Man any coach in America would love to have this roster, its not the players, its the piss poor offense, its the coach controlling every offensive possession, its not being more aggressive on defense, we should be full court pressing, playing zone at times, the offense is made for Princeton, you got athletes who are use to pushing the ball and being aggressive, not slowing it down and passing 50 times. NO ADJUSTMENTS DURING THE GAME AT ALL, WRONG LINEUP AT TIMES, WELL ALOT, Give Tubby or Pitino this Roster and we still a top 5 team, with maybe 1 loss.
Stop blaming the players
- Thread starter kygent2
- Start date
I have been pleased today for the most part fans have blamed the coach not the players. Leave the players alone
Agree to disagree. This team lacks shooters, a quality 4 man, and has its limitations. That's on calipari but please don't compare this roster to 2010 or 2011 or 2012 or 2014 or 2015 or 2016 or 2017 or 2018 or 2019 or even 2020.
These guys are hired mercenaries now with NIL anyways so I think the their kids crap is overblown at this point.
These guys are hired mercenaries now with NIL anyways so I think the their kids crap is overblown at this point.
100% agree with this.
It's not really blaming players. Ultimately Cal is responsible for roster construction but anyone who is watching this can see the different in talent we are getting now vs what we had in the past.
I disagree with the OP. Could another coach do better with this squad? Sure. Is this team a final four level team or even a S16 level team? No. Not at all.
Yeah I'm not bashing the players. They have limitations is all. And people on here pick players to trash all the time. We knew going into last year it was brooks and Wheeler while other players got passes no matter what. Brooks got away so we knew this year Wheeler was the marked man and people have started in on toppin to replace brooks.
I disagree. I do blame Calipari, of course, he recruited these guys. He's the guy at the top and he has to own this, ultimately.
But, as I said in another thread, we lack alpha dogs in thus group- they don't want the ball and they are afraid to make plays. The 1 guy who will make a play is Wheeler, and we all know he's limited. Now, these guys will make plays when there is no pressure and no anxiety or when the team is winning and expects to win easily, but when the heat is on they wilt. This is just the truth.
And this group's defense is very strongly tied to their offense. When shots aren't falling, they hang their heads and don't play strong d. So, a 10pt lead becomes 20 quickly. Instead of fighting harder, they wilt.
Now, you can blame some of this on the coach, of course. Poor offensive scheme or poor game plan, but these guys have to make the shots. These guys have to execute. They have to be mentally tough and play through poor stretches. They don't.
I love these guys, of course, and I will cheer them on to the end, but this team’s outlook right now is NIT. Tennessee will destroy this group in Knoxville next week. There are no easy games coming. No mental fortitude. No confidence. Loser mentality, hanging heads, playing not to lose.
But, as I said in another thread, we lack alpha dogs in thus group- they don't want the ball and they are afraid to make plays. The 1 guy who will make a play is Wheeler, and we all know he's limited. Now, these guys will make plays when there is no pressure and no anxiety or when the team is winning and expects to win easily, but when the heat is on they wilt. This is just the truth.
And this group's defense is very strongly tied to their offense. When shots aren't falling, they hang their heads and don't play strong d. So, a 10pt lead becomes 20 quickly. Instead of fighting harder, they wilt.
Now, you can blame some of this on the coach, of course. Poor offensive scheme or poor game plan, but these guys have to make the shots. These guys have to execute. They have to be mentally tough and play through poor stretches. They don't.
I love these guys, of course, and I will cheer them on to the end, but this team’s outlook right now is NIT. Tennessee will destroy this group in Knoxville next week. There are no easy games coming. No mental fortitude. No confidence. Loser mentality, hanging heads, playing not to lose.
It’s a combo.
I’ve seen coaches take far less talent and do more by being creative and playing a style that suits the strengths or skill set of players. Cal doesn’t adapt. He expects them to adapt to him. I get that to a degree. However, his stubbornness is second to none and slowly killing this program.
