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Talent level Big 10 West

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SnohomishRed

All-Conference
Jan 31, 2005
8,642
1,937
0
It is a fact we have not developed our team physically as well as some other teams in the west. I believe that is changing. If in fact we are now not going to be out coached, talent I believe will be the deciding factor in who controls the division.

Total rivals point in the last 4 years by school
  1. NU - 7413
  2. WI - 6404
  3. Iowa - 5953
  4. Minn - 5591
  5. Purdue - 5157
  6. NW - 5068
  7. Illinois - 4665
All else equal we are recruiting almost a full class of talent better then most of the division. I have every faith Frost will get these guys ready to play and there is not a reason in the world we should not be in the Big10 title game most years. Wi will up their recruiting game to try and keep pace, Purdue has a strong coach and could challenge - Iowa will not change or adapt and will fall back some - Minn is a bit of a wild card and NW has strong development but is not a serious challenger on the recruiting front.

It is also important to note NU is recruiting at this level while having three bad seasons out of the last 4. At what level will we recruit when the results start showing??
 
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WoodRiverJennings

WoodRiverJennings

All-American
Mar 4, 2013
7,313
5,136
113
SnohomishRed said:
It is a fact we have not developed our team physically as well as some other teams in the west. I believe that is changing. If in fact we are now not going to be out coached, talent I believe will be the deciding factor in who controls the division.

Total rivals point in the last 4 years by school
  1. NU - 7413
  2. WI - 6404
  3. Iowa - 5953
  4. Minn - 5591
  5. Purdue - 5157
  6. NW - 5068
  7. Illinois - 4665
All else equal we are recruiting almost a full class of talent better then most of the division. I have every faith Frost will get these guys ready to play and there is not a reason in the world we should not be in the Big10 title game most years. Wi will up their recruiting game to try and keep pace, Purdue has a strong coach and could challenge - Iowa will not change or adapt and will fall back some - Minn is a bit of a wild card and NW has strong development but is not a serious challenger on the recruiting front.

It is also important to note NU is recruiting at this level while having three bad seasons out of the last 4. At what level will we recruit when the results start showing??
Click to expand...

We've got good reason to be optimistic. Especially with next year's potential signers.
 
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E

E.RogerCoswell

Freshman
Jun 3, 2015
121
58
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SnohomishRed said:
Wi will up their recruiting game to try and keep pace, Purdue has a strong coach and could challenge - Iowa will not change or adapt and will fall back some - Minn is a bit of a wild card and NW has strong development but is not a serious challenger on the recruiting front.
Click to expand...

Curious why you say so certainly that Wisconsin will up their game while iowa will fall back some. What data or facts support this?
 
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SnohomishRed

All-Conference
Jan 31, 2005
8,642
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E.RogerCoswell said:
Curious why you say so certainly that Wisconsin will up their game while iowa will fall back some. What data or facts support this?
Click to expand...
Kirk is just not a great recruiter and does not believe he can recruit better - Look at this years class for example. I think the other factor for Iowa is Frost is shutting down the inroads they had in Nebraska and will be competing for the better talent in Iowa. This will force Iowa to get new hunting grounds so to speak.

Wisconsin is already upping their game and is going after and landing some highly sought after kids this year. They have a much better image than Iowa national also.

These other coaches know the game is changing and Frost is going to have an impact
 
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S

SnohomishRed

All-Conference
Jan 31, 2005
8,642
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Tuco Salamanca said:
Now go back and subtract the Rivals points for all of the players that never made it to their school, transferred out or are no longer on the roster.
Click to expand...
This of course assumes other teams have no attrition or ours was more? Even if that is the case that does not mean the attrition will continue
 
E

E.RogerCoswell

Freshman
Jun 3, 2015
121
58
0
SnohomishRed said:
Kirk is just not a great recruiter and does not believe he can recruit better - Look at this years class for example. I think the other factor for Iowa is Frost is shutting down the inroads they had in Nebraska and will be competing for the better talent in Iowa. This will force Iowa to get new hunting grounds so to speak.

Wisconsin is already upping their game and is going after and landing some highly sought after kids this year. They have a much better image than Iowa national also.

These other coaches know the game is changing and Frost is going to have an impact
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I will say that Kirk is landing the guys he identified early on. There's a type of player that excels at Iowa and often times stars don't translate, see Josey Jewell (2 star), Mackey Award winner TJ Hockenson (2 star), Thorpe Award Winner Josh Jackson (2 star), etc. so Kirk will continue to finish in the 40's in terms of star rankings, but he'll get his guys.

