St. Johns had $4 million for NIL

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
0
We weren’t given $3m for Ace/Dylan.

Did we get lucky that two players we already had relationships with had these deals such that incremental NIL from Rutgers was less important? Yes, absolutely. But that is very, very, very different from being given $3m to recruit them. The $3m was not a factor in Rutgers’ specific favor.
 
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fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
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Why do any businesses choose to pay college athletes? Vitamin water, Fanatics , Bar stool sports, Nike etc…

The Vitamin water guy wants St John’s to win for personal reasons. As does the Nike guy with Oregon. Framing those relationships as equivalent to normal business relationships is absurd.
 

ru66

All-American
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"He’s not ! He’s awful! Look at any of his players that transfer. They go from 25-32 min at Ru to bench players struggling for minutes." ??? Let me see, teams went after RU players , paid them money to transfer to their schools and Pike can't evaluate players. You're just a Pike malcontent. Those other coaches like Hurley, Nate Oats, and the rest must really suck.
 

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
14,410
13,276
113
If money is independent of the school the player is at it seems silly to count it as “money on the court”. It’s essentially the difference between salary and outside endorsements, Ace/Dylan could’ve gone to Mississippi Valley St and gotten the same money, it doesn’t instantly make Mississippi Valley St an NIL powerhouse

Correct.

But when comparing 2024-2025 Mississppi Valley State to 2024-2025 Jackson State, you wouldn't say "Well Jackson State had $1m NIL to spend on their roster and MVS only had 500k to spend. Can't expect to compete."
And completely ignore the value of Ace/Dylan.

I'm not sure anyone is saying we are a NIL powerhouse now because of Ace/Dylan.
But in the vacuum of 2024-2025, our roster (NIL internal or external) isn't as cheap as some make it out to be.

That's simply facts.
Lineup every roster in the country and what was "spent".

Unless you want to remove "outside" NIL from everyone. Good luck trying.
Wimsatt had a deal with NB Devco.
That was technically "outside" of the NIL collective.
 

RUDivision

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The Vitamin water guy wants St John’s to win for personal reasons. As does the Nike guy with Oregon. Framing those relationships as equivalent to normal business relationships is absurd.
That’s not the question! Why do businesses give money to college athletes?

Repole graduated St John’s in 91 and didn’t kick in Vitamin water money until this year. Why?? He always had personal reasons for them to be good. Why pay now???

It’s a business and he knows with Pitnos brand success he can reap the financial benefits.

So I ask again why do corporations pay college athletes
 

RUDivision

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Here is why Repole has decided to pay and will continue with Pitino at the helm.

St John’s Alumni base is currently listed at just under 200k living members. The avg person spends $1,400 a year on water/sports drink a year. With the team success this year Repole is hoping that Alumni ant NYC residents think of Vitamin water before Gatorade Body armor etc. it is downstream revenue capture at its finest. So he views his 4MM NIL as R&D for a future annual payout of :

*200,000 Alumni x $1,400 = 280,000,000

* That’s excluding the millions of New Yorkers jumping on the band wagon.

Ruebenstein Fanatics
Rutgers currently has 600k living Alumni worldwide. With a historic season he was counting on the average RU fan to purchase minimum one piece of merchandise also a downstream revenue capture. The average merch ranges from $30 hat $40 T-shirt $ 85 hoodie etc.

600,000 x $30• = $ 18,000,000

* use the low end price

It’s not hard to understand the value of building reciprocal corporate NIL relationships.
 
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RUDivision

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"He’s not ! He’s awful! Look at any of his players that transfer. They go from 25-32 min at Ru to bench players struggling for minutes." ??? Let me see, teams went after RU players , paid them money to transfer to their schools and Pike can't evaluate players. You're just a Pike malcontent. Those other coaches like Hurley, Nate Oats, and the rest must

Cliffs minutes have been cut in half and Hurley poached a 1 year rental!

Jalen miller
Oscar Palmquist
Jayden Jones
Gavin Griffiths
Peter Kiss
Derek Simpson
Wolfe
Dean Reiber

Pikes stacking talent !

Will also look past outside of Ace and Dylan there is not 1 other single player on the current roster who is a Power 4 talent. NOT ONE
 

S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
14,273
27,457
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That’s not the question! Why do businesses give money to college athletes?

Repole graduated St John’s in 91 and didn’t kick in Vitamin water money until this year. Why?? He always had personal reasons for them to be good. Why pay now???