Oscar is awesome but the roster is lacking. This team doesn’t have dudes like in the past. Terrance Jones wanted to dunk on a player and their entire family at once. Brandon Knight never flinched… never feared failure and always wanted to take the shot. Lamb believed every shot was going in. MKG was going to sever his leg if he allowed a dude to drive on him.
Notice, I didn’t list all the big time NBA guys here! I just listed dudes who could ball and had something none of these dudes have. They had unrelenting toughness. They could win a street fight. These dudes wet themselves when it gets tough.
Maybe it’s bc they hate Cal, which could be it or just valued too much for a skill but no fight in them. They aren’t playing well or confident. I agree with previous poster… no dog. None.
I’ve seen coaches take far less talent and do more by being creative and playing a style that suits the strengths or skill set of players. Cal doesn’t adapt. He expects them to adapt to him. I get that to a degree. However, his stubbornness is second to none and slowly killing this program.
Oscar is awesome but the roster is lacking. This team doesn’t have dudes like in the past. Terrance Jones wanted to dunk on a player and their entire family at once. Brandon Knight never flinched… never feared failure and always wanted to take the shot. Lamb believed every shot was going in. MKG was going to sever his leg if he allowed a dude to drive on him.
Notice, I didn’t list all the big time NBA guys here! I just listed dudes who could ball and had something none of these dudes have. They had unrelenting toughness. They could win a street fight. These dudes wet themselves when it gets tough.
Maybe it’s bc they hate Cal, which could be it or just valued too much for a skill but no fight in them. They aren’t playing well or confident. I agree with previous poster… no dog. None.
I do believe it can be both. Regardless of coaching players have to make shots, hit FTs and not make dumb TOs. Coaching is bad but it can be both.
I think you are looking at what they are now, not what they could have been.
How did you feel about this team when they played in the Bahamas?
What does it say about Cal refusing to play Ware now, but adamant Ware plays a ton of minutes in the earlier games
We have the returning NPOY, the best 3 point shooting percentage guy in the NCAA, Reeves was a scorer, a couple of guys that will be in the NBA one day , a 5th year Sr in Toppin and while apparently I'm the leader of the "its not Wheeler" bandwagon, a veteran point guard. Heck, Reeves avg 20 points a game and Cal barely plays him.
I 100% believe this team has the make up to be a final four team
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I disagree, this is a good team, just needs the right skipper to guide them
This team was overhyped going into the season. But the coaching has not put players in a position to succeed or play to their strengths.
I wonder if you gave this roster to Bama’s coach - and he didn’t know how many stars players came in with or what promises had been made to them - who would he play and how we he play with them?
I’d argue that Thiero and Ugonna would’ve gotten a lot more run and been more developed and confident at this point because of it.
And I’m gonna go to bed tonight praying that Eddie Gran played HS basketball! He’s the answer we need on the bench and with the grease board. Dude did more with less better than any coach I’ve seen in my lifetime (mid-30s). Maybe Stoops will loan him to CCC for the rest of the season!
A lot of it’s between their ears, and a lot of that is due to the man running the show.
The talent level is fine. Two months ago when we beat a decent Duquesne team by 25 Oscar didn’t even play. Wheeler came off the bench.
If we are 25 points better than Duquesne without arguably our best player, we certainly have the talent to be a Sweet 16 team or more.
Cal has messed this up. He’s played the wrong guys. He’s played people too many minutes. He’s messed with their heads.
This team is a shell of what it was 2 months ago, but the talent is fine. The psyche isn’t. The coach isn’t.
The talent level is fine. Two months ago when we beat a decent Duquesne team by 25 Oscar didn’t even play. Wheeler came off the bench.
If we are 25 points better than Duquesne without arguably our best player, we certainly have the talent to be a Sweet 16 team or more.
Cal has messed this up. He’s played the wrong guys. He’s played people too many minutes. He’s messed with their heads.
This team is a shell of what it was 2 months ago, but the talent is fine. The psyche isn’t. The coach isn’t.
2.5 dogs in your modeling? Wonder what your modeling will have in store for Tennessee game.
