Some Football Thoughts

[Seinfeld]

I think most of y’all know by now from the bulk of my posts that I try not to get too high when things are going well, but at the same time, I don’t typically get into talk about nuking the program when things turn south. I just try to stay in that middle lane most of the time. That said, I’ve been as skeptical about Leach as anyone since day 1, and when I feel like it’s time to criticize, I’ve done it. Here’s where my head’s at now about a few things, though

1) Leach’s offense can work in the SEC. We can make all the death by a thousand papercut jokes that we want, and nearly flawless execution may be a requirement. However, just like when I’m playing 5-yard pitch and catch with my son out in the yard, flawless execution is possible when you keep things simple. What we witnessed last weekend was a master class in taking what the defense gives you, and while we may not have the flashy plays like others, it can still be incredibly effective. Not to mention incredibly frustrating for the team on the opposite sideline. The key to me, though, is that you have to have a group of guys willing and able to play their roles which brings me to point 2

2) There are only certain players and personalities that will work in this offense. Hey, I’m guilty as charged about getting on to Leach when he talks about players needing to buy in or about the lack of recruiting stars, but I’m beginning to see why Leach operates the way he does here. When you need a kid that’s willing to sit down in a zone and take a 4 yard pitch rather than trying to make an ESPN highlight, not every personality is going to work here. This offense requires roles and precision assignments, and if a kid isn’t willing to accept that role, the whole system breaks down. Don’t get me wrong, we’ve got to elevate our recruiting in order to achieve the things we all want to achieve, but it’s time for me to start cutting Leach some slack here

3) I was flat out wrong about Will Rogers. He is not a mediocre stop gap QB. He is a very talented SEC QB that will win games in this offense. What he did last Saturday was nothing short of incredible, and what’s really nuts about it is that I could see him doing it all over again at any point this year. He may not have the arm strength of Mahomes or the speed of Dak and Fitz, but he is gradually mastering this offense, and he gives us a chance to win ballgames. That’s about all I can say here.

I don’t know how this will all turn out, and we may even run into a buzzsaw this weekend. This team is far from perfect, and we’re going to play teams with more god given athletic talent. However, I’ve been desperately looking for a glimmer of hope ever since the LSU anomaly last year, and I think I’m finally starting to see it. I think there’s a chance that we could all look up 2-3 years from now and find that MSU actually made the best football hire in the state two seasons ago

 

[ZombieKissinger]

I think there’s a chance that we could all look up 2-3 years from now and find that MSU actually made the best football hire in the state two seasons ago

Fixed

 

[Coast_Dawg]

A couple of thoughts/questions I’ve had about Rogers.

Do the sacks he takes have purpose meaning is it better to not fight and fall on your own to keep from getting flattened like he did when he hurt his shoulder against Bama? The offense has proven it CAN get the yards back.

Also, to the best of memory, didn’t Dak get a lot of grief from critics in his first couple of years with Dallas because he couldn’t throw the deep ball and his average yards per completion were low because he just took what the defense gave him? Was that just to build confidence and get into the flow of the game in the NFL? I’m not intending to compare the talent of Will to Dak but more the mindset of building up his abilities to process the game. Perhaps that’s why Rogers doesn’t push the ball up the field very often. He did late against Memphis when he had to and it looked easy. Perhaps the lack of pushing the ball upfield is more than just “nobody is open”.

 

[msstatelp1]

I think most of y’all know by now from the bulk of my posts that I try not to get too high when things are going well, but at the same time, I don’t typically get into talk about nuking the program when things turn south. I just try to stay in that middle lane most of the time. That said, I’ve been as skeptical about Leach as anyone since day 1, and when I feel like it’s time to criticize, I’ve done it. Here’s where my head’s at now about a few things, though

1) Leach’s offense can work in the SEC. We can make all the death by a thousand papercut jokes that we want, and nearly flawless execution may be a requirement. However, just like when I’m playing 5-yard pitch and catch with my son out in the yard, flawless execution is possible when you keep things simple. What we witnessed last weekend was a master class in taking what the defense gives you, and while we may not have the flashy plays like others, it can still be incredibly effective. Not to mention incredibly frustrating for the team on the opposite sideline. The key to me, though, is that you have to have a group of guys willing and able to play their roles which brings me to point 2