It’s a business and he knows with Pitnos brand success he can reap the financial benefits.

So I ask again why do corporations pay college athletes

He’s giving his money, not Vitamin water money, from what I understand.

This is a total different scenario than the NIKE and Fanatics $ for Ace/Dylan.

These companies wanted to establish deals and relationships early on, which will most likely result in more deals and multi millions of dollars down the road for all parties.
 

RUDivision

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He’s giving his money, not Vitamin water money, from what I understand.

This is a total different scenario than the NIKE and Fanatics $ for Ace/Dylan.

These companies wanted to establish deals and relationships early on, which will most likely result in more deals and multi millions of dollars down the road for all parties.
Fair but Repole money is Vitamin water money. He is donating to benefit financially. Simple

Fanatics and Nike donating to Ace/Dylan to benefit financially. Simple

We may not have a billionaire graduate wanting to play but that doesn’t mean we can’t build billionaire relationships.

We did this year and failed miserably.
 

S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
14,273
27,457
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Fair but Repole money is Vitamin water money. He is donating to benefit financially. Simple

Fanatics and Nike donating to Ace/Dylan to benefit financially. Simple


We may not have a billionaire graduate wanting to play but that doesn’t mean we can’t build billionaire relationships.

We did this year and failed miserably.

It may be simple, but they are two totally different situations.

Repole is donating because he’s a massive St. John’s booster. He’s an alum. He’s looking for reasons to throw his money at things and is not looking for ROI. Repole $ will be there for St. John’s next year no matter what.

NIKE / Fanatcis are looking for ROI down the road. NIKE / Fanatics $ will only be there for Rutgers if we land a top, top recruit (5 star)…which we know is not happening.
 
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Fat Koko

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Here is why Repole has decided to pay and will continue with Pitino at the helm.

St John’s Alumni base is currently listed at just under 200k living members. The avg person spends $1,400 a year on water/sports drink a year. With the team success this year Repole is hoping that Alumni ant NYC residents think of Vitamin water before Gatorade Body armor etc. it is downstream revenue capture at its finest. So he views his 4MM NIL as R&D for a future annual payout of :

Mike sold Vitamin Water in 2007. He founded Body Armor too and sold it for a higher price than Vitamin Water.

Both owned by Coca Cola today.

Pepsi owns Gatorade.

Doubt Mike cares if his donations boost a brand he sold 18 years ago.

I really don’t understand your take stating Mike’s NIL donations are targeted at growing Vitamin Water’s business.

After all, Gatorade is a St. John’s sponsor, not Vitamin Water.
 
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ScarletNYC

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It may be simple, but they are two totally different situations.

Repole is donating because he’s a massive St. John’s booster. He’s an alum. He’s looking for reasons to throw his money at things and is not looking for ROI. Repole $ will be there for St. John’s next year no matter what.

NIKE / Fanatcis are looking for ROI down the road. NIKE / Fanatics $ will only be there for Rutgers if we land a top, top recruit (5 star)…which we know is not happening.
This. I live in the city. It's been clear that Repole wants nothing but success for SJU. And those are the alumni you need. I live in Brooklyn and it's obvious that Repole wants to make NYC basketball relevant again and that's all. Those are the alumni that are important.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,342
12,642
113
Cliffs minutes have been cut in half and Hurley poached a 1 year rental!

Jalen miller
Oscar Palmquist
Jayden Jones
Gavin Griffiths
Peter Kiss
Derek Simpson
Wolfe
Dean Reiber

Pikes stacking talent !

Will also look past outside of Ace and Dylan there is not 1 other single player on the current roster who is a Power 4 talent. NOT ONE
Somerville has Power 4 talent which would be enhanced with better coaching
 
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snowboarder

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We had the outside money to bring in two guys that would score 40 pts a game between them without touching our own NIL money.
We literally were given the toughest players too find. All Pike needed to do was bring in complimentary players.
We returned zero inside players with any proven experience. Pike brought in an undersized 4, two flawed wing types(one can't shoot and the other is not a big level athlete) and a scoring guard that needs the ball.
This was an example of incompetent roster construction. Woolfolk would have been better then anyone we had at the 4.
It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Find enough money to compliment Ace and Dylan.
If he cant even do that, then we should forget about any success in the future
 

seansherm

Heisman
Feb 20, 2009
16,133
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lol no

I mean, that’s what it’s supposed to be but most of them are just player salaries with some token “endorsement deal” to make it legal.

