So is Green gone then?

[isonator35]

I thought Hagans was incase Green left? So was Hagans for Shai and Maxey is incase Green leaves?

 

[John Henry]

Some of our fans refuse to question any decision or Cal.

It’s also weird that so many of them think guys can’t improve from freshmen to junior year...probably since it’s so rare to happen here, maybe that forgot what juniors and seniors are like if they’re not in-state kids.

I agree. Even if Green is not a starter next year he would be a very valuable reserve. What if one of our "elite freshmen" comes up with an injury. Wouldn't it be nice to have a Quade Green step in. If Green stays until his junior or senior year what is wrong with that? Nothing is wrong with it as he will be a valuable reserve and contribute. Who knows he might leave with a ring.

 

[irishcat1965]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't want Green to come back. Nothing wrong with having solid, 4 yr guys.

I don’t think any poster doesn’t want him back. The question is, does Green see the big picture? I think he does and comes back.

 

[Aike]

Cal basically relegated him to backup shooting guard this year and has recruited over him twice already and you think Cal is going to start him at PG?

Now you’re changing the discussion.

 

[morgousky]

Brian, you're referencing recruits from the class of '13 (Randle) and '14 (Towns), classes where Cal brought in immediate impact players of the highest level (as in, potential 1st Team All-Americans).

My question to you is this: do you think that type of recruiting has been featured in the last few classes? I'd make the case that it hasn't been, although obviously outstanding.

That being the case, until UK starts to recruit the John Wall/Anthony Davis-level players again (hasn't been the case in the '18, '17, '16, '15 classes), a guy like Green becomes very important because his level of play is not disproportionately different than an incoming guy like Hagans or Quickley.

Cal's best teams from November through March (2010, 2012, 2015, 2017) have also been his only teams to exceed 30 wins in a season. Let us not overlook what each of those teams had, outside of multiple elite freshmen: rotation veterans.

*Patterson/Miller/Liggins in 2010
*Miller/Lamb/Jones in 2012
*WCS/twins in 2015
* Briscoe/ Hawkins/Willis in 2017


Veterans matter. Losing Green would be a critical loss because it would once again force a collection of non-transcendent freshmen to carry the load. The shifting narratives seem to moving back toward a "it's fine" outlook because of some recent additions to the roster this week. It's only "fine" (authentically competing for titles) if UK either blends its roster with veterans or adds transcendent players. There is no other equation that has historically been proven to work - not in terms of actually competing from start to finish for a nation title.

I have said this for 3 years now and we just don't learn. If Cal hits a 5 year final four drought with the same methods people will probably start to actually discuss these issues instead of living in a bubble of denial.

Signing fringe NBA guys for one year will not produce '12 results and losing guys like Green isn't something to gloss over.

I think in time the board will see it, unfortunately. Would love to be wrong. The last 3 champions tell the story.

 

[Bluegrassking]

Maxey is a capable shooter. With his explosiveness and ability to get in the lane, defenders are forced to pick their poison.

Maxey looks more than just a capable shooter. Dude is just flinging stuff at the wall, I think he later immediately flipped to Maxey is too selfish with his shooting.

If I had to pick one newcomer based off what I've seen I'd take Maxey over anyone, especially as a 2. That includes the heresy that I'd take him over Herro.
I covet both but Maxey really impresses me based on what little I've seen. If he was a little taller then I wouldn't bat an eye about it either, as is I might bat but still pull the trigger.

 

[jrpross_rivals]

That's the kind of mindset (shared by Duke) that leads to zero experience when you need it most. If you're always chasing the next shiny recruit, unless they're a rare talent you're missing out on the Sophomore - Senior seasons where those non-elite players add the most value.

Just makes no sense to take the worst season a recruit will have (their first year) and then have them hit the road, only to do the exact same thing with the next batch.

You got it backwards there bud. Cal isn’t pushing Green out so he can chase the next recruit. If Green leaves I GUARANTEE it isn’t because Cal pushed him out. He’s just covering his bases because it looks like he may have to. The problem isn’t with Cal, it’s with the players that get in their head what they think is going to happen and when it doesn’t go exactly their way, they aren’t happy and take off. Poole & Matthews did the same thing.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I have said this for 3 years now and we just don't learn. If Cal hits a 5 year final four drought with the same methods people will probably start to actually discuss these issues instead of living in a bubble of denial.

Signing fringe NBA guys for one year will not produce '12 results and losing guys like Green isn't something to gloss over.

