Steph Curry

[mjj_2K]

If you just heard, then you may not be qualified to choose.

So many young guys.

Seth has been great last year and this year.

But how many times have we seen this?

So many players were better than Jordan because they had a great couple of seasons.

But dismiss MJ after consistent great play every single season along with:

6 NBA rings

6 championships MVPs

5 League MVPs

14 All Star games

NBA Defensive player of the year

9 NBA defensive 1st Teams

10 NBA scoring titles

3 NBA steals titles



Steph Curry

1 Title

1 MVP

3 All Star games



If people want to predict that Steph will become the GOAT, I'm ok with that, but to say he is now, looks pretty lame when comparing the all around player and the team's success.

I will go ahead and predict Steph will not:

Win 6 titles on one team

Win 6 MVPs

Ever be defensive player of the year, nor make five 1st team all defensive teams

Ever win 10 scoring titles

Ever lead the league in steals.


If he does and continues to shoot this great then yes I will concede, but until then we have seen this proclamation many times before.

Good post.

I defend Curry most of the time, because there are too many people who come on here with "the best players I saw when I was young could crush anyone today like a bug" attitude. Which is usually just a sign of older guys romanticizing their youths. But I did see Jordan's entire career, and what separated him is that he pulled himself to the top of the mountain, and then just pushed down anyone else trying to get there, in a way that no other player ever has. We're talking 8 years (with a 1 1/2 year pause) where the biggest story in the NBA was pretty much always "can anyone beat Jordan?". And the answer in 6 of those years was "Not a chance". Yeah, he had good teammates, but he was the Alpha and Omega on 6 NBA championship teams.

Curry is doing unprecedented things, and he might actually be having a better year than Jordan ever had, but he needs to keep going for at least another 4-5 years before he really earns the (lifetime) comparison.

 

[Hopmix]

The way the game ended tonight with Durant going full retard at the end of regulation (really everyone who is in a tight game with the Warriors), you wonder if some of this is scripted. Remember, this is entertainment. Steph Curry and the record breakers are the narrative. I knew OKC was going to lose, even when they were up 9 late. They will get 75 wins, and Steph will break more records. The NBA loves this. The retired players trashing on the Warriors are salty as frick, but have some legitimate points. Everyone guards Steph the same way, and act like they have never seen a screen before. I will say that Steph gets more open looks than any superstar ever has. He might get more open shots than even everyone not named Rondo. Steph is like a +30 WAR.

What??? Why do people think he gets open looks? He doesn't get open looks. Even that 32 foot jumper he took was contested. He has amazing handles and he runs without the ball better than anyone in the NBA.
The reason why he looks so open is because e has the quickest release in te history of basketball. That's the ingredient to his success. And sorry but trying to say that a 32 foot game winning shot is scripted. Trying to say that some one is out rebounded the way they were and still win is scripted.... You still believe in the tooth fairy and the boogie man too huh? Earth is flat??

 

[king of cali]

That's because Jordan was a terrible shooter.

False. One of the greatest mid-range shooters of all time.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

Stephen Curry this season on catch and shoot shots, unguarded: 1.354 points per possession
Stephen Curry this season on catch and shoot shots, guarded: 1.385 points per possession
He is better on catch and shoot shots when guarded.

In isolation, single covered: 1.032 points per possession

As the pick and roll ball handler when single covered: 1.302 points per possession
When the defender goes over the pick: 1.163 points per possession
When the defender goes under the pick: 1.459 points

When he dribbles off the pick on the P&R, and the defender goes over the pick: 1.14 points per possession
Defender goes under the pick: 1.5 points per possession


But yes, overall he shoots much worse, yet still at a high level, when guarded very tight, as can be seen in this image

Alas, 43% of his shots occur within less than 2 seconds of him touching the ball. It's incredibly hard to guard someone tight when they shoot that quickly with such frequency. Especially when they are coming off a bunch of screens. Even the best defenders in the world have troubles guarding people off screens.

As you can see, the longer he holds on to the ball, the further his effective field goal percentage falls. That's because he is holding on to the ball long enough for a defender to be able to commit.

 

[mjj_2K]

Jordan wasn't 7' tall. Shooting in traffic is still shooting. Bernard King was a great, great shooter (career .518 from 2) and I never saw him attempt a 3. (Career 3%: .172) Shooting from the 3 line isn't the end-all and be-all of shooting.

Yeah, but IF you can take 11 three pointer a game and make them at 47+ %, it means that your shots are worth VASTLY more than even the most efficient 2 point shooters.

Here's the math, plain and simple-

Steph Curry has attempted 1121 FG's this year. Those 1121 attempts have resulted in 1442 points- 1.286 points per shot for his team.

