...not sure I’ve ever heard quieter fans, and I’ve heard ours! Very non-intimidating atmosphere. Nice people, perfectly nice stadium. Good NU turnout but the sun was as brutal as our offense, so many fans retreated to the concourse. Good defense on the field the whole damn game. Offense really inept — as usual. Hunter has some raw talent, obviously, but really is a project. Last few seasons suggest that we will improve, but looking really really rough in the early going is very annoying. And this year’s schedule is unforgiving early on. No room for error. But far too many facets of the offensive game are glaringly week. Is there someone whose job it is to, like, coordinate all that stuff?
Stanford fans...
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We do not have an intimidating atmosphere normally, although sometimes we rise to the occasion for a big Pac-12 game. We call the stadium "The Wok" for September day games because it is lots of metal and plastic, which keeps folks at home watching TV in the AC or in the shady concourse. On top of that, the students don't even arrive on campus for at least 3 weeks. No home field advantage at all. I've always found it a great place to watch a game, though. No bad seats.Good luck the rest of the way...except for #99. F him!
He’s a good kid who made a bad play. Totally out of character for him and our team. You saw he got a tongue lashing on the sidelines. Hope Costello is Ok and is ready next week. Good luck.
Regarding the hit...will just say this...if the shoe were on the other foot and that were an Ohio State defender who took out TJ or Hunter, or we watched an SEC player do it, we would be singing a very, very, very different tune. From the replay you could clearly see that only after the QB began to slide did Brown launch and forearm him.
Of course I want to give Brown the benefit of the doubt and say it was "out of character" but I admit as a fan that was the biggest takeaway of the game for me and brought quite a bit of reflection on how I watch CFB and what I think of players who are guilty of such blatant late hits.
Of course I want to give Brown the benefit of the doubt and say it was "out of character" but I admit as a fan that was the biggest takeaway of the game for me and brought quite a bit of reflection on how I watch CFB and what I think of players who are guilty of such blatant late hits.
The QB was barely down, if he was down when initial contact was made. No helmet to helmet contact. Nasty conract happens on every play when you have 22 guys on the field. The slow motion changes the context. TJ was hit on a play that was closer to late hit or targeting than the Brown play being discussed. There was another play where the NU QB had clearly released the ball and was pushed after he was defenseless. While the rule is critical and necessary.. the calls are as arbitrary and inconsistent as block vs charge in basketball. Need to fix this.. safety is important but must be applied fairly. I saw many hits yesterday in other games worse than Browns. He is my favorite Cat. He has not made a play like this before that I remember. Too bad it happened.
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The targeting rule involves forcible contact to the head with clear intent. Brown’s forearm shiver hit to Costello’s head clearly qualifies for the targeting penalty. If you listened to the Fox broadcast, the explanation given by the replay officials who could have buzzed in to enforce the targeting rule on that play is that Brown’s forearm contact was not intentional but accidental. They deemed his forearm slipped into that position as he was trying to stop his body momentum from hitting Costello once he started his slide. It did not look like that on the replay but knowing how we play i’d Like to think that was not his intent.
I think it was the result of defensive player frustration, and inexcusable. They'd been on the field the entire half, Costello kept dancing away from them when they could collapse the pocket, and our offense was, well, I've covered that enough elsewhere. Our D Line really wanted to get to the QB, but were generally stymied and frustrated.
So you believe it was intentional? I hope not but it's hard to argue otherwise based on the replay.
It looked like it to me, but Fitz let him back on the field. I doubt he'd do that if he thought it was intentional. I do trust Fitz's character 100%.
A very subjective and inconsistently applied rule. Call was reasonable but Pass interference could have been called on Stanford negating Hunters first interception.. there have been many worse examples of Targeting ruled as incidental. For last night, Northwestern tacklers whiffed constantly. If it was intentional then it it was one of the few targets NU defenders achieved all night. Unlike a QB standing in one spot in the pocket or a receiver with his eyes on the ball, the slide is a moving target from a player who chose to be a runner that is initiating contact as much as the defender. We all hate seeing injuries and beed this rule. Any way hope NU avoids the penalty for the rest of the year. Sure hope that TJ and Standford QB do well and thrive. Am really glad TJ will be getting his NU Degree.
