Switch pitcher

[expireddog]

Just curious as to how everyone thinks this will work out. Feels like he’ll eventually have to pick a side. Seems pitching from both sides requires more work than hitting.

Also is a thing where he can switch middle of inning. Or every other inning.

How do y’all think it plays out?

He tweeted tonight that he’s coming to school since he wasn’t drafted in first 10 rounds.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

Bro is going to pitch Friday then Saturday and go 30-0

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I think there is some rule that does not allow him to switch it up. Not sure but I saw somebody post that. Not very fair since the batters can. Can anybody verify that ? Update...I googled it and it seems like he can't switch during an at bat but can switch up during the same inning to different batter

 

[Dawgbite]

I read somewhere that he couldn’t switch on a batter or maybe it was during an entire inning, I don’t remember. But seems like being a switch pitcher he could possibly pitch twice in a week as long if one game was righty and the second game was lefty.

 

[onewoof]

Pitcher can declare what arm and batter can switch hit if he chooses to. Pitcher must stay with the arm chosen.

Pitcher can choose arm for each new batter.

 

[Go Budaw]

I read somewhere that he couldn’t switch on a batter or maybe it was during an entire inning, I don’t remember. But seems like being a switch pitcher he could possibly pitch twice in a week as long if one game was righty and the second game was lefty.

Wet blanket here, but he wasn’t drafted in the Top 10 rounds, and the dude can literally throw with both arms. What that tells me is that he’s wayyyy better on one side than the other (in terms of velocity or control or both), or he’s not particularly dominant from either side with his current stuff. It has to be something, because if he could throw with control and velocity from both sides….he would have been the 1st overall pick.

Also, this whole discussion about pitching twice in a week is pointless. That’s not the real advantage of a BHP. The biggest advantage is the same as a switch hitter….except the exact opposite. You can throw from the same side of the plate as the hitter every time, and never let the other team match up with an opposite side bat as long as you are in the game. Ultimately, he may have more value as a reliever because those matchups are much more critical late in games.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

Nah, give him Saturday off for the legs. He can start Fridays/Sundays.

 

[WrapItDog]

Former MSU coach Pat McMahon is coaching the switch pitcher team in the video

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

Don’t be Debbie Downer. He was outstanding from both sides at the MLB Combine, going against the best competition in the country. The knock against him is his size.

[tweet]1537907435553181699[/tweet]

https://www.baseballamerica.com/sto...cijntje-is-more-than-a-draft-novelty/?amphtml

 

[dog12]

Pitcher can declare what arm and batter can switch hit if he chooses to. Pitcher must stay with the arm chosen.

Pitcher can choose arm for each new batter.

How about the following hypotheticals?

Right-handed batter comes to the plate. Pitcher selects right arm to pitch. Before throwing the first pitch, the batter is replaced with a left-handed pinch hitter. Can the pitcher switch to his left arm?

Same scenario, but the pitcher first throws strike one to the right-handed batter. Then, the batter is replaced with a left-handed pinch hitter. Can the pitcher switch to his left arm?

Common sense tells me that in both of those scenarios the left-handed pinch hitter would be a "new" batter and the pitcher could switch arms. However, common sense sometimes is not followed when writing/enforcing rules.

 

[onewoof]

each new batter, the pitcher can switch arms. the situation comes up with the switch hitter, the switch hitter can choose how to face the pitcher and the pitcher cannot change.

 

[aTotal360]

Not that there's anything wrong with that. **

 

[Dawg_4_lifes]

He will throw 8 no hit innings RH and Lemonis will come to the mound and tap his left arm. Then Jurrangelo will just turn around.

 

[The Peeper]

I also read yesterday that he has pretty adamantly said he was going to college for now anyway and that kept some teams away

 

[o_Hot Rock]

I also read yesterday that he has pretty adamantly said he was going to college for now anyway and that kept some teams away

In today's baseball draft, they do not draft players in the first ten rounds that won't sign. Many of the deals are already worked out or they at least know what their asking price for players a team is interested. That's part of the scout process. If his number is higher than the slot value where they can get him and they don't want or do not have the extra over slot, they won't draft them even if they grade high.