Jordan's best overall shooting year was probably 89-90, when he hit .526 overall, and .376 on 3's. He had better overall years, but not with as many 3 pointers. Jordan's 89-90 season, he averaged 1.10 points per shot.

a .176 point per shot difference, extended out through an entire season (where Curry is headed towards 1600 shots), is pretty damn big- over 300 points, over a 3.5 ppg difference.

And yes, the fact that Jordan could do what he did while taking more shots sort of works in his favor, but the fact that Curry plays on a 53-5 team works in his. You can say that Jordan's ability to be efficient at a higher volume is more impressive, but the fact that Curry plays on a team that almost never loses has to be considered. Curry scores more points than anyone, and he does so while being (other than some low volume guys who really only dunk) the highest percentage (in terms of points per shot) player in the league, and he does it all for a team that's likely to win at least 70 games. That is totally unprecedented.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Yeah, but IF you can take 11 three pointer a game and make them at 47+ %, it means that your shots are worth VASTLY more than even the most efficient 2 point shooters.

Here's the math, plain and simple-

[good data deleted]

.

I wasn't debating who was better. i was simply responding to the assertion that Jordan was a terrible shooter.

 

[.S&C.]

That's because Jordan was a terrible shooter. And the rules were way different when he played. Remember, he played mostly during the era of thug ball.

Is this serious?

 

[PhattyJ4UK_rivals309166]

I had the over 234 for 200...what a great win..down 4 with 15 seconds left.. Thompson makes a 2...Durant throws a deep pass, that gets tipped and is barely saved by GS, they then do the pass to an open curry for a winning 3, instead iguodala gets fouled and a 61% FT shooter nails 2 to send it to overtime.

 

[JasonS.]

Not even 3 or 4 years. It's his first year at this level.

On the other hand, this is the first year anyone in the history of the game at this level. He's on pace to best Wilt Chamberlain's 1963 season for the best season ever (player efficiency record).

 

[DCCat]

Nobody recruited him.

Davidson recruited him.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Jordan was covered a lot tighter than this.

I don't think it's as far as wrestling, and I'm no NBA guru, it just seems bizarre.

Keep in mind, you've got a guy in this very thread that thinks he's the goat even admitting he's more open than Katina during catholic confession.

Im not arguing that MJ isn't the best, he is. But even though jordan played in an era of more physical basketball, no one was allowed to get close to jordan. Today because the nba uses true freedom of movement rules that the ncaa can't figure out, it'd more difficult to play defense. Also Curry is open alot because of how hard he works to get open before.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone_rivals]

Reasons he is so open:

1. He's crafty
2. He shoots from way back
3. You have to guard everybody, and they all spread you out. Can't double
4. They set a lot of moving picks
5. They demoralize you and make you give up
6. Freedom of movement
7. He can also put you on skates and blow by you

Not to mention he never stops moving. The man runs around more than Rip Hamilton used to. He just never stops moving. He runs defenders to death and having another amazing shooter like Thompson is huge to keep the defense honest.

 

[bluedog79]

I believe Curry is like Pistol Pete. Somebody who grew up with the ball. Pete and Curry passed the 10,000 hour mark early in age. Its said to be truly great at something you need 10,000 hours of practice.
Go watch Pete ....they have the same skill for shooting from anywhere.

 

[bluedog79]

Curry shoots 39% from 3pt if its a Spot-up 3. The regular kind of 3.
If he shoots a pull-up 3 is where he is deadly. 67% on the season.
You gotta keep Curry from bringing the ball up and just pulling up from 25 to 40 feet. It takes crazy focused defense to stop that pull -up all game.

He wants to shoot pull-up 3's 10 times a game. If your sleeping on defense, its going up.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

You can't help off of anybody. You try to double him he just passes it to somebody else who is perfectly capable of knocking down shots from anywhere on the floor.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

If he wins the MVP and they win the championship again, Curry has to be elevated into some very elite company. Not many guys have multiple MVP awards and titles.

 

[fatguy87]

And yes, the fact that Jordan could do what he did while taking more shots sort of works in his favor, but the fact that Curry plays on a 53-5 team works in his. You can say that Jordan's ability to be efficient at a higher volume is more impressive, but the fact that Curry plays on a team that almost never loses has to be considered.

Jordan's best shooting season, 88-89:

61.4 TS%
19.9 FGA/36

Curry this season:

68.4 TS%
21.3 FGA/36

Curry's shot volume and efficiency actually exceeds Jordan's in their best shooting seasons. His shooting efficiency is in an entirely different universe, too.