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It seems to me that slow motion has put the players in a very tough position. The game is played FAST. Everyone is criticizing missed tackles due in large part to hesitant reactions. Brown led with a forearm which I admit is questionable but my impression was that he tried to dive to one side to avoid contact. Bottom line, did his forearm hit Costello in the head? Did not look like it.
From what I saw it absolutely did. How did the helmet come off otherwise? The question I had is was it intentional?
I would love to see the replay again even though it was played plenty. I cannot deny the result of the play - Costello hurt and helmet off - but I just did not see the forearm hit. The penalty assessed reinforces that in that a personal foul was called for hitting a sliding player but targeting was not called. If that forearm obviously hit the head in the replay, it seems to me that the replay officials would have had to call targeting, intentional or not. What I don't know is whether targeting requires hitting the head - helmet or otherwise.
My thinking was it was not intentional but in the heat of the moment his thought was “uh oh, I can’t hit with my helmet here, maybe if I put my arm out it won’t look as bad.”
In my mind it looked pretty bad, and he was certainly deserving of the late hit penalty, but I think he got out of targeting because he put the arm up. Even if technically you can get called for targeting with your arm.
The game is so fast.
In my mind it looked pretty bad, and he was certainly deserving of the late hit penalty, but I think he got out of targeting because he put the arm up. Even if technically you can get called for targeting with your arm.
The game is so fast.
It looked to me that he committed to the tackle, left his feet, and then immediately sought to avoid the contact. His hands and arms were preparing to absorb contact from the ground.
Had he wanted to hit the QB, he would have extended his arm and elbow into the QB. It would have been an ugly, ugly hit.
The announcers went on and on about something I just was not seeing in the replays. Yes, he should have gotten the flag, but the mistake was leaving his feet. But he was effective at getting his body over and past the sliding QB.
Had he wanted to hit the QB, he would have extended his arm and elbow into the QB. It would have been an ugly, ugly hit.
The announcers went on and on about something I just was not seeing in the replays. Yes, he should have gotten the flag, but the mistake was leaving his feet. But he was effective at getting his body over and past the sliding QB.
I guess I would just say/ask this...if/when an Ohio State defender does this to our QB, in precisely the same manner...are we inclined to yield the same grace/benefit of the doubt? Or if we saw that highlight in any other game, would we say, "the guy probably didn't mean it...was moving too fast to shift his direction." I would confidently say no.
For defensive coaches (not just at NU) I imagine it is a tricky balance to demand aggression with split-second judgment and restraint. As for intent, I guess I would ask this...if Brown was about to run into an old lady or a small child at top speed, do you think he would have led with his forearm? Or would he have put both his hands up to soften the collision, or shifted his body weight to avoid the hit?
Whether Brown deserves our wrath or our forgiveness...as I stated in my post last night, it definitely challenged me to reflect on how I regard NU and our players in comparison to other programs. Either other teams/players deserve our forgiveness, or Brown deserves our wrath...but if we forgive him just because he is "our" player then we're really no better than the fan bases with loath.
For defensive coaches (not just at NU) I imagine it is a tricky balance to demand aggression with split-second judgment and restraint. As for intent, I guess I would ask this...if Brown was about to run into an old lady or a small child at top speed, do you think he would have led with his forearm? Or would he have put both his hands up to soften the collision, or shifted his body weight to avoid the hit?
Whether Brown deserves our wrath or our forgiveness...as I stated in my post last night, it definitely challenged me to reflect on how I regard NU and our players in comparison to other programs. Either other teams/players deserve our forgiveness, or Brown deserves our wrath...but if we forgive him just because he is "our" player then we're really no better than the fan bases with loath.