In the later rounds, they may draft some guys that end up going to college.

 

[Dawgg]

The knock against him is his size.

As we all know, short guys don't win championships.

 

[Go Budaw]

Don’t be Debbie Downer. He was outstanding from both sides at the MLB Combine, going against the best competition in the country. The knock against him is his size.

[tweet]1537907435553181699[/tweet]

https://www.baseballamerica.com/sto...cijntje-is-more-than-a-draft-novelty/?amphtml

From the article, it seems its not just his size that is the issue. The current book on him seems to be that he can throw heat with both arms, but doesn’t really have a projectable secondary pitch from either side. There’s the rub, right there. It doesn’t matter if you can throw 95 with both arms….if all you can throw is a fastball and college / pro hitters know that, it’s going to get crushed into the bleachers pretty often.

“Jurrangelo is a draftable player, but there’s not a lot of projection there,” the scout said. “He will get stronger. He will probably gain a good 15 pounds, and that will help”

“But his breaking ball, he can throw it for strikes, but it’s an average pitch.”

“If he is a seventh-round prospect with his right and a seventh-rounder with his left,” the scout said, “you can’t add it up and make him a third-rounder.”

The extreme best case scenario is that he becomes a Fri night starter where he throws with both arms, and is MAYBE available as a LH reliever for 1-2 innings on Sunday. But the reality is that this kid is going to need a lot of work to be SEC ready with the secondary stuff from either or both sides. There’s an extremely high chance that Foxhall / Lemonis simply pick his best side and start to develop him there while forgetting the other arm, and letting the minors sort him out if they want him to throw with both arms. There’s hardly enough time within the NCAA’s required practice times per week to even develop secondary pitches for pitchers that are only one-handed. So I think its a pipe dream to expect him to be throwing 2-3 different “plus” pitches for strikes with each arm by the time he’s a junior.

All that being said, I’m excited for MSU to have this kid. He’s certainly a unique talent and I can’t wait to see how we use him. But folks need to temper their expectations….especially those that involve him throwing 12-15 innings per week and ridiculous **** like that.

 

[aTotal360]

Assuming both are switch...who has the declare first? Pitcher or hitter?

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

 

[8dog]

Count me in for 7th round prospects.

 

[Go Budaw]

Count me in for 7th round prospects.

Me too.

 

[Go Budaw]

each new batter, the pitcher can switch arms. the situation comes up with the switch hitter, the switch hitter can choose how to face the pitcher and the pitcher cannot change.

Right. I’m pretty sure a switch hitter can hit from both sides in the same at-bat against the same pitcher, if he so chooses.

 

[Go Budaw]

Assuming both are switch...who has the declare first? Pitcher or hitter?

Looks like its somebody’s first trip to a Reunion “dinner party”….

 

[onewoof]

pitcher and pitcher cannot change on the batter, but the batter can choose to bat from whatever side of the plate he wants on each pitch if he wants as long as it is before the pitcher begins his windup

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

Stop trying to poo-poo on the crootin parade. Did you find out yet that he is also a switch-hitting natural shortstop? He is.

 

[rynodawg]

Baseball America had him as a Top 100 draft prospect for most of the year, until the most recent rankings dropped him to #200 range. We are fortunate to get him in school.

Plus I don’t really agree with the scout comment about 7th round talent in both arms not adding up to 3rd round. If he can shave 25-50 points off opponents batting average by consistently having R/R and L/L matchups that definitely adds value beyond just the talent level.

 

[Go Budaw]

Baseball America had him as a Top 100 draft prospect for most of the year, until the most recent rankings dropped him to #200 range. We are fortunate to get him in school.

Plus I don’t really agree with the scout comment about 7th round talent in both arms not adding up to 3rd round. If he can shave 25-50 points off opponents batting average by consistently having R/R and L/L matchups that definitely adds value beyond just the talent level.

I totally agree. But to shave those points off in that way, he’s got to have a quality secondary pitch that he can throw with BOTH arms. Throwing just a 95 mph heater and literally nothing else is enough to get just about any high school hitter out that’s not an MLB prospect. For college and MiLB, its a different story.