 

[sa_hunt]

Jordan's best shooting season, 88-89:

61.4 TS%
19.9 FGA/36

Curry this season:

68.4 TS%
21.3 FGA/36

Curry's shot volume and efficiency actually exceeds Jordan's in their best shooting seasons. His shooting efficiency is in an entirely different universe, too.

And? Nobody is arguing he's probably the best shooter ever, but player, uh NO

 

[bluejohnson_rivals107240]

Obviously some ppl here never saw Jordan play! GOAT, shooting the three isn't everything to this game! Steph? Great player, maybe greatest shooter ever! But not even on the same stratosphere with Jordan yet!

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

Curry shoots 39% from 3pt if its a Spot-up 3. The regular kind of 3.
If he shoots a pull-up 3 is where he is deadly. 67% on the season.
You gotta keep Curry from bringing the ball up and just pulling up from 25 to 40 feet. It takes crazy focused defense to stop that pull -up all game.

He wants to shoot pull-up 3's 10 times a game. If your sleeping on defense, its going up.

Synergy says he is 52.1% for all spot up shots. Can't seem to find a breakdown by 2 vs. 3 though

 

[mjj_2K]

Jordan's best shooting season, 88-89:

61.4 TS%
19.9 FGA/36

Curry this season:

68.4 TS%
21.3 FGA/36

Curry's shot volume and efficiency actually exceeds Jordan's in their best shooting seasons. His shooting efficiency is in an entirely different universe, too.

I agree, actually, except about the volume part. Volume is volume- you can't prorate volume stats via per 36 numbers (other than to gauge efficiency). You can't give Curry shots he hasn't actually taken because he plays less than 36 minutes per game, then take away shots that Jordan actually took because he played more than 36 minutes per game. Curry is a high volume shooter this year, but it's still 20 per game (highest of his career by far) compared to 22.2 for Jordan that season. Which was actually the lowest he averaged at any point from 86-87 through the rest of his Bulls career. 88-89 was the year that Jordan spent a lot of time at point- thus his career high 8 assist per game average.

But yeah, in terms of efficiency, Jordan wasn't in Curry's universe. No one ever has been. And the volume argument in favor of Jordan doesn't work very well because the Warriors are so good. If Curry was playing on a .500 team, you could say "he does a lot, but he should be doing more". Since he plays on a 53-5 team, it's pretty difficult argue that he should be doing anything differently, though from a purely mathematical viewpoint, there is a good argument that Curry should shoot 30-40 times a game, even if it means a drop in his percentages.

Actually, at this point, it's kind of a fun scenario to contemplate. Say the Warriors have a season in the near future where they have major injury issues, and a sudden drop in performance. Their best gameplan in that scenario might be to turn Curry completely loose, and actually encourage him to relentlessly fire away. It would be fascinating to see if that would work- if Curry could put up 40 ppg, how much of drop-off in efficiency he'd have, that kind of thing.

 

[.S&C.]

Good post.

I defend Curry most of the time, because there are too many people who come on here with "the best players I saw when I was young could crush anyone today like a bug" attitude. Which is usually just a sign of older guys romanticizing their youths. But I did see Jordan's entire career, and what separated him is that he pulled himself to the top of the mountain, and then just pushed down anyone else trying to get there, in a way that no other player ever has. We're talking 8 years (with a 1 1/2 year pause) where the biggest story in the NBA was pretty much always "can anyone beat Jordan?". And the answer in 6 of those years was "Not a chance". Yeah, he had good teammates, but he was the Alpha and Omega on 6 NBA championship teams.

Curry is doing unprecedented things, and he might actually be having a better year than Jordan ever had, but he needs to keep going for at least another 4-5 years before he really earns the (lifetime) comparison.

Yea, I get nostalgia, but on the other side of that coin, younger guys always think their guy is the best because it's current. It goes both ways.

Someone has to be the best, older or younger.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

Why are people surprised no one is in his face when he's 35 feet from the basket? Traditional wisdom says you let him take a half court shot. You're asking players to go again their instincts on a broken play.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

On the other hand, this is the first year anyone in the history of the game at this level. He's on pace to best Wilt Chamberlain's 1963 season for the best season ever (player efficiency record).

Anthony Davis' PER to end the year last year was 30.89- he was actually above Wilt for a good deal of last season.

Steph Curry isn't the first player in the past 10 years to approach that record(Lebron has the 4th highest ever I believe). MJ has 4 of the top 10 PER seasons of all-time. Now, Curry is probably going to set the record, but it's hardly the first year anyone has been at that level for PER.

 

[BlueBomb]

If you truly believe he's not being guarded, then you're not watching the same games I am. People are draped on him. He's open because he GETS himself open with a ridiculous handle.