I think in time the board will see it, unfortunately. Would love to be wrong. The last 3 champions tell the story.

I think it's possible to win it all with 5 freshmen and marginal production from returning players, but very, very difficult and unlikely at best. I think you need at least 2 players returning who give you significant contribution, combined with a few Top 10 players. If we keep PJ, Vanderbilt, and either Green or Gabriel, I think we can be optimistic.

 

[UKSlim]

Cal is done with short guards. Saying that, I hope Quade stays.

 

[Bluegrassking]

Ok.

This thread is telling. All of a sudden Quade is a backup 4 year nobody with no athleticism and needed to be recruited over and has been done deal.

I guess we won't be hearing anything else from him. We shall see.

Everyone needs to be "recruited over" and be challenged.

Everyone needs to have the bench as a realistic option.

Everyone needs someone that can step into their role if the need arises.

If you are Michael Jordan then you don't give a damn if even Clyde Drexler is brought in as long as your contract is straight.

Coddling weakens everyone involved. It is toxic to any kind of team.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Jr/Sr Quade playing with heart beats the brakes off Tyler. Don’t believe me, see Darius Miller, Richie Farmer, Travis Ford. You are drinking the Cal coolaide and losing sight of the goal.

Nah. I'm in the 4 year guys camp just posting what I see going on. High level recruits are just not going to be around 4 years.

I'm also in the sign an occasional Kentucky kid camp. They seem to be the only ones who might stick it out and contribute as 4 year players.

And I don't want to rag on Quade, but I don't see him as a senior as good as soph Ulis, not even close.

 

[JC43]

Quade sealed his future taking an airball 3 against KState with 12 ticks on the clock, don't think Cal wanted that shot, planned that shot, or even suggested that shot I the huddle. It was the wrong shot in any situation imaginable when having posession down 2, with 18 secs left in your season. Yes, Cal is correct to get the best available players. I love Green, but those saying high basketball IQ, his actions late game doesn't show it.

 

[Born and Raised Big Blue]

Here is my biggest thing on Quade. Do we think him coming back next year will lead us to a national championship in his future at UK? Whether it be his junior year or possibly senior year. Because if we get Maxey, I think Quade becomes a key player his junior year. But will he wait to get those max minutes.

 

[brianpoe]

You could see that Green didn’t like Cal in his face. It was very obvious when I watched in Boise. I called it and I think Richards is also at risk.

You cant suck anymore than you have this season.

 

[Born and Raised Big Blue]

You cant suck anymore than you have this season.

Brian, can you check on Richards to see if he is returning or not. I cannot remember for the life of me if that was announced or not. He is probably leaving though. Hates getting yelled at.

 

[brianpoe]

Brian, you're referencing recruits from the class of '13 (Randle) and '14 (Towns), classes where Cal brought in immediate impact players of the highest level (as in, potential 1st Team All-Americans).

My question to you is this: do you think that type of recruiting has been featured in the last few classes? I'd make the case that it hasn't been, although obviously outstanding.

That being the case, until UK starts to recruit the John Wall/Anthony Davis-level players again (hasn't been the case in the '18, '17, '16, '15 classes), a guy like Green becomes very important because his level of play is not disproportionately different than an incoming guy like Hagans or Quickley.

Cal's best teams from November through March (2010, 2012, 2015, 2017) have also been his only teams to exceed 30 wins in a season. Let us not overlook what each of those teams had, outside of multiple elite freshmen: rotation veterans.

*Patterson/Miller/Liggins in 2010
*Miller/Lamb/Jones in 2012
*WCS/twins in 2015
* Briscoe/ Hawkins/Willis in 2017


Veterans matter. Losing Green would be a critical loss because it would once again force a collection of non-transcendent freshmen to carry the load in the backcourt. The shifting narratives seem to moving back toward a "it's fine" outlook because of some recent additions to the roster this week. It's only "fine" (authentically competing for titles) if UK either blends its roster with veterans or adds transcendent players. There is no other equation that has historically been proven to work - not in terms of actually competing from start to finish for a nation title.

I definitely do not think we have been pulling in those types of players lately.

But Hagans and Maxey are very very good, better than this year's group so we are hopefully getting back to that point.

Include Wiseman and who knows else and maybe Cal is getting the swag back.

But in world do you NOT recruit the best players you can, especially ones that may be better than what you have just so current players dont get pissy and transfer out.

This line of thinking is pathetically awful in my opinion.

 

[brianpoe]

Some of our fans refuse to question any decision or Cal.

