By the time he left Oskar was one of our better/smarter defenders, but yes different positions.
Start Nwuli!!
- Thread starter PatrickRU92
- Start date
Yes - but after how many seasons of development? Zrno’s defense does not look to be fixable this season and he’s not big enough to guard a forward so not having the speed to cover guards is a big problem. Seriously massive. He’s also a poor ball handler for a guard so that combines for a pretty bad combination to make a case for PT on a BIG team.
I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I do think he has a quick release which you didn't agree with somewhere. Per 40 his numbers aren't all that dissimilar from Badalau.
I don’t see a quick release from either of the Euros. Denis is just bigger so he’s able to play positions that don’t require playing defense on a guard.
Besides having a quick, high release point, Francis also shoots a high clip of 3s off dribble penetration either in transition or where he creates space with a step back the way Geo used to. While overall those shots are not as efficient as say open deep wing shots, success with them should have little bearing on his height because they aren’t the types of shots that are prone to being blocked or altered by a close out defender. Zrno is exclusively a catch and shoot player. He doesn’t have other tools at any level - never mind high major.
Really? He has 8 field goals on the entire season and all of them were catch and shoot 3s. Three of them in that Tenn game andwhether garbage time or not, isn’t that relevant to “what he can do” because regardless of competition, literally every one of his baskets was the same - catch and shoot 3. He doesn’t seem to get phased by a close out defender - I’ll give him that for sure. But it seems pretty clear to me that we’ve seen “what he can do” on offense and it’s restricted to catch and shoot. It’s not like he hasn’t had opportunities. His FT attempts in the TN game were bonus shots I think - not off shot attempts. If he was able to penetrate or score in other ways he’d have more than 5 two point shot attempts recorded on the season. He's yet to make a 2 point FG.
Do not see the excessive love for Francis and the harsh criticism of Zrno. Francis has shown some scoring ability but that will be neutralized in conference. He shoots way too much and never passes enough . Dylan was posted 5 times in the last game and he never passed once. He doesn’t pass to Manny on the pick and role. He does want to make sure he gets his shots up regardless of it is a good or bad shot. His height will be an issue defensively.
Zrno has some work to do defensively but you do not just dismiss your second best 3 point shooter after Dylan and sit him down. If our offense is working properly and Dylan and Buchanan are driving and they get picked up or stopped , a 3 point kickout is there and you would want Zrno to shoot it.
We cannot play Davis and Francis together in conference as their height will hurt us as will their defense. I think bringing Francis off the bench at the 13 minute mark is a better solution as he can then be the scorer he wants to be when Dylan comes out for a breather. He will get his shots in there and hopefully this avoids scoring draughts that we will have. Even if he is not efficient , scoring some points helps. He is a good foul shooter so if he can get fouled better yet.
Zrno has some work to do defensively but you do not just dismiss your second best 3 point shooter after Dylan and sit him down. If our offense is working properly and Dylan and Buchanan are driving and they get picked up or stopped , a 3 point kickout is there and you would want Zrno to shoot it.
We cannot play Davis and Francis together in conference as their height will hurt us as will their defense. I think bringing Francis off the bench at the 13 minute mark is a better solution as he can then be the scorer he wants to be when Dylan comes out for a breather. He will get his shots in there and hopefully this avoids scoring draughts that we will have. Even if he is not efficient , scoring some points helps. He is a good foul shooter so if he can get fouled better yet.
Its a fair point. I havent been impressed with him at all yet everyone here just glossing over he was out best player vs Tennessee
I sense Lino and Nwuli will have a really difficult time vs the level of competition in the next 2. Even with his erratic play I expect alot of Buchanan the next 2
Probably because we’ve played 8 games and he’s scored a total of 8 field goals. 3 of them coming in that game which was a blow out loss. In 7 other games he’s shooting under 30% on the season from 3 and 0% from 2. That’s horrible.