2) There are only certain players and personalities that will work in this offense. Hey, I’m guilty as charged about getting on to Leach when he talks about players needing to buy in or about the lack of recruiting stars, but I’m beginning to see why Leach operates the way he does here. When you need a kid that’s willing to sit down in a zone and take a 4 yard pitch rather than trying to make an ESPN highlight, not every personality is going to work here. This offense requires roles and precision assignments, and if a kid isn’t willing to accept that role, the whole system breaks down. Don’t get me wrong, we’ve got to elevate our recruiting in order to achieve the things we all want to achieve, but it’s time for me to start cutting Leach some slack here

3) I was flat out wrong about Will Rogers. He is not a mediocre stop gap QB. He is a very talented SEC QB that will win games in this offense. What he did last Saturday was nothing short of incredible, and what’s really nuts about it is that I could see him doing it all over again at any point this year. He may not have the arm strength of Mahomes or the speed of Dak and Fitz, but he is gradually mastering this offense, and he gives us a chance to win ballgames. That’s about all I can say here.

I don’t know how this will all turn out, and we may even run into a buzzsaw this weekend. This team is far from perfect, and we’re going to play teams with more god given athletic talent. However, I’ve been desperately looking for a glimmer of hope ever since the LSU anomaly last year, and I think I’m finally starting to see it. I think there’s a chance that we could all look up 2-3 years from now and find that MSU actually made the best football hire in the state two seasons ago

I really think the major difference against KY was Will being willing to trust his instincts. To me he's always done better when put into a hurry-up or a 2 min drill, basically situations where he didn't have time to think himself into trouble. Hope he keeps it up.

 

[Seinfeld]

Your memory about Dak is not wrong. Even though virtually every statistic disputed it, he was constantly being labeled as a master of the dink and dunk

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Your memory about Dak is not wrong. Even though virtually every statistic disputed it, he was constantly being labeled as a master of the dink and dunk

Dak threw the ball down field a lot in his first year both at State and at Dallas. He was not always on target, but he showed he had the arm. He and the receivers had not jelled at that point.

It really is about the reps - even in the NFL.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I'm still a skeptic, but it all depends on what you consider a success for our team. I still think Leach is good for 7 or 8 wins a year, with a possible 10 win season. That's Dan Mullen level of success and nothing to sneer at.

The difference with Leach is his offense gives us a puncher's chance in almost any game. There will be games like Bama where we get blown out, but there will also be surprises like A&M where we hang around and pull out the win. We have been competitive in every game this year except Bama.

The biggest surprise to me has been the defense. I hope Arnett is happy here. If our defense was no good we would have serious problems. (I know that sounds obvious, but imagine if UK had been up 17-0 or worse before our offense got rolling).

I have also started appreciating the game of patience being played out. Our offense has to be very patient to take what the defense allows and just keep moving the ball. But we force the other team to be patient as well, when they start feeling the pressure to take advantage of their possessions.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I am with you on all of it. I wrote earlier that he could do this with confidence. Rogers is now throwing to each level of the zone and the receivers are sitting down in the correct spaces. He is an extremely accurate thrower of the football and that is his strength. Hopefully the Alabama game did prepare him for those games where the Defensive talent level is higher and the windows are much smaller. That is were his lack of a rocket arm hurt a bit. He definitely was not ready for it this year. The only game remaining is Auburn that could have higher level players on Defense and those windows will be smaller again. He will now understand the throws he can and can't make in game like that. There is now no doubt he deserves to be the starting QB.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

The major difference in the Kentucky game is that 7 and 23 made the first man miss on the checkdowns. Most of those were 10 yard gains. Against Bama they were 1 yard gains.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

I really think the major difference against KY was Will being willing to trust his instincts. To me he's always done better when put into a hurry-up or a 2 min drill, basically situations where he didn't have time to think himself into trouble. Hope he keeps it up.