Good God. It was a penalty not mass murder. A bad play. He put himself in a bad position and absolutely should have pulled up. Once he was it that position, he was either going to hit him with his helmet or his arm. Doesn’t make it right, but questioning how we regard NU players for this one play seems over the top. My problem is leading with the helmet.
I see a tone of “ we would never do that” in a lot of posts after infractions either on the field or off the field. “Never” is a strong statement and yes NU has committed flagrant fouls before, had players arrested, done stupid things etc. The measure that matters to me is “ how often does it happen”. Know what, rarely. There over 100 guys on a team each year. Young guys. I personally give the benefit of the doubt to a player/ team that doesn’t have a history of dirty play and it’s a slippery slope to proclaim intent to commit a dirty play.
Not directed at you Sheff, but NU isn’t always choir boys and I see zero evidence that Brown should be convicted before he has his say.
Actualy.; if you watch Fitz's postgame presser, it was much more doubtful than the announcers were claiming. In fact, a number of reporters from Stanford were at the presser and were fairly adamamt that it wasn't targeting...
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I didn't think it was targeting either. A late hit, yes. For all of our rules guys out there, does it have to a helmet to helmet hit or a arm or body blow to the head for Targeting to be called?
According to several media the day of and after officials were questioned and stated there was no targeting.
Field Officials were B1G
Review Officials were PAC12
Officials Supervisors stated no targeting
Field Officials were B1G
Review Officials were PAC12
Officials Supervisors stated no targeting
The video replay guys seem to call everything targeting. This went to replay and was not deemed targeting. End of story.
We also need to keep in mind that Costello slid late twice before this play, one time causing Paddy to have to put on the brakes in such an awkward fashion that Paddy could have easily been injured. So this type of play cuts both ways when you're playing at full speed, imo.
Half time ABC Sports crew covering yesterday's Oklahoma vs. Houston game discussed the hit. The former athlete of the duo (didn't catch who it was) was adamant that it wasn't targeting and that the non-call to that end was the right one. He went on to say that the rules around what constitutes targeting were tightened up after last season.
When I first saw the play in real-time, I too was outraged, but looking at the reply, it really seemed to me that Brown was trying to minimize the effect of his hit. True, he shouldn't have put himself in that position, and deserved the penalty, but again, in his defense, if we haven't tackled since late December (as we were told several times by players and coaches prior to the game) judgement and timing are bound to be off a bit.
Actually, I'm inclined to give any player from any team the benefit of the doubt unless I see a pattern of late hits and penalties from a particular team or player. I can be cynical about a lot of things, but I guess I'm still pollyanna enough to believe that the great majority of players don't deliberately set out to injure other players. As long as football is an aggressive game, these things will happen. I can get as riled as anyone if one of our guys is the recipient of a late hit, but that typically is a heat of the moment thing.
At the Penn State game Saturday there were three reviews for targeting. One involved a Penn State linebacker giving the Idaho player what looked on replay like a shoulder-to-shoulder shiver. Didn't even look close to targeting. The only one upheld was by an Idaho player, and I didn't think even that one looked particularly flagrant. You have to protect the players, especially with what we know about long-term brain damage now, but it must be a confusing time to be a defensive player.
Northwestern has been among the least-penalized college teams in recent years, so I don't think this is part of the team's DNA. But we're certainly going to have some personal fouls. Of course we should "forgive" the player unless it can be proven he is a headhunter. No need to get biblical about this.
I actually sort of agree with this. I've always put NU on a pedestal when it comes to on and off the field reputation, and this play just made me appreciate the humanity of it all. And to your point..."how often does it happen?" is really the question we should all ask ourselves...but I would also say that goes for other programs as well. We have the benefit of knowing Brown is not a frequent offender nor does he have any sort of reputation for being a dirty player...admittedly I don't follow the track records of any other defensive programs or individual players; just think it's important to keep that in mind and pass our judgments equitably.