Now its not a big sample yet, so it wouldn’t be thT big deal except that he also looks bad in so many other areas. He doesn’t look playable on defense, can’t handle the ball well when pressured and has not shown an ability to score the ball in any other ways besides catch and shoot 3s (considering this - being below 30% on those is a problem). And he’s only like 64% on FTs. So it’s not exactly a great combo right now.
For the avoidance of doubt, Francis is currently shooting the exact same percentage from 3 as Zrno on higher volume. So I’m not sure why it’s a given Zrno is the second best outside shooter on the team or why you or anyone thinks Zrno should be taking those shots over him. I think you just want him to be better based on preseason expectiom - we all did. but even Pike has said Denis was the one shooting lights out in practices - not Zrno. Maybe he will turn out to be the next coming of Cam Spencer but so far we’re just not seeing that. Zrno has to make 3s at a significantly higher clip than Francis to replace him in the line up.
Totally agree. I don't think I need to see anything more from Zrno tbh. Everyone pay attention when he comes in tonight I would place a large wager that Purdue goes right at him on defense. The low majors were doing it with a high level of success. Wanting more of him because of Tenn game where he just got hot from 3 for a few shots is pretty wild imo.
Funny because I actually think Francis is our best passer and is tied for the team lead in APG. He's not great defensively but he's light years better than Zrno. Him and Grant are the only two guys on the team who can get downhill and score/get fouled on the team and he's shooting FTs absolutely lights out. And he's the only guy on the team I'd trust in the Pike system to have the ball late in the shot clock to generate offense when we play that one high/four low look.
Listen he's not Dylan, Geo, or Corey out there...but he's the best we've got this season and (imo) he needs to play as much as he can handle.
What's Francis shooting from 3 if you remove the 1st game against Rider? It's in the 20's
I'm not convinced we'll see Zrno tonight. Hoping the rotations are tightened up and I'm not sure he's going to be given a chance at extended run before it happens.
I don't rate Francis highly and think we'll see a dip in his numbers coming (hope I'm wrong), BUT I'd argue his numbers thus far are better than Corey's, especially his last year here. Corey is very overrated here.
If one chooses to remove only the Rider game from the statistics (which is arbitrary in the first place but that’s what you said so let’s go with it) - all other games:
Francis - 29% from 3
Zrno - 30% from 3
If you take out Francis’ Hail Mary heave at the end of the ND they are an identical 30%.
Just saying…. Outside of Rider and TN - Zrno has made a total of three 3s the rest of the season. He’s 3-15 in the other 6 games. And he literally brings nothing else positive except his supposed shooting ability.
Last edited:
I mean - what have you seen so far that suggests he should get more time at the 2?
To this point, smaller Tariq is grabbing more rebounds per minute than listed 6-7 Zrno. He has more assists, more steals and less turnovers per minute despite handling the ball a lot more than Zrno while on the court.
You tried to come up with a carve out scenerio with Rider to demonstrate he’s been a better 3 point shooter but even that doesn’t hold true. From 2, there’s no comparison, Zrno hasn’t even made a 2 point FG yet. And Francis is also a much better FT shooter.
So again - your right, we don’t know how Francis (or anyone on the team for that matter) will do as the competition steps up. All we have to go by at this point is output to date. If your the coach, why are you playing Zrno over Francis? You’d be crazy to do so. I don’t get it.
You are tripping. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and we will see how it plays out in conference and against Seton Hall and Penn. Best passer ? Really ? I know the bar is low but come on now. You think his defense is good ? Really ? You really think against bigger quicker guards in conference you trust him to get off a good shot in crunch time ?
Tonight he will guard Loyer for a while until Pike decides to play Nwuili who will guard him . Davis , Nwuili, Buchanan , Grant and Ogbole should be the main rotation with Francis subbing for Davis . Then the Euros and Dortch . Hopefully Pike abandons the automatic subbing at the under 16 timeout and lets the players flow together. When Francis comes in he can go get his shots and try to score.