It’s also weird that so many of them think guys can’t improve from freshmen to junior year...probably since it’s so rare to happen here, maybe that forgot what juniors and seniors are like if they’re not in-state kids.

This is simply not true. And I hate when people make these stupid blanket comments.

I definitley believe players improve each year.

I have not forgotten what Juniors or Seniors are like.


This is an insane and idiotic idea that we shouldnt recruit the best players because we may hurt the feelings of those already on the team and they may get mad and transfer out.

You guys need to go root for a basketball league where every player gets a trophy.

I love Quade, i hope he stays. we are much better with a seasoned Green and always much better with as much experience as possible.

But you dont refuse to recruit the best you can every season. Current players need to improve and earn their spots each and every season.

 

[Bluegrassking]

I agree. Even if Green is not a starter next year he would be a very valuable reserve. What if one of our "elite freshmen" comes up with an injury. Wouldn't it be nice to have a Quade Green step in. If Green stays until his junior or senior year what is wrong with that? Nothing is wrong with it as he will be a valuable reserve and contribute. Who knows he might leave with a ring.

No one has an issue with Green being on the team or even having a fairly significant role. If he is the best option then I've seen no one objecting him taking what he earns and starting.

The actual debate is about essentially clearing the path for Quade and treading carefully in recruiting as to not give him any reason to consider a move.

Randomly, some seem to be focused to build the team around the kid but it isn't so much about him as the idea of an upperclassman guard.
I guess they see him as occupying the nexus between talent and virtually no shot at going pro or something so if we have a serviceable junior or senior guard then magically championships occur.

I only think he could definitely help too but what those that are all about him don't really seem to get is they aren't on the same page as Quade either. He isn't about being their senior anchor either, he sees himself as a pro. Dude is all up in the rotation, he wasn't buried at all. If he is considering a transfer it is because is scrambling to maintain that position.

Personally, I think folks are possibly mixing up the chicken and the egg anyway.
IF he is considering a move it isn't so much about the recruits as his established usage and that he might be cast into a role that isn't NBA prospect friendly for him.

Cal isn't going to purposely risk getting caught short in hopes of appeasing him and I would be livid with him if he did.

It's like some are insisting on a richer man's version of the Saul Smith situation with Green now.

 

[PapawBuddha]

And as much as I love Ulis, UK went out in the second round the year he was a sophomore.

Which the reason they went out wasn't as much Ulis but they had no inside game. If they had an inside presence, they could have gone much further. I dare say put Ulis on this team they would have gone further too!!

 

[brianpoe]

Brian, can you check on Richards to see if he is returning or not. I cannot remember for the life of me if that was announced or not. He is probably leaving though. Hates getting yelled at.

LOL... definitley coming back.

 

[brianpoe]

Have you ever managed a team? Did you hire over your direct reports every year? Tell me how that went.

Name a business that every year your potential replacement is hired, and I'll show you a dysfunctional business.a dumb post.

Guys like Cal and K pretty much get to pick their rosters. If they can't get by without a top 10 player at every position, they're doing a pretty ****** job of building a team and making it more than just individual talent.

This is a dumb post.

Basketball is not a company.

Have I ever managed a team? Um yeah... owned my first company in 1994. "Managed" over 1000 employees since then.


Employees are an entirely different aspect than athletes.

In fact, this is so dumb I'm not going to go into the differences.


Why does every professional sport have a draft?

Again, I cant believe I have to explain this to an adult. So I wont.


I'll say this..

Every athletic team, especially those that only have players for 1-4 years will and should always maximize their talents each and every year.

 

[treyforuk_anon]

PJ and JV are the 2 we need to keep for experience and productivity. Gabriel helps as well.

I like Green and think he'd be a gritty, solid, Jr and Sr. However, it would take a huge leap for him to be THE guy that can carry a team do to his measurables. My personal preference is to take your chance with the elite talent and if Green doesn't want to stay and battle then it's on him. But we shouldn't pass up the Fox, Colin Sexton, Rose type potential in hopes Green takes the next step.

Maxey and Hagans are both NBA guards; Green likely isn't or is on the fringe even after 3-4 years. There aren't a lot of 6', average athleticism guards at the next level.