I agree. Against Kentucky it was obvious on several throws that he had diagnosed the defense and threw the ball before the receiver had even broken his route off. Matt Wyatt's play diagnosis (available on YouTube) does a good job of showing a few of those, along with our defensive sets and the atrocious non-calls on the punt return TD.

I'm not a football guru but it's obvious to me that this team has gotten better every week (just completely outclasses by Bama), and I'm excited to see how we do the rest of the year.

 

[TrapGame.sixpack]

Dak threw the ball down field a lot in his first year both at State and at Dallas. He was not always on target, but he showed he had the arm. He and the receivers had not jelled at that point.

It really is about the reps - even in the NFL.

This is something Matt pointed out on his breakdown video. He pointed out two or three plays where Walley or Polk adjusted to the safeties playing high. Will knew they were going to do that. He had the ball in the air before they were fully adjusted and when they stopped and turned they had the ball in their hands getting YAC. That's from a thousand plus reps that these guys are all on the same page.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

I kind of disagree that the execution in this offense has to be flawless. There were multiple times last weekend where we got way behind the chains due to penalties and still ended up converting on long pass plays- that did not happen earlier in the Leach’s tenure. As we get more efficient, the margin for error is getting bigger.

Also, it’s way easier for us to execute in the 5-15 yards range than it is for most teams for a couple of different reasons:

1) We rep our plays WAY more than other teams do because of the way we practice and the lack of plays in the playbook.

2) Our system forces other teams to essentially play 2-3 DBs in the deep third all game, which frees up a ton of space in short to intermediate areas.

 

[Seinfeld]

Yeah, and maybe it’s semantics, but I think the reason that we slightly disagree is that I’ve just come to the realization that penalties on the O line are gonna happen. Then, when faced with 1st and 15, 2nd and 13, etc, we have to be dang near perfect to pick up first downs after that.

Completely agree that our margin of error seems to have increased substantially though

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Yeah, and maybe it’s semantics, but I think the reason that we slightly disagree is that I’ve just come to the realization that penalties on the O line are gonna happen. Then, when faced with 1st and 15, 2nd and 13, etc, we have to be dang near perfect to pick up first downs after that.

Completely agree that our margin of error seems to have increased substantially though

I’d have to see a breakdown across the league and over the course of 5-10 years to really know if our offensive system leads to more OL penalties.

We got called for a bunch of false starts this weekend, but you can’t really put that of the system. Plus UK was doing some Busch league stuff that the refs should have handled. As for holdings, a lot of our holds this year have come on run plays (two TD runs against Kentucky got called back for holding), so it’s hard for me to get on board with the idea that the pass heavy scheme itself leads to more penalties without seeing some data breaking things down.

As far as execution, my favorite thing about this offense is that it forces teams to defend us super conservatively. We have so much more room to operate near the LOS and around the box than we have ever had, which means we can pick up 6-8 yards almost whenever we want. Mullen/Moorhead were never able to get teams out of press man coverage with seven guys in the box, but Leach has been able to do it.

Defenses can have success against this offense, but they have to be better than us on the line of scrimmage, tackle well, and be really patient. If we are executing properly and the defense isn’t able to do those things, there is no stopping it. You could say that about any offensive scheme, but it is especially true with this on.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

It looked to me like Will was putting it on them in stride consistently for the first time this season. No reaching backward making a circus catch while losing momentum, etc.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Our defense only had to be on the field for less than 19 minutes of a 60 minute game against Kentucky, no wonder they looked so nasty at the end of the game. Some of that time difference was the D stopping drives with 4 takeaways and five 3rd down stops, but it also shows how much this offense can play keep-away when the QB and receivers are on the same page.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

One thing that feels entirely different for me in this offense is that in the past, if we started out a drive with a dumb 5 - 10 yard penalty, I started thinking about the criticality of the next drive immediately. I had practically no expectation that we could overcome down and distance. With this offense, except stupid long 3rd downs, it always feels like the drive has a chance to succeed.

 

[kired]

The major difference in the Kentucky game is that 7 and 23 made the first man miss on the checkdowns. Most of those were 10 yard gains. Against Bama they were 1 yard gains.