You don’t get that he is capable of hitting threes that keep you in the game. Tonight for example , with the exception of Loyer , who I pray Pike will start Nwuili on him , Purdue makes a ton of 2’s. The only way to counteract that is hit the same number , which is never coming close to happening , or hit 3’s to offset their 2 point makes. Zrno gives you that ability. You rail about his defense but Francis defense is not much better. Zrno is a shooter and the shots have gone down as we would have hoped , so far ? But so far , is not the end of the season and we will need his 3’s this year in games to keep it close or to pull one out.
What makes you think he’s capable of hitting 3s better than Francis? What data? The available information to this point unfortunately says he’s not.
He is a lot worse on D and sadly that’s not an endorsement of Francis - more like a Jaden Jones comparative. That’s where Zrno is. He’s a very big negative at all facets of D.
He can play a wing instead of a 2 guard and let Nwuili or Buchanan play the 2.
If you had a shooting contest , Zrno would beat Francis. He has better form and the shot looks like it will drop. An example , is at the end of the Notre Dane game , Jmike missed a three and Zrno’s miss was half way down and came out. Would have cut it to 2 points with 15 seconds . Unlucky
Again - I just don’t get this. Pike sees him every day in practice in addition to the games and has him on the bench. That’s a lot of “bad luck”. I’d say it’s safe to assume he doesn’t have much of a 2 point game at the rim or otherwise if he hasn’t made a 2 point field goal yet against our cupcake schedule - no? That can’t be more “bad luck”.
Also - you could argue that perhaps Francis should scale back on the self created 3s he takes (the step backs and transition 3s off the dribble) but he’s currently shooting at the same in game 3 point percentage as Zrno even with those self created attempts in the equation. I’m sure his catch and shoot percentage is considerably higher than 33% which would be your shooting contest. Zrno’s game seems to be entirely limited to catch and shoot because if he had other moves you’d think we would’ve seen them by now against the weakest part of the schedule.
It’s unclear how many open look catch and shoot opportunities will be available to anyone with the step up in competition. That’s another thing. PJ barely played when conference play started. Zrno’s offensive game seems similar to his - catch and shoot. Francis undoubtedly has a much more verasatile game looking to score and create in a variety of different ways . Now whether he’ll be as effective after the competition steps up is TBD, but regardless, I’m not following why you think Zrno will suddenly be able to help us more than he has (which is basically not at all) playing against better defenders.
Last edited:
I never said he was shooting better than Zrno. I said he’s shooting the same as Zrno from 3, way better from 2 (Zrno being at 0%), much better FT, and also doing better at rebounding, assisting and handling the ball (less TOs per min). That doesn’t scream more relative PT for Zrno - does it?
I wasn't really saying he was a better shooter, more pointing out neither of them are very good thus far. Zrno has been really poor, but I do think a first year foreigner is more likely to have a longer acclimation period than a US kid
Possibly - but that’s not even the original point. Francis isn’t starting over Zrno because he’s a better catch and shoot perimeter shooter. To this point, he’s been a much better all around player in the games we’ve played so far and its laughable if anyone suggests otherwise. The data speaks for itself. This is coming from someone who did not want Francis recruited to come here at all. For now, he’s earned his spot in the starting line up.
Francis is a high volume scorer on a team that really needs a back court go to player. We don’t know yet if he can be effective against better competition, but for right now, his efficiency is comparable to other players who have played for us at his position / style. Geo Baker never in his RU career shot at higher efficiency than where Francis is at right now. Neither did Corey Sanders. JY had one more efficient year and was less efficient than Tariq’a current numbers every other season including the year he was at Oregon. These were highly regarded players at RU and for now, Tariq is producing at their level. It may change, but that’s where things are at right now based on live game data.
What are you talking about “bad luck” ? I mentioned Zrno’s 3 at the end of the Notre Dame game was in and out and that was unlucky. Never said anything about his 2 point game. But if you have been watching , it appears clear , he is being told to be near that 3 point line whether in the corner or just above it. They run a screen near the sideline and hope to have him pop a 3. They are not looking for him to shoot from 2. The analytics people would agree. The coach’s want him to catch and shoot. It would be more effective or efficient if it came out of a kick out after penetration .