Several of us predicted a 20+ point blowout. And I’ll keep predicting similar results against elite teams on the road - and probably keep being right most of the time.
Yeah but there is no excuse for getting beat to balls constantly. Having balls ripped away and standing g around too much. Lack of hustle, intensity and playing soft. We are getting ran by less talented rosters and a lot of it has to do with coaching, odd lineups and an outdated offense. But our players don't seem to be playing as hard as our opponents on a regular basis. Shots don't fall that's fine but no excuse for lack of effort. It just feels like a lack of heart from top to bottom.
Too many black holes on this squad IMO.
I thought we looked great in the Bahamas but to be honest given the skill level of teams we were playing, I didn't really put a whole lot of stock into it.
The mere fact that we had to rely on a guy like Ware to play significant mins and now Toppin.
Do I feel like Cal has made a major mistake playing guys this season over other players? Sure. I've been on the bandwagon of playing guys like Theiro and Ugonna more.
But at the same rate, I feel like this team has a severe limitation. There's a lot of black holes on offense on this team. And you figured this would be one of those elite defensive teams and maybe we could win in that regard (and who knows maybe we still can) but it just hasn't worked out that way.
Calipari isn’t helping them but damn players are responsible for their play. It’s not as if they started playing the game in August. Oscar had a weak game and the list goes on.
I see one common denominator from the 9-16 team, 2018 team that lost to KSU, last years team that lost to st Pete, 2016 team that lost to Indiana.
Cal. He’s the common denominator.
Only twice in his previous 13 years has he ended the season not losing to a much less talented team. 2012 and 2017 cheats were evenly matched with us.
He is 4-14 in his last 18 against ranked teams. Different players and different assistants over that time.
Cal is the only common denominator.
IT’S NOT THE PLAYERS!!!!!
Cal. He’s the common denominator.
Only twice in his previous 13 years has he ended the season not losing to a much less talented team. 2012 and 2017 cheats were evenly matched with us.
He is 4-14 in his last 18 against ranked teams. Different players and different assistants over that time.
Cal is the only common denominator.
IT’S NOT THE PLAYERS!!!!!
The talent on this team is nowhere close to Alabama, Arkansas or Tennessee. And that's just in our conference. You must not be watching the same games as I am.
That may be true - but the “experts” certainly though the talent was there to start the season.
Everything you’re saying is the coaches problem. Lol.
And then, they aren’t coached at all.
Calipari is killing this program. It’s time for a settlement on the buyout. He should be fired without question, and the reason we can’t should be fired along with him. Barnhart. If Barnhart isn’t fired for this mess we’ll never be great again because the men in charge have no accountability.
Calipari is who I said he was. And I hate it, but he’s not the man several here believe he is.
This is 100% on Calipari and he should be fired for it. He’s killing this program with his approach and lack of concern. No adjustment in philosophy, recruits with no skill requirement, doesn’t give a **** either.
For anyone to suggest at this point someone is to blame other than that guy? Is insane.
Yeah, I do agree it's Cal's fault and his problem. He's the one who will be held accountable if it doesn't get fixed. And I don't see it getting fixed.
But I also think the players are at fault. I think it's both. Everything I said above is true of this team. This season is gonna get uglier before it's over.
Yeah, it isn’t that complicated. At this level, the coach is responsible when his players aren’t getting it done. He has every resource and every advantage. No excuses. This isn’t a bad year. This is a collapse.
Ultimately it all boils down to the person in charge. You could get on him for his style of play or his insistence on playing specific players over others. But even without all of that, if it just boils down to us not having enough talent, that also is on the person responsible for building the team. He picked who he offered scholarships to. He choose the transfers to go after.
Just as much as I thought we got the roster construction correctly last season (and he does get credit for that) is as bad I feel he got it this season.
Just as much as I thought we got the roster construction correctly last season (and he does get credit for that) is as bad I feel he got it this season.
I see too many kids worried about themselves and their future on our squad with respect to $$$$ and playing after UK. They aren’t worried about playing as one and accomplishing goals together. If they would, the rest would take of itself. CCC created this monster. Next year will be no different, and maybe worse.