I know this goes without saying - but it all starts up front with the OL. If we can protect Rogers long enough, something is going to open up.

KY dropped 7 and rushed 4 much of the night. When the OL does well, that front line of the zone either has to drop further & further back with our WRs - or they have to stay close to defend us dumping it off to the RB. If they drop back we can dump it to the RB who now has a large cushion and good chance to make the first guy miss. That's what we saw vs. KY. Marks catches the ball and there's no one within 10 yards of him. He has room to work and make that guy miss. But if we make that throw 2 seconds sooner, he catches it and the LB is only 5 yards away - it's a 1 yard gain.

If those same LBs stay near to line to defend the RB, a WR is going to be open in that zone if given enough time.

Once we move the ball like we did Saturday, they blitz or switch to man defense & Rogers can go straight into attack mode like he did on throws to Ford or Rara.

Two big differences from last year - OL is giving the offense more time to work, and the WRs are finding those weak spots in the zone. But when your OL is outmanned and gives up 6-7 sacks... none of that works.

 

[bulldogbaja]

The difference is the protection. It’s all about the o-line.

 

[dog12]

The major difference in the Kentucky game is that 7 and 23 made the first man miss on the checkdowns. Most of those were 10 yard gains. Against Bama they were 1 yard gains.

Agree.

I'm not sure why (not sure whether it was Will or the playcalling), but both Marks and Johnson were catching the passes in some open space rather than having a defensive player nail them as soon as they made the catch.

I noticed on several plays our RB would delay breaking out into the flat for 2-3 seconds. Thus, when the RB did run into the flat and caught the pass, he had some open space to make a move and gain some yards after the catch.

It was very effective and really helped our offense move the ball.

 

[dog12]

I know this goes without saying - but it all starts up front with the OL. If we can protect Rogers long enough, something is going to open up.

KY dropped 7 and rushed 4 much of the night. When the OL does well, that front line of the zone either has to drop further & further back with our WRs - or they have to stay close to defend us dumping it off to the RB. If they drop back we can dump it to the RB who now has a large cushion and good chance to make the first guy miss. That's what we saw vs. KY. Marks catches the ball and there's no one within 10 yards of him. He has room to work and make that guy miss. But if we make that throw 2 seconds sooner, he catches it and the LB is only 5 yards away - it's a 1 yard gain.

If those same LBs stay near to line to defend the RB, a WR is going to be open in that zone if given enough time.

Once we move the ball like we did Saturday, they blitz or switch to man defense & Rogers can go straight into attack mode like he did on throws to Ford or Rara.

Two big differences from last year - OL is giving the offense more time to work, and the WRs are finding those weak spots in the zone. But when your OL is outmanned and gives up 6-7 sacks... none of that works.

I really like Rara Thomas (WR #84). He does a good job of shielding off the DB with his body while making the catch.

If he has a big size advantage against the DBs, then we should just send him straight down the field, throw it to him with sufficient arch and let him go catch it.

This would also work near the goaline. Isolate Rara to one side and throw the fade to him if he has a size advantage over the defender. Just make sure he's not too close to the sideline, so he has room to operate.

 

[GloryDawg]

A couple of thoughts/questions I’ve had about Rogers.

Do the sacks he takes have purpose meaning is it better to not fight and fall on your own to keep from getting flattened like he did when he hurt his shoulder against Bama? The offense has proven it CAN get the yards back.

Also, to the best of memory, didn’t Dak get a lot of grief from critics in his first couple of years with Dallas because he couldn’t throw the deep ball and his average yards per completion were low because he just took what the defense gave him? Was that just to build confidence and get into the flow of the game in the NFL? I’m not intending to compare the talent of Will to Dak but more the mindset of building up his abilities to process the game. Perhaps that’s why Rogers doesn’t push the ball up the field very often. He did late against Memphis when he had to and it looked easy. Perhaps the lack of pushing the ball upfield is more than just “nobody is open”.

I keep in mind that when a QB throws 50 plus times a game he is going to have Interceptions and Sacks. I think he has done a really good job on the interceptions. I also think he is taking his time to find the right guy sometimes and that's when he get's sacked.