Tatum.....WoW !

[sheyduke]

Swervin, not arguing with you just don’t see it. Sure his shot can improve( he has a slow and low release on it), at 6’10” he should dominate smaller guards. Now his speed for his size is unreal but so is Embids.

In this ages NBA most of the bigs coming in are learning to shoot threes and defend multiple positions handle the ball and penetrate.

 

[hart2chesson]

This is what makes message boards fun. I dont follow the NBA nearly as close as the rest of you guys, but I admire Swervin for standing up for his views. Everyone has opinions....Hope all of you had a nice Christmas, and Santa was good to all...

OFC

 

[Swervin_Irvin_Duke]

Just sayin they debated it is all, he is still on generational talent level statistically.

 

[sheyduke]

Just sayin they debated it is all, he is still on generational talent level statistically.

Not for nothing but those were the same three yesterday talking about how easy he is to predict in scouting reports because of his poor shooting. My son would agree with your assessment but great I don’t see. Now has he came in about ten years ago when the traditional Big stayed down low I would agree but now we’re seeing seven footers guarding out on the perimeter and shooting from there as well.

 

[gottagonow]

Personally he's not my favorite NBA player ever but for everything he can do on the court LeBron James is the best to ever play basketball in my lifetime so far.

 

[Tross282003]

Personally he's not my favorite NBA player ever but for everything he can do on the court LeBron James is the best to ever play basketball in my lifetime so far.

Jordan was the best to play in my lifetime. Jordan’s competitiveness was unmatched. He played when he had a flu and 104 degree tempeture. He was the best defensive and offensive player in league for years. No one really rivaled him. He never lost a championship. Scottie Pippen was
Nothing without Michael Jordan.

Shaq could have been one of the best ever but he never has Jordan’s passion or desire.

Wilt Chamberlin was the best ever though but that was before my lifetime.

 

[dukiejay]

Yeah, for anyone who watched Jordan play, I have a hard time understanding how you can’t say him. Jordan passed every single test with flying colors. Every. Single. One. He wasn’t a great shooter? He made himself one. Couldn’t play defense early in his career? Became one of the best defenders ever. Big nuts? How about big nuts made of steel? He also retired in the prime of his career, sat out almost two years, then came back and won it three years in a row. He also never, ever lost in the Finals. Ever. In six appearances. Hell, not one of those series got past six games.

That said, I’m 40 years old and supposedly basketball existed before I came along. Did anyone do something close to that before him?

 

[dukesince91]

Yeah, for anyone who watched Jordan play, I have a hard time understanding how you can’t say him. Jordan passed every single test with flying colors. Every. Single. One. He wasn’t a great shooter? He made himself one. Couldn’t play defense early in his career? Became one of the best defenders ever. Big nuts? How about big nuts made of steel? He also retired in the prime of his career, sat out almost two years, then came back and won it three years in a row. He also never, ever lost in the Finals. Ever. In six appearances. Hell, not one of those series got past six games.

That said, I’m 40 years old and supposedly basketball existed before I came along. Did anyone do something close to that before him?

Different sport, but I think Pete Rose did.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

Yeah, for anyone who watched Jordan play, I have a hard time understanding how you can’t say him. Jordan passed every single test with flying colors. Every. Single. One. He wasn’t a great shooter? He made himself one. Couldn’t play defense early in his career? Became one of the best defenders ever. Big nuts? How about big nuts made of steel? He also retired in the prime of his career, sat out almost two years, then came back and won it three years in a row. He also never, ever lost in the Finals. Ever. In six appearances. Hell, not one of those series got past six games.

That said, I’m 40 years old and supposedly basketball existed before I came along. Did anyone do something close to that before him?

Jordan was for sure the G.O.A.T. those Celtics of the 50's and 60's who won all of those titles were great,but as a team..i doubt that the Bulls would have won even one of their titles with out Jordan

 

[GAAP_rivals]

He also never, ever lost in the Finals. Ever. In six appearances. Hell, not one of those series got past six games.

The Western Conference had no great teams at that time. The Bulls played 5 different teams in those 6 years -- LA, Portland, Phoenix, Seattle and Utah (twice).

Jordan won 6 titles with Phil Jackson as coach. Kobe won 5 titles with Jackson as coach. Lebron never had Jackson as coach. Heck, Lebron serves as de facto coach (and general manager) in Cleveland.

If you are a person who considers off-the-court behavior when evaluating who the true superstars are, Jordan falls completely off the map -- gambling, womanizing, ignoring social causes, etc.

 

[Liftee]

I know this thread is about Tatum, but anyone who saw Oscar Robertson play saw a guy who averaged near a triple double each year on a mediocre team, while shooting 50% from the field. Oscar was the 1960's equivalent of Lebron, bigger than anyone he played against but very talented. He had a mean competitive streak but like I said played in small markets with average personnel. He was the best I ever saw, at least until Jordan perfected his game midway through his NBA career.