Why should we worry about the next level? We have had several GOOD college guards to lead us. I am not worried about their next level. Anybody telling me I'm nuts need to look no further than our last 3 championships.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I agree. Hopefully he sees the big picture. But I disagree you need a veteran point guard to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament.
2010- freshman Elite 8
2011- freshman final four
2012- freshman NCAA title
2013- sophomore NIT
2014- freshman NCAA title game
2015- sophomore final four
2016- sophomore second round
2017- freshman Elite 8
2018- freshman Sweet 16

The original statement was about leading a championship team and Green specifically.

 

[EliteBlue]

Why should we worry about the next level? We have had several GOOD college guards to lead us. I am not worried about their next level. Anybody telling me I'm nuts need to look no further than our last 3 championships.

Would you pass on John Wall, Fox, Rose type College players because it may upset an average to solid college guard? Y'all are acting like Green doesn't have the option to stay. That isn't accurate. Whatever happens is his decision. He just had to decide if he is willing to compete with NBA talent for minutes.

Besides, It isn't about their production at the next level but guys in that category 9 out of 10 produce at a high level in college as well.

 

[treyforuk_anon]

Would you pass on John Wall, Fox, Rose type College players because it may upset an average to solid college guard? Y'all are acting like Green doesn't have the option to stay. That isn't accurate. Whatever happens is his decision. He just had to decide if he is willing to compete with NBA talent for minutes.

Besides, It isn't about their production at the next level but guys in that category 9 out of 10 produce at a high level in college as well.

Will they win us a championship their one and done year?????No?

 

[Cowboys&Wildcats]

Will they win us a championship their one and done year?????No?

Will Green win us a championship his Jr. or if he stays Sr. season???? No?

 

[CatColumbia]

I don’t think any poster doesn’t want him back. The question is, does Green see the big picture? I think he does and comes back.

What’s ridiculous to me is why is this even in consideration after one year of college? Man the landscape has changed so quickly and it has been difficult for me to adjust and accept.

 

[treyforuk_anon]

Will Green win us a championship his Jr. or if he stays Sr. season???? No?

I feel the odds increase when you have a veteran point guard to stabilise the team during crunch time. How many rings have we won with one and doners, compared to veteran points?

 

[Cowboys&Wildcats]

I feel the odds increase when you have a veteran point guard to stabilise the team during crunch time. How many rings have we won with one and doners, compared to veteran points?

The last championship team was ran by a Freshman who got better at the end of the season. In 2014, we got to the championship game with all Freshmen. Had Calipari started Ulis and Booker as freshman, we may have one it that year. In 2016, we were a buzzer beater away from getting to the Final Four with a freshmen led backcourt. Don't tell me that you can't get it done with freshmen at the guard position.

 

[treyforuk_anon]

The last championship team was ran by a Freshman who got better at the end of the season. In 2014, we got to the championship game with all Freshmen. Had Calipari started Ulis and Booker as freshman, we may have one it that year. In 2016, we were a buzzer beater away from getting to the Final Four with a freshmen led backcourt. Don't tell me that you can't get it done with freshmen at the guard position.

History is still on my side.

 

[CatColumbia]

I feel the odds increase when you have a veteran point guard to stabilise the team during crunch time. How many rings have we won with one and doners, compared to veteran points?

In the one and done era only UK and Duke has done it. Both had experienced players that were key in winning (Miller, Jones, Lamb, Cook, Matt Jones, etc.)

 

[EliteBlue]

Will they win us a championship their one and done year?????No?

They very well could. In a one and done tournament it just takes an off night.

Fox likely would have last year if not for the biggest screw job in recent tournament history.

2010 lost 3 games all year. A perfect storm happened and they went home. Give me a <5 loss team entering the tournament and I'll take my chances.

2011,2014 and Freshman lead us to a final four and then the championship game. If a PG can lead a team to a FF then they are just as capable of leading you to a title. It's a toss up for anyone at that point.

Oh and....Teague says hello.

We have had a FR PG 6 years. We made the final four 3 out of 6 and won the title 1 out of 6. With 2010 and 2017 being title caliber teams that ran into A historical off night and Higgins respectively.

We had a redshirt Sophomore lead us to the NIT.

Ulis (who was phenomenal) as a Sophomore = rd of 32

So 2 of the 3 years we haven't had a FR running point = our 2 worst tournament performances. Correlation not causation.

But in a very small sample size we have already had a freshman lead us to a title and are 50% to the final four and a bad game and corruption away from 5 for 6 as Thise were 2 of our better teams.

How many non freshman point guards failed to lead their team to a final four or national title over the last 9 years? That % is much lower than the 50% we are sitting at.

Give me the talent and let the pieces fall where they may. Talent wins more often than not

 

[treyforuk_anon]

They very well could. In a one and done tournament it just takes an off night.