And Nebraska has given Iowa Sean Prater, Jeff Tarpinian, Adam Shada, Seth Olsen, Nate Bazata, Drew Ott, and Noah Fant. 6 guys in 20 years doesn't really make for a pipeline that Iowa depends on. It sucked losing out on Nick Heinrich (congrats, Huskers!), but Iowa did just hold off the Buckeyes this week as they made a late push for Ohio linebacker Jestin Jacobs, so I think that will be a wash, ultimately.

Now if Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey got shut down, I'd say Iowa is headed for the basement of the Big Ten West.
 
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oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,472
2,013
113
Tuco Salamanca said:
Now go back and subtract the Rivals points for all of the players that never made it to their school, transferred out or are no longer on the roster.
Click to expand...
And if you did that, I'm sure you'd get basically the same order of teams.
 
RealTucoSalamanca

RealTucoSalamanca

Heisman
Aug 18, 2016
16,645
10,920
113
oldjar07 said:
And if you did that, I'm sure you'd get basically the same order of teams.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but until you do the math, you are just guessing.

edit -

If you just take the guys who didn't make it last cycle, plus Blades, and just the guys who left from the 2017 class, you are down 945 points.
 
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G

gghulsebus

Redshirt
Feb 4, 2003
20
6
0
The attrition with a coaching change is an important detail that recruiting rankings can never show.
 
D

dochay

Senior
Nov 7, 2004
1,537
467
0
The attrition doesn't really matter when it comes to transfers and no longer.on team. The team still signed them. Those things matter when it comes to wins and losses but not recruiting rankings. The gist of the post to me is Nebraska can pull better.classes historically than the rest of the West. With a good coaching staff and successful seasons it should only get better
 
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JohnRossEwing

All-American
Jul 4, 2013
11,899
5,284
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E.RogerCoswell said:
Fair enough. I will say that Kirk is landing the guys he identified early on. There's a type of player that excels at Iowa and often times stars don't translate, see Josey Jewell (2 star), Mackey Award winner TJ Hockenson (2 star), Thorpe Award Winner Josh Jackson (2 star), etc. so Kirk will continue to finish in the 40's in terms of star rankings, but he'll get his guys.

And Nebraska has given Iowa Sean Prater, Jeff Tarpinian, Adam Shada, Seth Olsen, Nate Bazata, Drew Ott, and Noah Fant. 6 guys in 20 years doesn't really make for a pipeline that Iowa depends on. It sucked losing out on Nick Heinrich (congrats, Huskers!), but Iowa did just hold off the Buckeyes this week as they made a late push for Ohio linebacker Jestin Jacobs, so I think that will be a wash, ultimately.

Now if Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey got shut down, I'd say Iowa is headed for the basement of the Big Ten West.
Click to expand...
Wait...so Kirk looks for players that no one else wants? I feel like that is a horrible plan. What is the success rate of that?

I feel like Kirk takes guys that he can get...then hopes for the best. I feel like he doesn't bother wasting time/resources on bigger fish.
 
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cecilB

Junior
Nov 1, 2001
6,601
321
0
* rankings are click bait. Outside of the obvious 5* type of kids, they are virtually worthless. The rankings of classes even more so. There are teams being debated in this thread whose worthless average star ranking is higher than teams ahead of them because of class size.

I find the infatuation with them amusing. These services and companies are populated with tech savvy guys, many that never put on a jock strap.

Programs, and there are some, that use this as a prospect screening, are not the ones that win. The ones that have an infrastructure and relationships to do their own evaluation, tend to be more stable and consistent programs.
 
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H

HUSKERFAN66

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2004
21,239
3,578
113
JohnRossEwing said:
Wait...so Kirk looks for players that no one else wants? I feel like that is a horrible plan. What is the success rate of that?

I feel like Kirk takes guys that he can get...then hopes for the best. I feel like he doesn't bother wasting time/resources on bigger fish.
Click to expand...
Dang that would be easy. Only recruit thosethose no offers!!!!
 
O

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,472
2,013
113
Tuco Salamanca said:
Maybe, but until you do the math, you are just guessing.

edit -

If you just take the guys who didn't make it last cycle, plus Blades, and just the guys who left from the 2017 class, you are down 945 points.
Click to expand...
Ok and what is it for the other teams? I'm sure there are other teams that had similar attrition and started out with ratings below ours, so they remain below us in terms of rivals talent.
 