There is absolutely a huge distinction between legitimate endorsement deals like Ace/Dylan have and whatever ******** we’re using to pay guys like Acuff for example.
Lol, yes. NIL isn't pay for play, which is what the ******** we mostly see now is. A company signing a kid to an endorsement is real NIL. I don't call pay for play NIL and neither should anyone else.
 

seansherm

Heisman
Feb 20, 2009
16,133
16,785
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NIL is broken into two categories now, endorsement deals independent of a school fund (what Ace and Dylan have) and school-aligned NIL pools.

HUGE difference between the two. The first is aligned solely with the player, with the lucrative deals reserved primarily for only elite NBA-bound players. The second is driven by school initiatives and/or unofficial school NIL pools. This fund is the “hollistic” fund that the school, donors, and fanbase can control to compensate the whole roster and deploy to maintain roster integrity and to bring in key pieces that may not be at the elite NBA level. Essentially, this is the pool RU needed to properly fund to bring in the adequate supporting cast for Ace and Dylan, and we dropped the ball.
Nope, almost anything coming from "NIL pools" is just pay for play, its not NIL, no matter people calling it that.
 
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DHajekRC84

Heisman
Aug 9, 2001
30,708
19,816
0
I'm saying you have to factor their $3 million plus another $1 million from Vegas whether it came from RU or not

Most schools aren't handed $4 million
They're just moving the goal posts as usual. 'St. John's had $4 mm nil and look at them. OK, Rutgers had $4mm and look at them? " oh no, its not the same. Oh no, what about next year. Oh no, we didn't spread it around ...." blah-blah-blah

Always freakin some excuse.
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,972
38,475
113
If we had 4 million for NIL are roster would be completely different. Pike would have had money to get the players needed to put along side Ace and Dillion and right now we would be where ST Johns is at a minimum. We don’t lose Cliff or the other kid to BYU and we get more. It would have made this year special. Our Portal transfers got little to no NIL and that definitely shows on the court. When the most passionate fans of the program refuse to help out financially you get what we have this year.

Dude, stop blaming the fans. At the end of the day, it comes down to guys who don’t care about throwing millions into a hobby (or like Larry Ellison, buying a QB as a present for a girlfriend 1/3rd their age).

The majority of the folks who bleed scarlet and show up on game day are more interested in paying their mortgages and their kids college tuition. And that’s how it should be.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
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We had the outside money to bring in two guys that would score 40 pts a game between them without touching our own NIL money.
We literally were given the toughest players too find. All Pike needed to do was bring in complimentary players.
We returned zero inside players with any proven experience. Pike brought in an undersized 4, two flawed wing types(one can't shoot and the other is not a big level athlete) and a scoring guard that needs the ball.
This was an example of incompetent roster construction. Woolfolk would have been better then anyone we had at the 4.
It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Find enough money to compliment Ace and Dylan.
If he cant even do that, then we should forget about any success in the future
Nailed the situation

i will add Hobbs deserves plenty of blame as well
 

bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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Dude, stop blaming the fans. At the end of the day, it comes down to guys who don’t care about throwing millions into a hobby (or like Larry Ellison, buying a QB as a present for a girlfriend 1/3rd their age).

The majority of the folks who bleed scarlet and show up on game day are more interested in paying their mortgages and their kids college tuition. And that’s how it should be.
Well said
 
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biazza38

Heisman
Nov 18, 2012
14,668
18,088
81
We had the outside money to bring in two guys that would score 40 pts a game between them without touching our own NIL money.
We literally were given the toughest players too find. All Pike needed to do was bring in complimentary players.
We returned zero inside players with any proven experience. Pike brought in an undersized 4, two flawed wing types(one can't shoot and the other is not a big level athlete) and a scoring guard that needs the ball.
This was an example of incompetent roster construction. Woolfolk would have been better then anyone we had at the 4.
It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Find enough money to compliment Ace and Dylan.
If he cant even do that, then we should forget about any success in the future
This this this!!!
I don’t know why people continue to say otherwise
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,972
38,475
113
This this this!!!
I don’t know why people continue to say otherwise

It’s not either/or. We have limited funding which limited the pool of candidates and Pike constructed a roster poorly based on who he did get (we all know he went after big fish - Wolf, Allocco, Bradshaw, and others and struck out).

