Talent gap

[John_J_Rambo]

I still don't get how you can say that Pelini had a better resume to be a head coach. Hell I wouldn't have hired him again to be the DC. His defenses OFTEN had games where they just fell apart even at LSU. I think it happened twice to him that national championship year. Pelini had ZERO experience as a head coach. Frost had demonstrated proficiency at building and leading a college football program. A-Z. He had coached both sides of the ball. Pelini had exhibited neither the aptitude nor the temperament to be a head coach. I just shrugged my shoulders and figured Tom knew best when he hired him. Wrong answer.

1995-2003 he was position coach in the NFL for 5 playoff teams, including a super bowl winner and serving under Pete Carroll in New England

2003 took our D from 55th to 11th, led the country in turnovers, went 1-0 as interim HC

2004 - national title runner-up d coordinator for Bob Stoops

2005 - d coordinator for Les Miles, national title in 2008

I don't know, seems like a pretty good resume to me at the point of his hiring.

And I've skewered him time and again for his antics once hired. He's a horrible human and a stain on our legacy.

 

[dinglefritz]

Not sure how you knock someone for losing a Super Bowl. The reason the score was out of had was that Tampa Bay returned 3 interceptions for TDs. Callahan didn't throw those.
Take all that for what it's worth.

A good friend was tight with a WR on that team. He said that Callahan did nothing to adjust offensively. So yeah I'm bashing Callahan for losing a Super Bowl he should have won. It was clear that the defense somehow knew what they were going to do before they did it. The play calling was horrendous and it came straight from Callahan's mouth. The offense couldn't understand what the hell he was thinking. Go read some of the stuff that has come out since that game. Callahan blew that one regardless of who threw the pass. He still didn't have the college football resume that Frost does.

 

[dinglefritz]

1995-2003 he was position coach in the NFL for 5 playoff teams, including a super bowl winner and serving under Pete Carroll in New England

2003 took our D from 55th to 11th, led the country in turnovers, went 1-0 as interim HC

2004 - national title runner-up d coordinator for Bob Stoops

2005 - d coordinator for Les Miles, national title in 2008

I don't know, seems like a pretty good resume to me at the point of his hiring.

And I've skewered him time and again for his antics once hired. He's a horrible human and a stain on our legacy.

I've hired a fair number of professionals in my day and there's no way I would have hired Pelini over Frost based on what you listed. On the surface the resume is good. I would have looked deeper at what his roles were, how he performed those roles and then whether or not he had demonstrated the requirements of the job. Bo had never run a program forgetting the multiple problems he had shown. Period.

BTW, I don't view Bo as a terrible human. He's a flawed human with some bad issues. I'm no different. Thank God for Jesus because that's my only hope.

 

[jlb321_rivals110621]

resume gets you the job
results keep you the job

the question is what results are expected and when

 

[Crazyhole]

1995-2003 he was position coach in the NFL for 5 playoff teams, including a super bowl winner and serving under Pete Carroll in New England

2003 took our D from 55th to 11th, led the country in turnovers, went 1-0 as interim HC

2004 - national title runner-up d coordinator for Bob Stoops

2005 - d coordinator for Les Miles, national title in 2008

I don't know, seems like a pretty good resume to me at the point of his hiring.

And I've skewered him time and again for his antics once hired. He's a horrible human and a stain on our legacy.

It's not a bad resume, but Frost had as much time as a coordinator plus he had experience as a head coach with an undefeated season under his belt. The only reason he would have been considered in 2007 if Frost was available with his 2017 resume is because he was a defensive minded coach and our defense was a disaster prior to him. There's just no way you go with a coordinator over the national coach of the Year if both are available.

 

[jlb321_rivals110621]

Average class rank of the 3 recruiting classes prior to taking over the program

Frost - 25
Riley - 24.7




.

 

[Headcard]

Average class rank of the 3 recruiting classes prior to taking over the program

Frost - 25
Riley - 24.7




.

I know it isn't the point you are trying to make, but two coaches changes in such a short time and all the associated attrition has done a number on our roster. When Pelini came in, he was able to keep almost the entire roster together. Between keeping Watson and the offense intact and getting the defensive players fired up to play for him, he lost very few players. Riley and Frost both did system overhauls and lost a lot of players. So while the previous class ranks look good, very few of those guy are still around. I think I saw somewhere that there are over 100 new players since Frost took over.

 

[Rcnut223]

This is the situation where people say, “the recruiting services don’t know what they’re talking about”.

Then when you bring up Ohio State, that’s when they say, “look at the star rankings of the recruits”.