E

E.RogerCoswell

Freshman
Jun 3, 2015
121
58
0
JohnRossEwing said:
Wait...so Kirk looks for players that no one else wants? I feel like that is a horrible plan. What is the success rate of that?

I feel like Kirk takes guys that he can get...then hopes for the best. I feel like he doesn't bother wasting time/resources on bigger fish.
Click to expand...

No Chris - he gets the guys he and the staff identify early on and they commit before they start making the rounds at all the Rivals camps and whatnot. They don't end up with a ton of stars and Iowa typically finishes in the 40's in recruiting, but I don't think the Iowa staff feels like they missed on a lot of guys. Especially in the last 4 years with a lot of younger guys on the Iowa staff. Less attrition, etc. I think Iowa will continue to look like they have on paper in recruiting, but I think the reports of the Hawkeyes' demise are greatly exaggerated. The OP might be onto something with a surge in Nebraska's recruiting vs. the rest of the West, but I don't think there's anything to say Iowa's going to slide back.

 
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Rcnut223

Sophomore
Apr 22, 2004
1,685
108
63
Tuco Salamanca said:
Now go back and subtract the Rivals points for all of the players that never made it to their school, transferred out or are no longer on the roster.
Click to expand...
Bingo

Signed Class really means nothing when they don't get too school or stay on the team. NU has had a very high attrition rate

Pull the current 2 deep for the Big west schools . tally the points then, won't be close to what you have in your current rankings
 
J

JohnRossEwing

All-American
Jul 4, 2013
11,899
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E.RogerCoswell said:
No Chris - he gets the guys he and the staff identify early on and they commit before they start making the rounds at all the Rivals camps and whatnot. They don't end up with a ton of stars and Iowa typically finishes in the 40's in recruiting, but I don't think the Iowa staff feels like they missed on a lot of guys. Especially in the last 4 years with a lot of younger guys on the Iowa staff. Less attrition, etc. I think Iowa will continue to look like they have on paper in recruiting, but I think the reports of the Hawkeyes' demise are greatly exaggerated. The OP might be onto something with a surge in Nebraska's recruiting vs. the rest of the West, but I don't think there's anything to say Iowa's going to slide back.

Click to expand...
Show me...stop the posting. Hahaha
 
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RealTucoSalamanca

RealTucoSalamanca

Heisman
Aug 18, 2016
16,645
10,920
113
dochay said:
The attrition doesn't really matter when it comes to transfers and no longer.on team. The team still signed them. Those things matter when it comes to wins and losses but not recruiting rankings. The gist of the post to me is Nebraska can pull better.classes historically than the rest of the West. With a good coaching staff and successful seasons it should only get better
Click to expand...

What? Who cares if you can pull them in, if they don't stick around, don't qualify or leave before they play, it's no different than never being signed to begin with.

If I sign 10 4 stars and lose 5, and another team signs 6 and loses 1. We both have five 4-stars. My recruiting rankings will look great, but I not necessarily my talent level.

The OP is talking about "talent level" not recruiting rankings.
 
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Headcard

Headcard

Heisman
Feb 2, 2005
192,509
20,878
113
The talent level in the West is on the rise.

Purdue will haul in two big time WR in Wright and Bell, to go along with Moore. That is a scary WR corp. And their overall class is pretty impressive.
Illinois has some super talented skill people in this class with Williams and Beason.
Minnesota will recruit better under Fleck
Iowa and Wisconsn will continue to do what they do, which has made them the best team in the West the last few years.
NW has a 5-Star QB transfer coming in and some new digs.
 
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H

HuskerAlum92

Junior
Jan 8, 2007
4,733
346
0
I don’t follow other teams closely enough to know for sure, but it seems we’ve lost more star power from the top end of our last 2-3 classes than most. So I tend to think our cupboard is more bare than average recruiting ranking would simply indicate.

Frost will fix this and has already made good progress, but we will lack depth in spots for another couple cycles.

What needs to happen is that we have less washouts. But if they are going to washout, do it quickly like McGriff.
 
P

pawildcat_rivals209725

Senior
Sep 15, 2006
12,698
996
0
SnohomishRed said:
It is a fact we have not developed our team physically as well as some other teams in the west. I believe that is changing. If in fact we are now not going to be out coached, talent I believe will be the deciding factor in who controls the division.