If he had a quality off-speed with even just one arm, he’d be a bona fide Top 50 prospect. If he had one he could throw with both arms, he’d be the first overall pick. But he doesn’t have anything that is college or MiLB ready yet besides the fastball, so that’s why he wasn’t ranked that high. That’s our good fortune, though. How quickly he develops the off-speed is what will determine how quickly he can make an impact here.

 

[rynodawg]

Here is the BA premium article blurb from the June Draft Combine:

There was a video too, slider looked pretty good, the LH curve wasn’t on video. Keep in mind those scouts are looking through a major league lens, so ‘average’ doesn’t mean that it’s bad or non-existent.

[FONT=&quot]Jurrangelo Cijntje, SHP, Champagnat Catholic HS, Hialeah, Fla.
College Commitment: Mississippi State
BA 300 Rank: 245[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cijntje is the most unique player in the draft class as a switch-pitcher from Curacao who speaks four languages. He’s more than just a novelty, however, which he reinforced with his outing at the combine. Cijntje came on to pitch the third inning for Team Stripes and struck out five of the six batters he faced. He struck out three batters pitching righthanded and two throwing lefthanded. His fastball sat 93-96 mph from the right side to go with a swing-and-miss 79-80 mph slider, and he sat 89-91 mph from the left side with a mid-70s curveball he could use to steal a strike. Cijntje’s control wavered at times—he walked a batter and ran a lot of deep counts—but he didn’t allow a ball in play.[/FONT]

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Wet blanket here, but he wasn’t drafted in the Top 10 rounds, and the dude can literally throw with both arms. What that tells me is that he’s wayyyy better on one side than the other (in terms of velocity or control or both), or he’s not particularly dominant from either side with his current stuff. It has to be something, because if he could throw with control and velocity from both sides….he would have been the 1st overall pick.

Also, this whole discussion about pitching twice in a week is pointless. That’s not the real advantage of a BHP. The biggest advantage is the same as a switch hitter….except the exact opposite. You can throw from the same side of the plate as the hitter every time, and never let the other team match up with an opposite side bat as long as you are in the game. Ultimately, he may have more value as a reliever because those matchups are much more critical late in games.

I agree with what you say is the main advantage of a BHP, but the discussion about pitching twice in a weekend is not pointless.

Let's assume he's a long reliever and goes 4 innings, just for this example... A RHP or LHP is obviously using the same arm for those innings and throws ~50-60 pitches. That guy is spent for the weekend. If our BHP does that and switches arms based on the matchup he's only put ~25-30 on each arm and should still be able to go 2-3, maybe even another full 4 more again that weekend (assuming his lower body & core is in good shape).

Again, I agree on the main benefit, being based on attacking the hitter's weaker side, but it definitely cuts down on arm fatigue and should allow for more appearances, which is another huge benefit if he's effective.

 

[NukeDogg]

With our luck Fox will teach him to focus on throwing 95+ FBs with his right hand, and develop a good slider with his left. He'll be out there switching arms depending on the count.

 

[Go Budaw]

I agree with what you say is the main advantage of a BHP, but the discussion about pitching twice in a weekend is not pointless.

Let's assume he's a long reliever and goes 4 innings, just for this example... A RHP or LHP is obviously using the same arm for those innings and throws ~50-60 pitches. That guy is spent for the weekend. If our BHP does that and switches arms based on the matchup he's only put ~25-30 on each arm and should still be able to go 2-3, maybe even another full 4 more again that weekend (assuming his lower body & core is in good shape).

Again, I agree on the main benefit, being based on attacking the hitter's weaker side, but it definitely cuts down on arm fatigue and should allow for more appearances, which is another huge benefit if he's effective.

In your scenario, its actually more likely that he’d throw 40-45 pitches RH, and 15-20 pitches LH (because most college hitters are right handed). That puts you in a spot where he might not be able to come back and throw more RH, but could have plenty more pitches available as a LH. So then it becomes matchup specific as to whether you could use him again like you normally would. Of course you could throw him lefty against RH batters, but then you lose the matchup advantage.