So how do you get experience?

[SBKY]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

 

[AGEE11]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

MSU recruits similar to what we do with sore results (from a recruit rating standpoint).

Problem is, at UK if you stay more than one year, you are considered a failure. Also, there is a top player coming in at your spot who may take it (see Quade).

There is so much pressure on them to go pro after a year.

Really hope what PJ did this year changes kids minds.

 

[MarkPftw]

We had a 5th year Senior, 2 Sweet 16 experienced Sophomore, etc...we had more than enough experience in the front court this season but not at the most important position..PG/back court.

 

[Pewee Cat]

Change the philosophy, Cats 1st, pros maybe later.

 

[SpamburgerHamburger_rivals101482]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

You recruit guys that aren't one and done. If those "experienced" players could have gone to the league they would be. They've gotten 3 or 4 years more to get better. Are you willing to have a couple mediocre years to let less talented players develop? Cal recruits the best players available. There isn't a right answer or fix.

 

[BlueBomb]

We don't have traditional experience in part because Cal created a monster that continually must be fed. He preached player-first for so long that now players feel it's their right to be able to go pro after one year. That's all good and fine, when you're bringing in Cuz, Wall, Davis, Townes, etc. But now we bring in the #25 player and he STILL expects to go pro.

Cal's strategy worked so well that he can't get past it. And as of now, he's yet to prove he can effectively switch gears and change the way he does business.

 

[KHALL3]

The thing you have to remember when considering the one and done vs. experience is that Cal has us in the hunt every year. These experienced teams are usually relevant every five, ten, or fifteen years. Take this year for example, when is the last time any of these teams competed in a final four? Auburn and Texas Tech have never been to a final four. Kentucky fans just would not tolerate that.

 

[sluggercatfan]

We don't have traditional experience in part because Cal created a monster that continually must be fed. He preached player-first for so long that now players feel it's their right to be able to go pro after one year. That's all good and fine, when you're bringing in Cuz, Wall, Davis, Townes, etc. But now we bring in the #25 player and he STILL expects to go pro.

Cal strategy worked so well that he can't get past it. And as of now, he's yet to prove he can effectively switch gears and change the way he does business.

Cal has created a monster that is now eating him because he is no longer getting the best of the best.

 

[Trinity45]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

Well let's see, how about using all your scholarships and using them on a few players who will stay, how about not burning a scholarship on your son when you make 9 mil per year and giving that to a player who may stay. I hate to say it but Cal loves this NBA thing to the determent of the success of UK overall.

 

[SBKY]

We had a 5th year Senior, 2 Sweet 16 experienced Sophomore, etc...we had more than enough experience in the front court this season but not at the most important position..PG/back court.

Yes but our senior had never played with the rest of the team. A major part of having upper class-man is that they have played together for years.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Player development and that has become a major issue.

 

[CowCollege94]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

I would say it's a change in philosophy. It means bypassing a few superstar studs in favor of guys a tier down that you can develop. Or at least mixing it up. Instead of a line up of all one and done prospects, you grab one or two of those guys and the rest are 2-3 year players.

 

[Blueaz]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

Simple
You don’t only recruit OAD type players. You have a few down seasons (which will go over like a fart in church on these two boards).
And you build a team.
We are too spoiled for that if we went two years in a row being low end top 25 and our first weekend.... can you imagine our fans?

 

[Blueaz]

We had a 5th year Senior, 2 Sweet 16 experienced Sophomore, etc...we had more than enough experience in the front court this season but not at the most important position..PG/back court.

That Senior was not with team but one year
That senior never played in one NCAAT game
1 sophomore hardly played as frosh.
And when (never) is a sophomore considered as an upperclassman.

 

[Burly]

All you can ask for is to be in hunt
With 20 seconds left we had two point blank shots blocked - then our senior short armed a running layup

Inches from a Final Four - we got beat because Cal failed to recruit a Top Point Guard - Hagans was not and never be a elite point guard - you cannot play 4 on 5 at this level. The level of mis-evaluation on this kid was staggering
He is a football athlete playing hoops

Go find a Mooney like Tx Tech did - someone that can run a team and knock down wide open shots

Work that waiver wire or start recruiting Europe- we need experience and savy at the point

 

[MarkPftw]

Yes but our senior had never played with the rest of the team. A major part of having upper class-man is that they have played together for years.