Bottom line - a team with much less talented players and the first year coach beat us. Talent was not the issue...

I agree, talent was not the issue , the problem in my opinion was half time adjustment made to our scheme , and then continued in-game adjustments made by CU.

Compounding the issue was the poor clock and game management as well as play calling.

This one was on the coaches as much as anything.

 

[Kato]

That is your opinion, not the facts. IF you're talking about just your average football program in need of a rebuild why in God's name would you pick Mr. 500 Riley, Blowout Bill or a guy who NEVER had run a college program and hated to recruit over a guy who had coached for Snyder, Kelley and either played or coached for some of the best coaches in the NFL? A guy who had taken an 0-12 team to an undefeated season in 2 years..... Forget the history with the Huskers, just his college football history should be enough but add in his NFL experience. Good heavens, IMO, it wouldn't have been close for me if I'm looking at those resumes.

Or why would you hire Bill knowing he was available because players he coached previously were about to pull a mutiny on his azz.

 

[dinglefritz]

Or why would you hire Bill knowing he was available because players he coached previously were about to pull a mutiny on his azz.

Callahan got hired out of desperation and a desire to make a "splash". Actually Pederson's exact words to a booster of substance acquaintance of mine was it was going to be a "wow" hire. That described Wannstedt at first until he backed out. SP really wanted an NFL head coach.

 

[inWV]

Once you get down the list from the usual list of high flying programs and take into account player development, the talent on the field is comparable for a lot of programs. Frost's problem is that he in Year 2 of a rebuild with a roster that he has substantially flipped. New players are like Gump's box of chocolates, you don't know what you are actually going to get. We were high on a kid like Mills based on GaTech video, but he hasn't shown yet. Maybe he never will be as advertised, or maybe he needs to shake off a couple of years of JUCO rust. Two young guys on the interior of the Oline that are playing their third collegiate game Saturday. One would think they'll be better as the season progresses. Everyone thought a guy like Kade Warner would be at least Steady Eddy at WR, while some of the younger guys were worked in, but he's been banged up and NU is relying on JD and a true freshman. AM can't find Noa on the field. Where is Miles Jones?
So is the issue one of not being as talented as we thought? Or is it one of a bunch of new pieces not quite fitting two games into the season, with a coaching staff trying to fix that?

 

[inWV]

Callahan got hired out of desperation and a desire to make a "splash". Actually Pederson's exact words to a booster of substance acquaintance of mine was it was going to be a "wow" hire. That described Wannstedt at first until he backed out. SP really wanted an NFL head coach.

At the time, I would have been satisfied with a Wannstedt hire, but wouldn't have considered it a wow hire.

 

[Crazyhole]

Once you get down the list from the usual list of high flying programs and take into account player development, the talent on the field is comparable for a lot of programs. Frost's problem is that he in Year 2 of a rebuild with a roster that he has substantially flipped. New players are like Gump's box of chocolates, you don't know what you are actually going to get. We were high on a kid like Mills based on GaTech video, but he hasn't shown yet. Maybe he never will be as advertised, or maybe he needs to shake off a couple of years of JUCO rust. Two young guys on the interior of the Oline that are playing their third collegiate game Saturday. One would think they'll be better as the season progresses. Everyone thought a guy like Kade Warner would be at least Steady Eddy at WR, while some of the younger guys were worked in, but he's been banged up and NU is relying on JD and a true freshman. AM can't find Noa on the field. Where is Miles Jones?
So is the issue one of not being as talented as we thought? Or is it one of a bunch of new pieces not quite fitting two games into the season, with a coaching staff trying to fix that?

There's a lot of truth there. We have guys who are known quantities like Amart, JD, Washington, and Warner who have proved themselves last year, a guy like Wandale who so far this year has proven himself, and then guys like Mills and Noa who proved themselves elsewhere. That's a pretty decent group of guys to start with but they are still needing to put it together as a group. There are also a lot of unknown quantities like Miles and Williams that could possibly end up being in the fray but we just don't know yet. The safe money is on "this is a work in progress", not on "there isn't enough talent to work with.

 

[allong69ks]

A good friend was tight with a WR on that team. He said that Callahan did nothing to adjust offensively. So yeah I'm bashing Callahan for losing a Super Bowl he should have won. It was clear that the defense somehow knew what they were going to do before they did it. The play calling was horrendous and it came straight from Callahan's mouth. The offense couldn't understand what the hell he was thinking. Go read some of the stuff that has come out since that game. Callahan blew that one regardless of who threw the pass. He still didn't have the college football resume that Frost does.