Total rivals point in the last 4 years by school
  1. NU - 7413
  2. WI - 6404
  3. Iowa - 5953
  4. Minn - 5591
  5. Purdue - 5157
  6. NW - 5068
  7. Illinois - 4665
All else equal we are recruiting almost a full class of talent better then most of the division. I have every faith Frost will get these guys ready to play and there is not a reason in the world we should not be in the Big10 title game most years. Wi will up their recruiting game to try and keep pace, Purdue has a strong coach and could challenge - Iowa will not change or adapt and will fall back some - Minn is a bit of a wild card and NW has strong development but is not a serious challenger on the recruiting front.

It is also important to note NU is recruiting at this level while having three bad seasons out of the last 4. At what level will we recruit when the results start showing??
Click to expand...

Frost should recruit well at Nebraska. As for Northwestern, there is already some indication that new facilities and some success on the field the past few seasons are boosting recruiting beyond 2019. The Cats will never have high Rivals points because we have little player attrition, which usually results in small classes.
 
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ihuskcorn

Senior
Feb 4, 2003
3,884
831
72
pawildcat said:
Frost should recruit well at Nebraska. As for Northwestern, there is already some indication that new facilities and some success on the field the past few seasons are boosting recruiting beyond 2019. The Cats will never have high Rivals points because we have little player attrition, which usually results in small classes.
Click to expand...

They are ranked #49 as of today. If that is an improvement -what were they before?
 
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phoenix4nu

All-Conference
May 10, 2009
9,774
2,088
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E.RogerCoswell said:
No Chris - he gets the guys he and the staff identify early on and they commit before they start making the rounds at all the Rivals camps and whatnot. They don't end up with a ton of stars and Iowa typically finishes in the 40's in recruiting, but I don't think the Iowa staff feels like they missed on a lot of guys. Especially in the last 4 years with a lot of younger guys on the Iowa staff. Less attrition, etc. I think Iowa will continue to look like they have on paper in recruiting, but I think the reports of the Hawkeyes' demise are greatly exaggerated. The OP might be onto something with a surge in Nebraska's recruiting vs. the rest of the West, but I don't think there's anything to say Iowa's going to slide back.

Click to expand...
I agree with this. Iowa will always be the same - mediocre most years, with a bad year or a good year every now and then.
 
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z28craz

All-Conference
Jan 5, 2004
3,349
1,300
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kwicasso said:
Lol tick tock means nothing. You'd have been better off saying 'Volleyball'.
Click to expand...

You have until September. Nebraska is on the rise and everyone with half a brain knows it. 2019 will be vastly different than 2017 or 2018. So enjoy because your “streak” comes to an end in 2019.
 
K

kwicasso_rivals334262

Sophomore
Mar 6, 2018
434
127
0
z28craz said:
You have until September. Nebraska is on the rise and everyone with half a brain knows it. 2019 will be vastly different than 2017 or 2018. So enjoy because your “streak” comes to an end in 2019.
Click to expand...

That was said since '15. Guys, let the Big 8 go. It's ok, be comfortable in your own skin. You have Wisconsin, Iowa, NW, Purdue to worry about. Then OSU, Michigan, PSU after that. It's ok to accept who you are. Embrace it, it's a great conference to be apart of. Essentially, you're trading money for cheap wins.
 
Z

z28craz

All-Conference
Jan 5, 2004
3,349
1,300
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kwicasso said:
That was said since '15. Guys, let the Big 8 go. It's ok, be comfortable in your own skin. You have Wisconsin, Iowa, NW, Purdue to worry about. Then OSU, Michigan, PSU after that. It's ok to accept who you are. Embrace it, it's a great conference to be apart of. Essentially, you're trading money for cheap wins.
Click to expand...

This isn’t Mike Riley’s team anymore. And we do embrace who we are. We are a true Blue Blood. We are in the top 5 of all time winning programs. We are 5 time National Champions, with two of the greatest teams in all of college football history. The only program in history that can match our 1990’s dynasty is current Alabama. We have one of, if not the, hottest young, up and coming coach in all of college football. He’s been compared to both Urban Myer and Nick Saban, not by Nebraska media, but by National Media. He has played or coached under the greatest minds in modern football. Bill Walsh, Tom Osborne, Bill Parcells, Bill Belicheck, Jon Gruden, Mike Tomlin, and Chip Kelly. We have a QB that has Heisman potential, and by Wednesday there’s a strong probability that we have 2 recruits that are finalists or both offensive and defensive national high school players of the year. As you were kicking your game winning field goal, at home, against a 4-7 team, the announcer was saying, “This Nebraska team is going to be a beast of a program in the next few years...”.

We have sucked for 20 years. That ends beginning in 2019. We probably won’t ever be any version of our 1990’s self, but I’ll put money on being a playoff team in the next 5 years.
 
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