Pre-game atmosphere was the big fun. The Stanford Band and Tree passed us while waiting to get into the NU tailgate - NO early admission - and they were fired up. The NU tailgate was not as good as the Cal tailgate. No addresses, no big screen, but plenty of food stations and much of it was good, but the burgers were overcooked a week ago. Face-painting stations. There were plenty of bars and enough servers so there was seldom a wait of more than a minute. Walking around, this fan comes over to admire the tropical-floral purple and white shirts my bro and his wife wore. You know this guy is a fan cause he's stylin' purple camo pants. Everybody raps a minute and somehow "Maui" came up. The guy has a name tag: "Gary". Sure enough it's Just Gary from the board. Small world. "How'd you know that?" he asked. "Just a stab.", I explained. Not much "Just" about him, big dude, wouldn't be surprised to find out he played at Dyche... so I decided not to renew our disagreement concerning December in SF. Always meet some interesting new folks at these, a couple SF attorneys (spent 32 years in SF) and a retired professor from a small eastern college sat at our table. Also saw some folks I met at other games. We all probably pass by several people we know but no longer recognize, but I looked for some as I always do.
Closer to the stadium, the Stanford tailgate was well attended. The Wok is well-named, cause it was blazing hot, and there were many heat-related medical problems, including 2 right next to us. Many retreated to the shady concourse and at half-time, you could hardly move through the crowd. It's a really nice stadium, though with clean and working restrooms, decent concessions that serve fast and great sight lines. Too much ugly O from NU in the sight lines, though... The Stanford fans in Section 236 all knew each other - about a 20-seat by 20-seat square of fans were real chatty. We were the only 4 NU fans and suffered discrimination.
Regarding 99, he's one of our best players, so he doesn't take cheap shots. IMO, the momentum of his movement toward Costello became uncontrollable before Costello slid, and there was nothing more for Brown to do than what he did. Everybody regrets that play and NU fans get the resentment. Quick recovery to Costello. He tore up NU, and it could easily have been worse 'cause he just missed at least 2 WRs that had gotten behind the NU D.
Closer to the stadium, the Stanford tailgate was well attended. The Wok is well-named, cause it was blazing hot, and there were many heat-related medical problems, including 2 right next to us. Many retreated to the shady concourse and at half-time, you could hardly move through the crowd. It's a really nice stadium, though with clean and working restrooms, decent concessions that serve fast and great sight lines. Too much ugly O from NU in the sight lines, though... The Stanford fans in Section 236 all knew each other - about a 20-seat by 20-seat square of fans were real chatty. We were the only 4 NU fans and suffered discrimination.
Regarding 99, he's one of our best players, so he doesn't take cheap shots. IMO, the momentum of his movement toward Costello became uncontrollable before Costello slid, and there was nothing more for Brown to do than what he did. Everybody regrets that play and NU fans get the resentment. Quick recovery to Costello. He tore up NU, and it could easily have been worse 'cause he just missed at least 2 WRs that had gotten behind the NU D.
I noticed the dude with the purple camo pants before the game, didn't know he was the renowned Just Gary. I remember being impressed.
Yeah this is partly my interpretation. It was a bad play by Brown and he deserved the penalty, but I get why they went personal foul and not targeting. And the way that Costello was "late sliding" in that first half was problematic and caused multiple near misses earlier - I can understand why Brown got over-committed to the play. In the stadium replay likely isn't as good as on TV, but my interpretation was that he left his feet and got stuck in the air, then tried to pull up but too late so made contact with the head. Bad result, but I do not think bad intention.
Great point. We would flip if the other team did it. See the Rant Board. It applies to the Football Board as well.
Erik
Erik
“Just” catching up on my board reads. I haven’t been diving into them like past years but still enjoy adding my two cents. Ha! I guess I better keep the purple camp pants as my trademark. I’m trying to convince the NU athletic department to go with them as part of a team uniform.
Yes, I was admiring the purple Aloha shirts. I was in search of board members at the tailgate but the crowd was a bit thin. I still plan on making the tailgates at home games.