Still not sold......

Frost's 13-0 UCF team is 8-5 or 9-4 in the SEC (and yes...I'm aware that they beat Auburn in the bowl....a bowl that they didn't want to be at). Nebraska has fired 2 coaches in the last 15 years that were able to get to 9-4 pretty consistently.

 

[Kato]

Still not sold......

Frost's 13-0 UCF team is 8-5 or 9-4 in the SEC (and yes...I'm aware that they beat Auburn in the bowl....a bowl that they didn't want to be at). Nebraska has fired 2 coaches in the last 15 years that were able to get to 9-4 pretty consistently.

But in his conference he still beat everyone and then a SEC team that throttled Georgia that year.

 

[jeans15]

We have enough talent to not be sub 500 3 out of 4 years

Missing bowl games and extra practices hurts our program.

 

[Husker4lyfe15]

We've F'd up every single hire since 2002 and IMO the worst hire of the bunch was Pelini because it took us so long to can him. We've got this hire right this time and Frost will get it done. I have no doubt about it. He's going to get Osborne like time to win big IMO.

I’m not even going to address your Pelini comment because that’s the most asinine thing I’ve read here all day...

That being said you’re right frost will get ample time - But in order to compete with the top 5-7 teams who actually have a shot at winning the national title, you’re going to need to out-coach opponents to a 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, type of season to kick start your recruiting to the next level of kids. We recruit well enough that we SHOULD beat the CU’s and the Illinois’s etc. of the world. But 2 games into year 2 we’ve been outcoached in both games. Sorry but it’s concerning to me

 

[oldjar07]

Still not sold......

Frost's 13-0 UCF team is 8-5 or 9-4 in the SEC (and yes...I'm aware that they beat Auburn in the bowl....a bowl that they didn't want to be at). Nebraska has fired 2 coaches in the last 15 years that were able to get to 9-4 pretty consistently.

BS that was a legit top 10 team at UCF. He'd be 10-2 or 9-3 at worst in a P5 conference.

 

[allong69ks]

But in his conference he still beat everyone and then a SEC team that throttled Georgia that year.

You're forgetting that Auburn in return got throttled by Georgia in the SEC Championship game...relegating them to a bowl they didn't want to be plying in....and it showed.

I'm not saying UCF wasn't good...but they weren't that good, and neither was the conference. Big difference between prepping for and rising up for 1-2 big opponents a season and having to grind every week. The bottom of the major conferences are much more competitive than they were 20-30 years ago.

Success at a mid-major doesn't equate to success in the P5...as CU found out with Dan Hawkins (53-11 at Boise State....8 of those losses came in 2 seasons....and just had UC Davis in the FCS quarterfinals).

 

[allong69ks]

BS that was a legit top 10 team at UCF. He'd be 10-2 or 9-3 at worst in a P5 conference.

You seriously think that team could have been 10-2 in the SEC?

OK.....

 

[allong69ks]

I still don't get how you can say that Pelini had a better resume to be a head coach. Hell I wouldn't have hired him again to be the DC. His defenses OFTEN had games where they just fell apart even at LSU. I think it happened twice to him that national championship year. Pelini had ZERO experience as a head coach. Frost had demonstrated proficiency at building and leading a college football program. A-Z. He had coached both sides of the ball. Pelini had exhibited neither the aptitude nor the temperament to be a head coach. I just shrugged my shoulders and figured Tom knew best when he hired him. Wrong answer.

I don't know about resumes, but here's what I do know......

Pelini went 10-4 in his first 14 games. He took two pretty bad butt kickings from Oklahoma and Missouri in his first season....and beat them both the next season.

I am very sure that the Omaha World Herald didn't publish and sell a graphic novel on Frost before he had ever coached a game in anticipation of being 5-9 in his first 14 games with 2 losses to Colorado...not to mention a home loss to Troy.

BTW--Osborne and his players seemed to have treated Colorado, a team they'd throttle by 50 points each year, with more respect (at least in public) in their horrible years of the late 70s and early 80s than Frost and his players did this year. It's not that I care if they like or respect Colorado or not. The point is that there were several players that ran off at the mouth to the media during that week, and they are coached by a guy that let them do it. Pretty bold from a guy that was 5-8 as Nebraska's coach heading into that game. The Denver Post (I think) had an article where the Nebraska players that were from Colorado talked about how they were glad they didn't end up in Boulder. Osborne, Solich, and Peini all had guys from Colorado on their roster, and you didn't see that go on.