That Senior was not with team but one year
That senior never played in one NCAAT game
1 sophomore hardly played as frosh.
And when (never) is a sophomore considered as an upperclassman.

Who the hell said anything about upperclassmen ? The op asked how do you get "experience"..well, we had it just not at enough positions..the most important being PG.

 

[Blueaz]

Who the hell said anything about upperclassmen ? The op asked how do you get "experience"..well, we had it just not at enough positions..the most important being PG.

Read my post again.
THAT TEAM was not experienced from just Travis and PJ... that is delusional.

 

[MarkPftw]

Read my post again.
THAT TEAM was not experienced from just Travis and PJ... that is delusional.

I never said that the entire team was experienced, pal. In fact, I just said that the front court was and they were for the most part. I mean, I guess it depends on which type of experience you're talking about. PJ Washington and to a lesser extent Nick Richards had NCAA Tournament Sweet 16 experience and experience of a tough 26-11 season last year. Some Juniors and Seniors never even get to to experience an NCAA Tournament let alone the Sweet 16. Reid Travis had 5th year Senior type of experience even if it was 4 years at Stanford. Two diffetent types of "experience" but experience nonetheless.

Read MY post again, man. Please don't put words in my mouth like the Coach Cal obsessed nut jobs on this site love to do..they've been doing that to me and some others since yesterday. I don't want/need anymore of it. It's annoying as hell.

 

[MarkPftw]

Man, we got got some freaking dickheads on this site. Most of which are Coach Cal nut huggers, I've noticed. Not you, op..but they're on here. Well, I got news for you guys..y'all are just as freaking nuts as some of the people that want him fired..just in a completely different way. Putting words in people's mouths, blowing **** way out of proportion, acting like an obsessed nut case any time someone says the least little thing about Coach Cal that y'all don't like, acting like someone wants him fired because someone calls out ******** like yesterday and the 2nd half vs. Houston, etc etc...Looney tunes.

 

[hof2015]

Cal seems to only recruit McDonald's All-Americans and 5 star recruits. Obviously, there are plenty of talented kids out there that would stay and compete for more than a year. Just in the SEC, you have Tennessee, Auburn, LSU who have flourished lately with second-tier recruits who are not one and dones. Perennial powers like Va., Michigan State, Gonzaga, NC, etc. don't seem to have as much turnover of personel as UK. They don't sacrifice wins while retaining some upper class experience. Cal is getting out-hustled and out coached by programs who are doing more with a lot less. Time to change his MO, imo.

 

[Urolex]

The transition from this year to next year is the PERFECT chance to get experience. Hagans, Herro, (and possibly even Johnson) would be staying if they were at any other school. Cal should tell these guys to hang out 1 more year to improve. Any other coach and it would almost be a given that they were staying.

I know we're players-first, but are we really doing guys any favors by shuffling them off to a near certain G league career in many cases?

 

[KyFaninNC]

Name ONE player Cal has recruited the last five years that stayed here more than 2 years. Anybody. Bueller,Bueller. They either go to G league or transfer. This is what is keeping us from more FF and nattys. No experience. A sophmore is not the experience I am referring to, either.

 

[fredmanthecatfan]

Or.........had we landed Zion to go with the guys we did get.

 

[CB3UK]

Man, we got got some freaking dickheads on this site. Most of which are Coach Cal nut huggers, I've noticed. Not you, op..but they're on here. Well, I got news for you guys..y'all are just as freaking nuts as some of the people that want him fired..just in a completely different way. Putting words in people's mouths, blowing **** way out of proportion, acting like an obsessed nut case any time someone says the least little thing about Coach Cal that y'all don't like, acting like someone wants him fired because someone calls out ******** like yesterday and the 2nd half vs. Houston, etc etc...Looney tunes.

I'll respond once or twice but o ce its clear they are just being irrational and just want to argue, I quit responding, or with the worst, just put them on ignore.

We have insufferable fans who want him fired and insufferable fans who wear blinders.

 

[AJ20]

Player development and that has become a major issue.

This is idiotic.....

Did you happen to see PJ Washington from last year to this year? Happen to see Shai Gilgeous-Alexander from beginning to end last year? Just to name a few from the last two years.

There are PLENTY more examples from Cal's 10 years at Kentucky.