I don't see a team of players that don't care.
I see a team of players that are lost and just not quite as talented as our competition is.
Alabama had a freshman that was more talented that any of the guys we brought in. When was that last time that happened under Cal? It's usually US grabbing those players. No disrespect to our players, but they just aren't all that good.
I see a team of players that are lost and just not quite as talented as our competition is.
Alabama had a freshman that was more talented that any of the guys we brought in. When was that last time that happened under Cal? It's usually US grabbing those players. No disrespect to our players, but they just aren't all that good.
Roster construction would not be as bad if he were willing to play modern basketball and have Livingston at the 4.
Wheeler
Wallace
Reeves/Thiero
Livingston/Thiero
Oscar
Ugonna
Toppin
Collins
CJ
That’s not a terrible roster if you utilize the players differently.
Does it make us better? Yeah sure I think so.
But just look at that list of names.
There's no John Wall, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins. No Towns, No Booker. No Ulis. No Quickley, No Monk. I mean the list just goes on and on.
The difference in talent we got in the past and talent we got now is just drastic IMO.
Don’t want my post to be misinterpreted with respect to kids thinking about their futures. Sure, everyone does. They can, however, be coached and have the understanding that the future will take care of itself by taking care of business, which is listen to good coaching (which we lack), and have fun beating opponents.
I think we have more than enough talent to win at a high level this season, but it’s being tumultuously coached.
I think we have more than enough talent to win at a high level this season, but it’s being tumultuously coached.
Yeah, I agree with this. It certainly doesn't let Cal off the hook, which is what is really bothering the ones arguing here. He's responsible for this, regardless of whatever else may be true.
There are multiple ways to describe it- no alpha dogs is what I said earlier. Who is the guy who wants the ball when the game is on the line? And more importantly, who is the guy who is capable of making a play under pressure? This team doesn't have one. Wallace is probably the closest thing. I thought Reeves could be that guy but he avoids contact and defers to others when a defender bodies him at all. Wheeler ends up having to make those plays but he isn't capable of getting it done most of the time. So, who is that guy? We need several, we have none.
In the LSU game, you had us dribbling the ball out to the end of the shot clock and we pass it to Toppin in the corner who makes the big 3.
It went in but it was a low % shot. It isn't something I would say you could rely on.
Yeah I think Wallace might be the closest one to a guy that can knock down a big shot when we need it but yeah I just feel this team lacks alpha-dogs.
Look at this Alabama game. We fought at the end of that 1st half and we cut the lead to 1. Then look at what happened. We fell apart. They made shot after shot after shot. Next thing u know........11 point game at the half.
The ones thinking this team has enough talent I completely disagree. It's one thing to lose on the road at Alabama, or at Gonzaga or on a neutral court vs UCLA. But it's HOW we are losing these games. We aren't even CLOSE to these teams. That doesn't just scream out poor coaching to me (tho it is some of that). It screams out lack of talent.
It went in but it was a low % shot. It isn't something I would say you could rely on.
Yeah I think Wallace might be the closest one to a guy that can knock down a big shot when we need it but yeah I just feel this team lacks alpha-dogs.
Look at this Alabama game. We fought at the end of that 1st half and we cut the lead to 1. Then look at what happened. We fell apart. They made shot after shot after shot. Next thing u know........11 point game at the half.
The ones thinking this team has enough talent I completely disagree. It's one thing to lose on the road at Alabama, or at Gonzaga or on a neutral court vs UCLA. But it's HOW we are losing these games. We aren't even CLOSE to these teams. That doesn't just scream out poor coaching to me (tho it is some of that). It screams out lack of talent.
People will disagree with me and that’s fine. But I think most people overvalue coaches in all sports. Cal is responsible for putting this group together thus deserves blame. I’m tired of hearing about Cal’s offense when this was the worst shooting performance in over 200 games. We have millionaire coaches and players. Figure it out is my opinion.
I agree with this.
I feel like coaches get too much credit in good times and too much blame in bad times