Pike is a great guy and I couldn’t be prouder to have him as our coach. But he’s going to need to adapt and improve (and probably shuffle the coaching staff) or that seat will be really hot after next season. He had some good luck early on, and some bad breaks the last 2 (now 3) seasons.
 

Nycrusupporter

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Jun 8, 2021
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All schools do this and it’s no different than what St. John’s does with vitamin water . It’s Name Image and Likeness money being paid to RU players. If Pike didn’t F&$ it up we could continue to work with Fanstics Nike and others.

If Pitino was coaching do you think he would convince Nike and Fanatics to support the program in future recruits and portal transfers??
Rutgers has no relationship with Fanatics and a very limited relationship with Nike. Those companies negotiated those deals directly with Ace and Dylan’s reps, and they would have been eager to sign them even if they had decided to team up and go to Sacred Heart or Stonehill. It means nothing for Rutgers and has nothing to do with Rutgers.
 

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
0
Lol, yes. NIL isn't pay for play, which is what the ******** we mostly see now is. A company signing a kid to an endorsement is real NIL. I don't call pay for play NIL and neither should anyone else.

Nope, almost anything coming from "NIL pools" is just pay for play, its not NIL, no matter people calling it that.
Ok, well that's what literally everyone else is talking about so you just sound like you are talking about something completely different because you refuse to use the language that everyone else is using. The vast majority of "NIL" is pay for play, yes. That's pretty important to the thread.
 

RU-Kidding

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11,959
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Rutgers has no relationship with Fanatics and a very limited relationship with Nike. Those companies negotiated those deals directly with Ace and Dylan’s reps, and they would have been eager to sign them even if they had decided to team up and go to Sacred Heart or Stonehill. It means nothing for Rutgers and has nothing to do with Rutgers.
Exactly. Your point will be proved out when Rutgers announces a relatively ****** new apparel arrangement as we have little leverage with these national brands to demand a better deal.

Mens and women’s hoops have **** the bed in regards to making consistent appearances in the NCAA tournament which is a showcase for national brands and an integral part of such apparel negotiations. Football barely holds their own in this regard.
 

seansherm

Heisman
Feb 20, 2009
16,133
16,785
113
Ok, well that's what literally everyone else is talking about so you just sound like you are talking about something completely different because you refuse to use the language that everyone else is using. The vast majority of "NIL" is pay for play, yes. That's pretty important to the thread.
Yeah, I don't like changing the meaning of things
 

cRURah

All-Conference
Nov 13, 2004
4,988
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Rutgers has no relationship with Fanatics and a very limited relationship with Nike. Those companies negotiated those deals directly with Ace and Dylan’s reps, and they would have been eager to sign them even if they had decided to team up and go to Sacred Heart or Stonehill. It means nothing for Rutgers and has nothing to do with Rutgers.
so you believe that both Ace and Dylan, 2 potential generational talents, were so content with their Fanatics and Nike deals that they forgoed the additional $ millions of school specific NIL at schools like Duke, Alabama, Texas and dozens of others, just so they could play for our lightly regarded basketball school coached by someone with minimal success and no track record of developing players for the NBA?
That defies logic and just doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know the real story but that can’t be it.
 
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ru66

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so you believe that both Ace and Dylan, 2 potential generational talents, were so content with their Fanatics and Nike deals that they forgoed the additional $ millions of school specific NIL at schools like Duke, Alabama, Texas and dozens of others, just so they could play for our lightly regarded basketball school coached by someone with minimal success and no track record of developing players for the NBA?
That defies logic and just doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know the real story but that can’t be it.
Dylan' s family has a special relationship with Pikiell. He absolutely chose RU because of Pikiell.
 

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
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Yeah, I don't like changing the meaning of things
My man, the entire world is talking about NIL to mean these thinly disguised pay-for-play arrangements. That's what this thread is about. If you refuse to use that meaning, you are the one changing the meaning of things.
 
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Jun 7, 2001
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Dude, stop blaming the fans. At the end of the day, it comes down to guys who don’t care about throwing millions into a hobby (or like Larry Ellison, buying a QB as a present for a girlfriend 1/3rd their age).

The majority of the folks who bleed scarlet and show up on game day are more interested in paying their mortgages and their kids college tuition. And that’s how it should be.
The product on the court is a function of fan support. When other fan bases are ponying up, and we aren’t, it puts us at a huge disadvantage.
This results in a weak supporting cast and a disappointing season. Next year is looking like more of the same unless people pony up.