 

[hart2chesson]

I know this thread is about Tatum, but anyone who saw Oscar Robertson play saw a guy who averaged near a triple double each year on a mediocre team, while shooting 50% from the field. Oscar was the 1960's equivalent of Lebron, bigger than anyone he played against but very talented. He had a mean competitive streak but like I said played in small markets with average personnel. He was the best I ever saw, at least until Jordan perfected his game midway through his NBA career.

Terrific! Played both w/the Cincinnati Royals and later w/the Bucks....OFC

 

[dukiejay]

The Western Conference had no great teams at that time. The Bulls played 5 different teams in those 6 years -- LA, Portland, Phoenix, Seattle and Utah (twice).

Jordan won 6 titles with Phil Jackson as coach. Kobe won 5 titles with Jackson as coach. Lebron never had Jackson as coach. Heck, Lebron serves as de facto coach (and general manager) in Cleveland.

If you are a person who considers off-the-court behavior when evaluating who the true superstars are, Jordan falls completely off the map -- gambling, womanizing, ignoring social causes, etc.

I agree about the Western Conference. The Lakers were getting old by that time, unfortunately. Would have been fun to see Jordan be Jordan a little earlier to compete with Boston and Detroit, as well. But I think there were pretty good teams, it was just that Jordan was so good.

The Jackson argument has and can be spun both ways. No doubt Phil Jackson is one of the greatest coaches ever, but he coached uber-talented teams, too.

Lastly, I left off Jordan's off-court stuff on-purpose. That's part of who he ultimately is, but I'm not even going to try and defend some of that stuff because it's indefensible.

 

[Piles]

Not being the Grinch here but am I the only one on here that does not like the NBA? I love college basketball and I have seen what the league has done to it over the years. I want to support guys like Tatum and Kyrie , but they were literally at Duke for like 3-4 months. Now players like Reddick and Battier I am 100% behind. I may be the only one on here that thinks this way, but just my opinion.

 

[dukiejay]

Not being the Grinch here but am I the only one on here that does not like the NBA? I love college basketball and I have seen what the league has done to it over the years. I want to support guys like Tatum and Kyrie , but they were literally at Duke for like 3-4 months. Now players like Reddick and Battier I am 100% behind. I may be the only one on here that thinks this way, but just my opinion.

You’re not alone. A lot of people here aren’t fans of the NBA. Some of us are, though....but I’d say we’re in the minority.

 

[QC Dukie]

Not being the Grinch here but am I the only one on here that does not like the NBA? I love college basketball and I have seen what the league has done to it over the years. I want to support guys like Tatum and Kyrie , but they were literally at Duke for like 3-4 months. Now players like Reddick and Battier I am 100% behind. I may be the only one on here that thinks this way, but just my opinion.

You’re not the only one. I am not a fan of the nba at all. It’s all college b-ball for me. NBA is just not appealing to me. To each his own though.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

I much prefer the college game to...tho I do long for the days when your starting line up was 3 seniors and two juniors

 

[Mpm277]

Anybody see his between the legs crossover and eurostep against Charlotte? So smooth.

 

[timo0402]

Anybody see his between the legs crossover and eurostep against Charlotte? So smooth.

I did, really smooth. Him and Kyrie together is great for Duke fans that enjoy the association.

 

[dukiejay]

You’re not the only one. I am not a fan of the nba at all. It’s all college b-ball for me. NBA is just not appealing to me. To each his own though.

I prefer the college game, too....but I’m a pretty big NBA fan, as well. Although, I understand how some don’t.

 

[QC Dukie]

I prefer the college game, too....but I’m a pretty big NBA fan, as well. Although, I understand how some don’t.

DJ, I’m not knocking anyone who loves the nba. I’m just not a fan at all. Obviously I’d like our Dukies to do well in the league, but it’s painful for me to watch.

 

[sheyduke]

I prefer college however, I like the lesser teams in the NBA not the mega teams like Golden State, Cleveland and Boston. I’d like to see some of the lesser talented teams pushing the limits of expectations.

 

[timo0402]

Tatum and Kyrie last night were insane in that unreal comeback.

 

[SwatX1]

Those two are getting me interested in the NBA again, and I haven't been for a long time, but I love watching two of our guys being main men on a winning franchise.

 

[dbav]

I prefer the college game, too....but I’m a pretty big NBA fan, as well. Although, I understand how some don’t.

DJ, I’m not knocking anyone who loves the nba. I’m just not a fan at all. Obviously I’d like our Dukies to do well in the league, but it’s painful for me to watch.