 

[AJ20]

Cal seems to only recruit McDonald's All-Americans and 5 star recruits. Obviously, there are plenty of talented kids out there that would stay and compete for more than a year. Just in the SEC, you have Tennessee, Auburn, LSU who have flourished lately with second-tier recruits who are not one and dones. Perennial powers like Va., Michigan State, Gonzaga, NC, etc. don't seem to have as much turnover of personel as UK. They don't sacrifice wins while retaining some upper class experience. Cal is getting out-hustled and out coached by programs who are doing more with a lot less. Time to change his MO, imo.

LOL.... They don't sacrifice wins?? You're crazy... LSU's sweet 16 this year was the best season they've had since Big Baby Davis. Tennessee has never been to a final four... back to back sweet 16's... Auburn lost by 30 in the second round last year and got hot and made their first final four ever this year..

You think those results would be okay at Kentucky? We're going ludicrous over 7 Elite 8's in 10 years (4 final fours and a title). DREAM ON

UVA prior to this year had been a 1 seed 4 times and won 7 total games, Michigan State just went to one final four in 10 years, Gonzaga has 3 elite 8's in 5 years (no titles). UNC has 1 title in the same time frame we have 1 title...

What do you people want??

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

I loved it when Tyler Ulis signed with UK. Finally, I thot, a kid who's a baller who will stay all 4 years.

But no, had to run him off to make room for Fox, and who wouldn't want Fox. But was one year of Fox better than 2 more years of Ulis?

And don't give me the BS about getting to the NBA as soon as possible. Ulis's NBA career/money would have been the same no matter when he left.

The answer is to recruit basketball skills (not pro potential), especially shooting and quickness. Of course there will be some overlap but if you only recruit potential that's going to be realized post-UK you'll wind up exactly where the Cats are today. At home.

 

[AJ20]

I loved it when Tyler Ulis signed with UK. Finally, I thot, a kid who's a baller who will stay all 4 years.

But no, had to run him off to make room for Fox, and who wouldn't want Fox. But was one year of Fox better than 2 more years of Ulis?

And don't give me the BS about getting to the NBA as soon as possible. Ulis's NBA career/money would have been the same no matter when he left.

The answer is to recruit basketball skills (not pro potential), especially shooting and quickness. Of course there will be some overlap but if you only recruit potential that's going to be realized post-UK you'll wind up exactly where the Cats are today. At home.

Calipari didn't force Tyler Ulis to leave Kentucky.... He was 5'9 160 (generous) and had a chance to get paid to play in the NBA after an All-American season. Signing De'Aaron Fox didn't make Tyler Ulis leave Kentucky. Tyler Ulis was going to start no matter who was alongside him. Saying his money would have been the same is just incorrect. The older you get, the less time you have to make money playing professionally. Who are we to tell a kid when to get paid if given the opportunity?

Would you have liked for Calipari to have locked Ulis in a room and not let him gone pro?

 

[Mr Schwump]

This is idiotic.....

Did you happen to see PJ Washington from last year to this year? Happen to see Shai Gilgeous-Alexander from beginning to end last year? Just to name a few from the last two years.

There are PLENTY more examples from Cal's 10 years at Kentucky.

I see PJW still missing key FTs. And I see SGA and raise you Hagans. From Lee and Skai to Richards and EJM...on and on to name a few. But it's OK, they'll be playing in BFE soon enough.

 

[Cats192]

Player development and that has become a major issue.

Except Devin Booker wasn't a 1 and done and is now in the NBA scoring 50 a game.
Herro wasn't a 1 and done and now he's almost a lock for the 1st round.

Josh Harrelson was a nobody and played major minutes--and played well on a Final 4 team.

Derek Willis and Dom Hawkins contributed on an Elite 8 team as lower ranked guys.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Calipari didn't force Tyler Ulis to leave Kentucky.... He was 5'9 160 (generous) and had a chance to get paid to play in the NBA after an All-American season. Signing De'Aaron Fox didn't make Tyler Ulis leave Kentucky. Tyler Ulis was going to start no matter who was alongside him. Saying his money would have been the same is just incorrect. The older you get, the less time you have to make money playing professionally. Who are we to tell a kid when to get paid if given the opportunity?

Would you have liked for Calipari to have locked Ulis in a room and not let him gone pro?

Tyler Ulis is not a long term pro and was never going to be. He didn't need to get started after two years to maximize his potential. Where is Tyler today?

 

[TFCat11]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

Cal’s business plan when he arrived, was exactly what UK needed. But, with all businesses, they have to adapt and evolve marketing strategies to stay relevant. The ones that do usually stay successful. The ones that don’t, not so much.