 

[Kato]

You're forgetting that Auburn in return got throttled by Georgia in the SEC Championship game...relegating them to a bowl they didn't want to be plying in....and it showed.

I'm not saying UCF wasn't good...but they weren't that good, and neither was the conference. Big difference between prepping for and rising up for 1-2 big opponents a season and having to grind every week. The bottom of the major conferences are much more competitive than they were 20-30 years ago.

Success at a mid-major doesn't equate to success in the P5...as CU found out with Dan Hawkins (53-11 at Boise State....8 of those losses came in 2 seasons....and just had UC Davis in the FCS quarterfinals).

While we're remembering, Auburn also beat #1 Alabama that same year.

 

[allong69ks]

While we're remembering, Auburn also beat #1 Alabama that same year.

I hope you're not actually trying to suggest that UCF was better than Alabama....

 

[oldjar07]

You seriously think that team could have been 10-2 in the SEC?

OK.....

Yes.

 

[allong69ks]

Yes.

If it was coached by someone besides Scott Frost, would you think that?

 

[Kato]

I hope you're not actually trying to suggest that UCF was better than Alabama....

No, just that your example is flawed because that same Auburn that got beat by Georgia in the Championship also beat Georgia and Alabama in the regular season. i wouldn't be throwing shade on that Auburn team with that resume. Spin it how you like, but Auburn was good.

 

[Ewooc]

“For Husker fans, IOWA is one of those "it" teams, they easily attract talent, have good coaching, and of course, players. Nebraska has a lot of catching up to do when IOWA is the team to beat, talent, coaching wise, and lately has had more NFL draft success.”

FIFY

This is one of the dumbest things I have read in awhile. You are an idiot if you think Iowa easily attracts talent. Iowa takes whatever scraps are left over from most other P5 programs. They are not a place top talent wants to go and they don't. The only chance Iowa has at getting any good talent is if they are from Iowa.
Now, the thing Iowa IS very very good at is taking that crap/ low level talent and getting the absolute best out of them. That is why player development is so critical in college football. Nebraska hasn't had a talent issue the last 15-20 years. They have had a issue with developing that talent.

 

[RedMyMind]

You seriously think that team could have been 10-2 in the SEC?

OK.....

In the East division, maybe

 

[allong69ks]

In the East division, maybe

Depending on who they played in the West Division...and the lose to Georgia in the East....and I think they likely lose to 3 in the teams in the West for sure.

Auburn didn't look like they wanted to be there in the bowl. I have zero doubt that UCF loses to Auburn in the regular season.

 

[allong69ks]

This is one of the dumbest things I have read in awhile. You are an idiot if you think Iowa easily attracts talent. Iowa takes whatever scraps are left over from most other P5 programs. They are not a place top talent wants to go and they don't. They only chance Iowa has at getting any good talent is if they are from Iowa.
Now, the thing Iowa IS very very good at is taking that crap/ low level talent and getting the absolute best out of them. That is why player development is so critical in college football. Nebraska hasn't had a talent issue the last 15-20 years. They have had a issue with developing that talent.

I don't know...they had a pretty good TE from Omaha....

 

[allong69ks]

No, just that your example is flawed because that same Auburn that got beat by Georgia in the Championship also beat Georgia and Alabama in the regular season. i wouldn't be throwing shade on that Auburn team with that resume. Spin it how you like, but Auburn was good.

I'm not disputing the fact that Auburn was good. I'm basically disputing the notion that UCF was a genuinely a better team than Auburn. Auburn, in the Peach Bowl, looked to me like a team that didn't want to be there. It wasn't the same Auburn team that beat Alabama.

If that Auburn team and that UCF team played 10 times, with each hosting 5 games, I'd put good money on Auburn winning at least 8 of them.

 

[Ewooc]

I don't know...they had a pretty good TE from Omaha....

Again coming out of high school he was 3 star, nationaly unranked, not highly sough after prospect. I think some of the offers he had outside of Iowa were like AZ ST, Iowa St, Purdue, Wyoming, SDSU, and MN. Iowa took him and turned him into a 1st RD draft pick. Im not saying Iowa doesn't create NFL talent. The poster I was responding too said Iowa easily gets talent. That isn't true. They are forced to take what nobody else wants. Hell he was from Neb and we showed little interest in him, a shame yes.

 

[Crazyhole]

I'm not disputing the fact that Auburn was good. I'm basically disputing the notion that UCF was a genuinely a better team than Auburn. Auburn, in the Peach Bowl, looked to me like a team that didn't want to be there. It wasn't the same Auburn team that beat Alabama.

