. Complaining about it doesn't solve anything. Jeff Bezos started with nothing but an idea and some money he made at Goldman and now employs 1.5-1.6 million people. I don't think that's cause for disdain.
 
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McLovin32

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sorry, just don't see it that way. The way I read his post he was attempting to make a point about the company town which has a specific connotation about employer's relations with employees..and not in a good way. Like I said if I misread his intent, sorry.

Should I know or care what field he's in? if yes, then what is his field?

It's not a disgrace to be stuck at level within an organization everyone reaches their terminal level at some point in their career...I did, so will you....ever ever read "up the organizations" or peter principle"?

I see things differently than a lot of you. If you're not happy with your job or salary, leave and get another job...happens to lots of people all the time. Complaining about it doesn't solve anything. Jeff Bezos started with nothing but an idea and some money he made at Goldman and now employs 1.5-1.6 million people. I don't think that's cause for disdain.
Totes mcgotes
 
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Huey Grey 2

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sorry, but you come across as someone really unhappy with their lot in life and blame someone else for their inadequacies. If you're not satisfied there are plenty of ways to improve your skill set, but it's not the company's fault you're at the level you are. Maybe you're just not good enough.

I'm sure you're a wonderful human being though.
No offense but your takes are complete garbage. You play the greatest hits of someone who is only willing to see one side of employment and then throw out personal insults when challenged on those takes.
 
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baltimorened

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No offense but your takes are complete garbage. You play the greatest hits of someone who is only willing to see one side of employment and then throw out personal insults when challenged on those takes.
boy it really seems as if i've hit a nerve that's close to home...
 
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scotchtiger

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Hell, I'd be thrilled if the top 1% paid 16% on all of their income.

I know that's a downer for you... sorry.

I’m top 1% and pay nearly double that just at the federal level. But your party doesn’t think I pay enough as evidenced by their tax proposals. How do you explain that?
 

baltimorened

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Hell, I'd be thrilled if the top 1% paid 16% on all of their income.

I know that's a downer for you... sorry.
from Google search.....you should be ecstatic then ...........The top 1% of US earners pay an average effective federal tax rate of approximately 26%–30%. While this is higher than the average taxpayer's rate, it can be lower than some middle-class Americans when accounting for all tax types. The top 1% holds 22.4% of total US income and pays over 38% of total individual income taxes,
 

Huey Grey 2

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from Google search.....you should be ecstatic then ...........The top 1% of US earners pay an average effective federal tax rate of approximately 26%–30%. While this is higher than the average taxpayer's rate, it can be lower than some middle-class Americans when accounting for all tax types. The top 1% holds 22.4% of total US income and pays over 38% of total individual income taxes,
Tax rate of the 400 richest Americans is 8.2. That sound fair to you?

 

Huey Grey 2

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I’m top 1% and pay nearly double that just at the federal level. But your party doesn’t think I pay enough as evidenced by their tax proposals. How do you explain that?
That you made it up. There's no way you're paying 32 just in federal. You would have to be doing your taxes yourself with zero effort to do them correctly. Is that what you're saying you're doing?
 

Huey Grey 2

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sorry, just don't see it that way. The way I read his post he was attempting to make a point about the company town which has a specific connotation about employer's relations with employees..and not in a good way. Like I said if I misread his intent, sorry.

Should I know or care what field he's in? if yes, then what is his field?

It's not a disgrace to be stuck at level within an organization everyone reaches their terminal level at some point in their career...I did, so will you....ever ever read "up the organizations" or peter principle"?

I see things differently than a lot of you. If you're not happy with your job or salary, leave and get another job...happens to lots of people all the time. Complaining about it doesn't solve anything. Jeff Bezos started with nothing but an idea and some money he made at Goldman and now employs 1.5-1.6 million people. I don't think that's cause for disdain.
Bezos parents gave him $250k to start Amazon on 1995. He most definitely did not start with nothing. That's an insane amount to be given in 1995 when you think about it.
 

baltimorened

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Bezos parents gave him $250k to start Amazon on 1995. He most definitely did not start with nothing. That's an insane amount to be given in 1995 when you think about it.
so couple of things...the 2026 equivalent to $250k in 1995 is about $550,000.....that's a lot to many people but not to others. Besides, his parents gave hime money, he might, with a little more effort, borrowed the money or got some co investors. If you know your way around money, there's usually a way.

so he turned $250 into $290 billion or so. ....
 

scotchtiger

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You need a much better accountant.

That you made it up. There's no way you're paying 32 just in federal. You would have to be doing your taxes yourself with zero effort to do them correctly. Is that what you're saying you're doing?

I know you guys are new here, but this topic has been thoroughly addressed. I’ll probably pay around 29% federal only this year (haven’t filed yet). Have paid north of 30% in other years.

Point being, MOST of the top 1% pay a high rate and more than their fair share.

However, there are some very very low IQ people who see the tax rates of the super wealthy (ex billionaires) and attribute that to all of the top 1%, which starts around $750K. Of course these two income and wealth levels have nearly nothing to do with one another, and anyone with even a middle school level understanding of finance knows that.

Then you have politicians who pray upon these simpletons in a very sad way. They talk about billionaires on one hand, then propose policies that jack up taxes for hardworking families who just happen to be doing pretty well. All under the broad veil of the “rich” don’t pay their fair share. All with messaging intended to incite bitterness and envy in order to fuel positions that clearly and mathematically make no sense.

And if you guys think there is some magic cheat code in the tax system once you hit 1%, you are just buying this political spin. I have a good accountant. But I don’t own a business nor is most of my income from commercial real estate holdings like the billionaire example in the OP. Most of us face the full brunt of our progressive tax system and pay far more both in effective rate and actual dollars than pretty much anyone else. We should be thanked, not treated with disdain and seen as a target from which to extract even more tax revenue.
 
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fatpiggy

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Bezos parents gave him $250k to start Amazon on 1995. He most definitely did not start with nothing. That's an insane amount to be given in 1995 when you think about it.
250k in 1995 is about 500k in todays dollars.

Far, far, far from an insane amount. It's a relatively small amount as far as starting a business goes imo.

Edit: sorry, see Ned addressed this above.