I'm with QC. I have much more of an attachment to Duke so I gravitate toward that. I also like the passion of the college game more.

Frankly, if Kyrie and Tatum were teaming up on the Knicks, I'd probably start watching again, haha.

 

[DukeDenver]

The NBA is kind if like a holiday buffet that sits out from lunch to dinner. It’s nice to just sample it now and then and just stick to the good stuff. Great entertainment.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

Those two are getting me interested in the NBA again, and I haven't been for a long time, but I love watching two of our guys being main men on a winning franchise.

I'm also a Celtics fan which helps too!

 

[SwatX1]

The NBA is kind if like a holiday buffet that sits out from lunch to dinner. It’s nice to just sample it now and then and just stick to the good stuff. Great entertainment.

That's a great way to describe where I am. I have always been a hawks fan, but I find myself constantly checking spoetscanter or box scores to see how the Celtics did and what Kyrie and Tatum's stats were. Haven't been actually watching any games though. Some draft boards have Bagley going to the Hawks. That would peak my interest even more

 

[Piles]

It is hard for me to watch Tatum and know that 10 years ago or so he would still be playing for Duke his sophomore year and beyond. These days are hard being a die hard college basketball fan.

 

[Showenuff]

He's at it again tonight, kicking *** on the Cavs !

 

[denniden]

I'm also a Celtics fan which helps too!

It certainly is pretty cool. It would be nice if Bagley joined them next year.

 

[DukeDenver]

It certainly is pretty cool. It would be nice if Bagley joined them next year.

If the Lakers pick ends up #2, Boston might just get him. At the very least they'd get Ayton, Trae Young or Porter. The Celts are killing it.

 

[denniden]

If the Lakers pick ends up #2, Boston might just get him. At the very least they'd get Ayton, Trae Young or Porter. The Celts are killing it.

I can’t be positive but I think Young would be low on the list of players Boston would take if they got the Lakers pick. Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Doncic, and Bamba would most likely be the group of guys Boston would take. I would be thrilled with any one of those guys and even Young and yes Boston is in good shape going forward. Be something to see right now IMO if Gordon was playing.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

It certainly is pretty cool. It would be nice if Bagley joined them next year.

if only they had saved that number one pick

 

[denniden]

if only they had saved that number one pick

Brooklyn’s?

 

[Canadian Dukie]

Brooklyn’s?

yes,that one

 

[dukedevilz]

The Western Conference had no great teams at that time. The Bulls played 5 different teams in those 6 years -- LA, Portland, Phoenix, Seattle and Utah (twice).

Jordan won 6 titles with Phil Jackson as coach. Kobe won 5 titles with Jackson as coach. Lebron never had Jackson as coach. Heck, Lebron serves as de facto coach (and general manager) in Cleveland.

If you are a person who considers off-the-court behavior when evaluating who the true superstars are, Jordan falls completely off the map -- gambling, womanizing, ignoring social causes, etc.

No great teams? All of those teams were great. I would argue that they took down the second best team in the league each of those 6 years.

91 Lakers: 58-24 (made finals 9 out of 12 times from 1980-91)
92 Blazers: 57-25 (averaged 59.7 wins from 1990-92)
93 Suns: 62-20 (averaged 56.3 wins from 1989-95)
96 Sonics: 64-18 (averaged 59.5 wins from 1993-98)
97 Jazz: 64-18 (averaged 59.4 wins from 1995-2000)
98 Jazz: 62-20

Also, social causes? Were players really that involved in the 90's? If you're talking about nowadays, he's donated $1 million to a Community Police Relations Organization - and $1 mil to the NAACP. And just a couple of months ago, he donated $7 mil to establish two medical clinics in troubled Charlotte communities.

 

[denniden]

yes,that one

Wouldn’t have Kyrie though and that Brooklyn pick has little chance of being better than the Lakers pick in the next draft.

 

[dukiejay]

No great teams? All of those teams were great. I would argue that they took down the second best team in the league each of those 6 years.

91 Lakers: 58-24 (made finals 9 out of 12 times from 1980-91)
92 Blazers: 57-25 (averaged 59.7 wins from 1990-92)
93 Suns: 62-20 (averaged 56.3 wins from 1989-95)
96 Sonics: 64-18 (averaged 59.5 wins from 1993-98)
97 Jazz: 64-18 (averaged 59.4 wins from 1995-2000)
98 Jazz: 62-20

None of those teams were 'historically' good is the point, I think, he was trying to make. The Lakers were at the end of their run, and clearly their best years behind them. Of the others, none won a single championship. Now, one could also argue that part of the reason they didn't is because of Jordan, which is true, to an extent. The only team on that list I would classify as being on the cusp of 'historically' good, would be those Jazz teams.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Lebron > Jordan.