 

[Cats192]

In short, it's...tough.

Kids come to Kentucky because they think it gives them a chance to go pro.
If you don't go after year 1--you're probably going after year 2.


What you hope happens is we get so much talent that some guys have to come back. And it's happening. But then guys start transferring. Kids don't want to sit and grow behind the elite 1 and done's.

Charles Matthews should have been a really good 3-4 year guy at Kentucky. SKJ should be a junior going into his senior season. In a year where we need extra depth at the big man spots.

You have to find the guys that aren't in a rush to get to the NBA. But that means recruiting some less talented guys. Even then, you get a 4-star like Herro and he winds up looking like he's going pro after 1 year.

 

[Randy Bob]

Why does Ky does not have all the scholarships filled?

 

[akaukswoosh]

Auburn and Texas Tech have never been to a final four. Kentucky fans just would not tolerate that.

Exactly.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Why does Ky does not have all the scholarships filled?

Probably because Cal knows he's only going to play a small rotation.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

Other programs seem to get players to stay 2-4 years. What can we do to get an experience group combined with some great freshman?

Michigan State has 2 seniors, 1 junior, 1 sophomore and 1 freshman starting. Are they recruiting non top 10 players?

Does Cal talk the players into leaving? I don't want this to turn into a Cal bashing thread but seriously discuss what is going on? We all expect it to happen. I mean we had Daniel Orton leave in 2010 and he didn't even start.

It's sort of a catch 22 for Cal. Because he is so good at recruiting top talent every year, you don't have many guys willing to wait their chance to be impactful their JR & SR years because they know a fresh 5 McD AAs will be arriving every year. Look at Matthews. He was behind Murray & Briscoe, saw he would be behind Monk & Briscoe the next year. And figured the year after that he would be behind someone else (he would have, Knox & Diallo). So he left.

At this point, I think Cal is just waiting for the NBA draft-age change so that once again he can be the early-adapter to recruitment changes to create as talented a team as he can.

 

[Comebakatz3]

I love that Calipari is making a player first type program. I think that it sets us up great for the future. It can really help marketing and future recruiting for kids to grow up watching Davis and Wall and Boogie, etc. be UK players and then become NBA stars. It can make them UK fans themselves. I think it is similar to how UNC has benefitted from being the school of Jordan. Now, can UK get some long term benefit from being the school of more NBA stars than anyone else?

That being said, I’d like to see Cal try to bring in a few more 4 star players that are potential studs. Tennessee flamed out a little early, but they still had a pretty solid season with all 3 or 4 star recruits. Can Kentucky find a Bone or a Schofield or a Williams (minus the flops) to come in and maybe not be NBA ready right away, but who develop themselves into being, at a minimum, really good college players (especially offensively)? Look at Auburn… Brown was a 3 star recruit, and Harper and Okeke both 4 star guys. How do we find and get guys like that to come to UK? I don’t want my whole team built around them, but at the very least I’d like to see those be supplemental guys who can grow into big roles like they did at those two schools. Maybe it isn’t possible because the playing time isn’t there, but I’d like to see a little less roster turnover and for us to find some good developable talent.

 

[TomTraubertsBlues]

But Cal is recruiting guys that are not OADs. Willis, Hawkins, Dakari, Wynyard, Lamb, Poole, Vargas, Wiltjer, Poythress, Lee, Ulis, Harrison twins, WCS, Briscoe, Gabriel, Humphries, SKJ, Green, Richards. It's not that Cal only recruits OADs, it is that he doesn't get players to say more than 2 yrs, outside a couple of exceptions.

 

[TomTraubertsBlues]

It's sort of a catch 22 for Cal. Because he is so good at recruiting top talent every year, you don't have many guys willing to wait their chance to be impactful their JR & SR years because they know a fresh 5 McD AAs will be arriving every year. Look at Matthews. He was behind Murray & Briscoe, saw he would be behind Monk & Briscoe the next year. And figured the year after that he would be behind someone else (he would have, Knox & Diallo). So he left.

At this point, I think Cal is just waiting for the NBA draft-age change so that once again he can be the early-adapter to recruitment changes to create as talented a team as he can.

That is why he doesn't use all of his scholarships. He doesn't want 3 or 4 guy crying about not getting PT. Outside of 2015, he only plays 6 or 7 guys down the stretch.