Your defense of Francis as being a huge step up from Zrno is misguided and their roles are so different. Listen , I root for Rutgers. If Francis is penetrating hitting his jumpers within the flow of the offense , nailing an open or step back 3 or passing to the bigs then I will be very happy. Reality is what I am seeing is he shoots too much , dribbles too much and not seeing a great defensive player either. Hope things change as we are only 8 games in. You think Zrno has no value and I think we need his 3 point shooting. Unless Dylan , JMike and Buchanan are going to take 15 threes and hit 38% or better.
The point I made is that Francis hits the kick out 3 on the deep wing at a high rate. If you could isolate that stat you’d see that. Maybe he shouldn’t take as many of the other types of 3s but sometime our offense stalls and shooters aren’t getting looks. Someone has to take shots. My point is - to this point, Francis truly has been just as good at hitting open look 3s as Zrno. I’m not sure what you about their roles. The reason Zrno isn’t doing more ball handling at the 2 is because when he’s tried he’s turned it over. It’s blatantly obvious that his handle is poor. The data supports this and so does the film. He clearly isn’t a physical player also noted by his low overall rebounding stats and he looks soft against Patriot teams. Doesn’t seem to embrace contact at all. This is the information out there. If Zrno could penetrate and do other things surely he would have the green light to do them.
I’ll add - we’re not at practice, but if Zrno was shooting lights out there he’d surely be getting more reps in the games too. I’m sure, like with Oskar, there will be a few token games where he shoots lights out and contributes but he doesn’t seem to offer any other skill set right now.
Ok. Back and forth has run its course.
let’s get back to the thread. Start Nwuili. I think it is time. He cannot start Badalau and he has played too many minutes without scoring. Now an argument can be made for Buchanan. Not sure he can stay with Loyer compared to Nwuili. But Buchanan in attack mode has to be out there for more minutes.
Even more importantly , Pike has to stop immediately his automatic subs at the under 16 minute timeout. Barring foul trouble , Dylan and Manny should go to about the 13 minute mark before a blow. Just as important let the guys who are out on the floor or subbed in , remain to get a flow. If someone is stinking it up , out they come but otherwise key the players on the floor get a flow. It is no coincidence that the second half Notre Dame and second half UnLV the rotations were out there longer and the results were better.
JMike has to fight like hell to get over the screen on high pick and roll and not go under against Brandon smith . We need his best defensive effort to make this competitive. Same goes for Mark when subbed in. Control Loyer so they do not go off from 3 and Nwuili should be in lockdown mode. Do not give up open threes
let’s get back to the thread. Start Nwuili. I think it is time. He cannot start Badalau and he has played too many minutes without scoring. Now an argument can be made for Buchanan. Not sure he can stay with Loyer compared to Nwuili. But Buchanan in attack mode has to be out there for more minutes.
Even more importantly , Pike has to stop immediately his automatic subs at the under 16 minute timeout. Barring foul trouble , Dylan and Manny should go to about the 13 minute mark before a blow. Just as important let the guys who are out on the floor or subbed in , remain to get a flow. If someone is stinking it up , out they come but otherwise key the players on the floor get a flow. It is no coincidence that the second half Notre Dame and second half UnLV the rotations were out there longer and the results were better.
JMike has to fight like hell to get over the screen on high pick and roll and not go under against Brandon smith . We need his best defensive effort to make this competitive. Same goes for Mark when subbed in. Control Loyer so they do not go off from 3 and Nwuili should be in lockdown mode. Do not give up open threes
I've noticed that when Manny is "tired/winded" he gets sloppy, but I totally agree with you that the "automatic ice changes" have to stop
I mean he leads the team in assists. If he's not, who is?
Never said he was a good defender. Just light years better than Zrno.