You can’t refuse to donate and then complain about the teams performance because then you are part of the problem.

When UConn, a program without a single whale, is running rings around us, thx to fan support, it is unacceptable. Yes they’re struggling this year, but they’ll be back next year.
 

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
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We wish we could "struggle" like UConn is this year. We've had two teams as good as current UConn in a span of like 40 years.
 

CollegeSenior

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Anyone who follows horse racing knows about Mike Repole’s passions for sports, competition and having fun with large groups of friends and family, and his long-time friendship with Pitino. He has a lot of Adam Sandler-like qualities. He pours money into SJU simply because it’s fun for him.
 
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Nycrusupporter

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so you believe that both Ace and Dylan, 2 potential generational talents, were so content with their Fanatics and Nike deals that they forgoed the additional $ millions of school specific NIL at schools like Duke, Alabama, Texas and dozens of others, just so they could play for our lightly regarded basketball school coached by someone with minimal success and no track record of developing players for the NBA?
That defies logic and just doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know the real story but that can’t be it.
I don’t know what Rutgers is paying them, but they both have millions of dollars of endorsement deals that have nothing to do with Rutgers and everything to do with with the fact they are both anticipated to be top 5 NBA draft picks. I also know no money from the collectives went to them, this has been confirmed by Jon Newman. I would guess some of the money from the Vegas tournament went to them, but we probably wouldn’t have considered for the Tournament if they weren’t coming here. When you can generate as much income in real endorsements as these two, you have a great amount of freedom to do whatever you want and go wherever you feel like going.
 

Simce91

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Cliffs minutes have been cut in half and Hurley poached a 1 year rental!

Jalen miller
Oscar Palmquist
Jayden Jones
Gavin Griffiths
Peter Kiss
Derek Simpson
Wolfe
Dean Reiber

Pikes stacking talent !

Will also look past outside of Ace and Dylan there is not 1 other single player on the current roster who is a Power 4 talent. NOT ONE
this is a fair point

these are 'Stony Brook" type of recruits, not P4 recruits

I agree that Sommerville is P4 talent, and Grant may be by his Jr/Sr year.

I think this also falls on his staff, and who the asst's are bringing Pike

But that begs the next question, if not Pike, then who does RU get for their next HC ?
 
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bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
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The product on the court is a function of fan support. When other fan bases are ponying up, and we aren’t, it puts us at a huge disadvantage.
This results in a weak supporting cast and a disappointing season. Next year is looking like more of the same unless people pony up.

You can’t refuse to donate and then complain about the teams performance because then you are part of the problem.

When UConn, a program without a single whale, is running rings around us, thx to fan support, it is unacceptable. Yes they’re struggling this year, but they’ll be back next year.
Villanova has top NIL and sucked for 3 years. Calipari spent a fortune and they are just sneaking in as a 11. Texas nil is getting them a Crown Invitation

Stop blaming the fans
 

S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
14,273
27,457
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Villanova has top NIL and sucked for 3 years. Calipari spent a fortune and they are just sneaking in as a 11. Texas nil is getting them a Crown Invitation

Stop blaming the fans

Of course not every program with a big NIL budget isn’t going to be successful.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be striving for a big NIL budget ($ that is available to spend on all players, not just company $ earmarked for a 5 star recruit).

My goodness.
 

DHajekRC84

Heisman
Aug 9, 2001
30,708
19,816
0
Villanova has top NIL and sucked for 3 years. Calipari spent a fortune and they are just sneaking in as a 11. Texas nil is getting them a Crown Invitation

Stop blaming the fans
If you have premium go read Richie's thread on Prior year player performance this vs. last year (posted last night). Not so much that but this whole debate on Fans NIL contributions (and the $ for Cliff or another center) is discussed there with Richie's insights on it.
 
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S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
14,273
27,457
113
If you have premium go read Richie's thread on Prior year player performance this vs. last year (posted last night). Not so much that but this whole debate on Fans NIL contributions (and the $ for Cliff or another center) is discussed there with Richie's insights on it.

Yes, it’s not a great take by him and further solidifies the cultural issues we are up against here.

Everyone wants results but nobody wants to pay for it.

Regardless of what someone can give it’s a mindset and we just don’t have it across the board at Rutgers relative to many of the other successful Division 1 Atheltic programs.
 
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