Fox likely would have last year if not for the biggest screw job in recent tournament history.

2010 lost 3 games all year. A perfect storm happened and they went home. Give me a <5 loss team entering the tournament and I'll take my chances.

2011,2014 and Freshman lead us to a final four and then the championship game. If a PG can lead a team to a FF then they are just as capable of leading you to a title. It's a toss up for anyone at that point.

Oh and....Teague says hello.

We have had a FR PG 6 years. We made the final four 3 out of 6 and won the title 1 out of 6. With 2010 and 2017 being title caliber teams that ran into A historical off night and Higgins respectively.

We had a redshirt Sophomore lead us to the NIT.

Ulis (who was phenomenal) as a Sophomore = rd of 32

So 2 of the 3 years we haven't had a FR running point = our 2 worst tournament performances. Correlation not causation.

But in a very small sample size we have already had a freshman lead us to a title and are 50% to the final four and a bad game and corruption away from 5 for 6 as Thise were 2 of our better teams.

How many non freshman point guards failed to lead their team to a final four or national title over the last 9 years? That % is much lower than the 50% we are sitting at.

Give me the talent and let the pieces fall where they may. Talent wins more often than not

Well he has time to say hello. Cal mystic got.him drafted. Do you really believe he was ready?

 

[irishcat1965]

What’s ridiculous to me is why is this even in consideration after one year of college? Man the landscape has changed so quickly and it has been difficult for me to adjust and accept.

If you remember I quoted you in another post about the moronic change in the NCAA transfer rule in which college basketball will cease to exist as we know it. So I’m going to respectfully ask you- do you want the roster influx because the players are going pro or do you want it in flux because players are going to other schools? I prefer getting the most talented players who look to be going pro after a year.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

I have said this for 3 years now and we just don't learn. If Cal hits a 5 year final four drought with the same methods people will probably start to actually discuss these issues instead of living in a bubble of denial.

Signing fringe NBA guys for one year will not produce '12 results and losing guys like Green isn't something to gloss over.

I think in time the board will see it, unfortunately. Would love to be wrong. The last 3 champions tell the story.

I think that’s a good point. I do believe 2017 should not be included because the team did what it took to make the final four but were royally screwed.

 

[CatfanMike47]

Why should we worry about the next level? We have had several GOOD college guards to lead us. I am not worried about their next level. Anybody telling me I'm nuts need to look no further than our last 3 championships.

I mean you no disrespect but when our the fans going to get it in their heads. Players aren’t here for them they are here to get to the next level. That’s at most major power 5 schools. This generation is about get paid. If the fans want four year players so bad why did they run off Tubby?

 

[treyforuk_anon]

I mean you no disrespect but when our the fans going to get it in their heads. Players aren’t here for them they are here to get to the next level. That’s at most major power 5 schools. This generation is about get paid. If the fans want four year players so bad why did they run off Tubby?

Is that as far back as you can Go? Epps and Turner did pretty good for us. We'e either one and done candiates? We need elites...but also stabilizers. Why does everything have to be black or white? Hot or cold?

 

[EliteBlue]

Well he has time to say hello. Cal mystic got.him drafted. Do you really believe he was ready?

Ah deflecting...

The question was if a FR could lead us to a title.

And you have already stated, "why do we care what they do at the next level?"

No. Teague wasn't ready but he left while the iron was hot and didn't have the "come back to win a championship" weight on his shoulders. Ultimately he didn't want to be the only one of his class to not leave. It wasn't the right decision but Cal can't force them to stay. Unless you prefer we start paying them under the table.

 

[CatColumbia]

If you remember I quoted you in another post about the moronic change in the NCAA transfer rule in which college basketball will cease to exist as we know it. So I’m going to respectfully ask you- do you want the roster influx because the players are going pro or do you want it in flux because players are going to other schools? I prefer getting the most talented players who look to be going pro after a year.

It depends, if you are getting the John Wall type of one and done's, yes I would take those guys no doubt. If you are getting the Diallo's and the Washington's of the world, I'd honestly rather take a proven player in the college ranks. And thanks for "respectfully" asking me. Not sure why you would have to do it any differently.

 

[CatfanMike47]

Is that as far back as you can Go? Epps and Turner did pretty good for us. We'e either one and done candiates? We need elites...but also stabilizers. Why does everything have to be black or white? Hot or cold?

Times have change sorry you can’t see that! The future is upon us!