If that Auburn team and that UCF team played 10 times, with each hosting 5 games, I'd put good money on Auburn winning at least 8 of them.

They played once, not 10 times, and UCF won. We don't have to rely on hypotheticals here because the two teams actually played each other.

 

[Ewooc]

They played once, not 10 times, and UCF won. We don't have to rely on hypotheticals here because the two teams actually played each other.

As we found out on Sat, the overall better team doesn't always win. The argument that many have against UCF is their weak conf. Their success is inflated because they obvious are the best team in it. If they would be in a conf like the SEC or BIG10 where they play very good teams week in and week out they wouldn't look that great and wouldn't break top 5 most year in either of those or possibly any other p5 conf. Then people bring up games like the Auburn one to justify why UCF belongs with the top programs. Beating a good p5 team once a year in bowl, especially when you have a month to prepare is way different than doing it every single week. Year in and year out. I for one think UCF deserves a P5 shot. Then we know for sure if they belong.

 

[Kato]

I'm not disputing the fact that Auburn was good. I'm basically disputing the notion that UCF was a genuinely a better team than Auburn. Auburn, in the Peach Bowl, looked to me like a team that didn't want to be there. It wasn't the same Auburn team that beat Alabama.

If that Auburn team and that UCF team played 10 times, with each hosting 5 games, I'd put good money on Auburn winning at least 8 of them.

So we're goig on how you feel and what it looked like to you. They played the game and UCF won. UCF wasn't exactly without turmoil going into that game. Where was their soon to be ex coach in the time leading up to the game? How about UCF buying into that game with a coach the chose to leave as opposed to staying? A great majority of UCF fans were blasting frost at that time for leaving and hoping the team would turn their backs on him. He walked back into a semi-hostile situation and pulled that team back together for a win. Face it, UCF was a damn good team that year and what they may or maynot have a accomplished in other conferences is pure speculation by some to justify the greater existence.

 

[RedMyMind]

I'm not disputing the fact that Auburn was good. I'm basically disputing the notion that UCF was a genuinely a better team than Auburn. Auburn, in the Peach Bowl, looked to me like a team that didn't want to be there. It wasn't the same Auburn team that beat Alabama.

If that Auburn team and that UCF team played 10 times, with each hosting 5 games, I'd put good money on Auburn winning at least 8 of them.

Auburn seemed pretty frustrated, suplexing RBs and all the trash talk.

 

[allong69ks]

They played once, not 10 times, and UCF won. We don't have to rely on hypotheticals here because the two teams actually played each other.

So, does that mean that Colorado is better than Nebraska in 2019, since they won (better talent, better coaching, etc.)? I'm just wondering, because this website is full of people that seem to think otherwise (myself included...at least on the talent end).

 

[Crazyhole]

So, does that mean that Colorado is better than Nebraska in 2019, since they won (better talent, better coaching, etc.)? I'm just wondering, because this website is full of people that seem to think otherwise (myself included...at least on the talent end).

In the only game that mattered between the two teams, yes Colorado was better.

 

[oldjar07]

I'm not disputing the fact that Auburn was good. I'm basically disputing the notion that UCF was a genuinely a better team than Auburn. Auburn, in the Peach Bowl, looked to me like a team that didn't want to be there. It wasn't the same Auburn team that beat Alabama.

If that Auburn team and that UCF team played 10 times, with each hosting 5 games, I'd put good money on Auburn winning at least 8 of them.

Milton didn't even have a very good game and UCF still beat them handily. Based on the only data point we have, UCF was the better team.

 

[allong69ks]

So we're goig how you feel and what it looked like to you. They played the game and UCF won. UCF wasn't exactly without turmoil going into that game. Where was their soon to be ex coach in the time leading up to the game? How about UCF buying into that game with a coach the chose to leave as opposed to staying? A great majority of UCF fans were blasting frost at that time for leaving and hoping the team would turn their backs on him. He walked back into a semi-hostile situation and pulled that team back together for a win. Face it, UCF was a damn good team that year and what they may or maynot have a accomplished in other conferences is pure speculation by some to justify the greater existence.

I'm not asking anyone to go by how I feel on anything....nor did I say UCF wasn't a good team. Feel free to find where I flat out said "UCF wasn't a good team". I wish you luck.....

All I have said is that UCF is 9-4 in the SEC that season....and I stand by it.

In the only game that mattered between the two teams, yes Colorado was better.

Then you should be telling that to the many folks posting on here that seem to think otherwise.