Shoot The Ball When Open.........

[Anon1751594821]

I know there are a few on the board that disagree, but we HAVE to take the open 3 point shots when we are wide open. There were a bunch of times tonight that guys(especially Paul) passed up wide open 3 point shots, to only pass the ball and allow Seton Hall to recover defensively and either force a turnover or we missed badly on a contested shot.

Shoot the ball if you are wide open!!! There is always a chance of getting the rebound if we miss. Look at how many rebounds Seton Hall got on their missed shots.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Caliknight]

We are a very poor rebounding team. But yea, you need to shoot when open at this level. The collective confidence shooting of the team is very low. We need shooters. Same thing every year.

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

Rutgers is ranked 313th in three point shooting. Because of that, other teams invite us to shoot threes. It's a good strategy on their part.

 

[kcg88]

Rutgers is ranked 313th in three point shooting. Because of that, other teams invite us to shoot threes. It's a good strategy on their part.

We're 301st in 3P% and 280th in 2P%. ANY open shot should be taken.

 

[willisneverrana43]

FS1 showed all our shooting numbers last night. It was embarrassing. It’s near amazing that nothing has been effectively done to fix or just improve this. Year after year.

 

[mugrat86]

I think we would be a heck of a lot better at 3’s if we designed more plays to get players open looks rather than constantly having Geo shoot the step back shots

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

We're 301st in 3P% and 280th in 2P%. ANY open shot should be taken.

That logic makes zero sense. Having guys who can't shoot three's launch them at will is a recipe for failure. Of course you back off defensively on a guy who can't shoot threes. If you ever played, even just pick up, isn't that how you covered that guy?

 

[kcg88]

That logic makes zero sense. Having guys who can't shoot three's launch them at will is a recipe for failure. Of course you back off defensively on a guy who can't shoot threes. If you ever played, even just pick up, isn't that how you covered that guy?

When the alternative is passing up that shot and either:

1. Taking a two-point shot that is also low percentage
2. Turning it over

Then yes, you shoot it.

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

When the alternative is passing up that shot and either:

1. Taking a two-point shot that is also low percentage
2. Turning it over

Then yes, you shoot it.

So, then work for a better two point shot for yourself or pass it off to a guy for a better two or to a higher percentage three point shooter.

 

[RU-ROCS]

I know there are a few on the board that disagree, but we HAVE to take the open 3 point shots when we are wide open. There a were a bunch of times tonight that guys(especially Paul) passed up wide open 3 point shots, to only pass the ball and allow Seton Hall to recover defensively and either force a turnover or we missed badly on a contested shot.

Shoot the ball if you are wide open!!! There is always a chance of getting the rebound if we miss. Look at how many rebounds Seton Hall got on their missed shots.

Best of Luck,
Groz

I agree, especially Paul. He had the highest 3-point % on the team last year yet refuses to pull the trigger. As the PG, he has to take those wide open shots to keep the D honest.

 

[The RUT]

The issue is that people view good offensive play whether the bucket goes in or not. That’s simply not true.

Good offensive play is when you take a quality shot regardless of the outcome. In other words, a clean shot in rhythm is what matters.

Your shooting percentage will naturally increase when doing this. Instead we go helter skelter and take a poor shot or a desperation 3.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think I agree with the OP. The debate shows the limitations with the roster. We’d be fine with hockey style substitutions.

 

[RUJMM78]

FS1 showed all our shooting numbers last night. It was embarrassing. It’s near amazing that nothing has been effectively done to fix or just improve this. Year after year.

Its easier to ignore than fix when it comes to recruiting.

 

[rucoe89]

We are a very poor rebounding team. But yea, you need to shoot when open at this level. The collective confidence shooting of the team is very low. We need shooters. Same thing every year.

A pattern that most have observed except the ones closest to it.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Rutgers is ranked 313th in three point shooting. Because of that, other teams invite us to shoot threes. It's a good strategy on their part.

We shot over 40% from three in the two games prior to SHU.

SHOOT OPEN THREES.

If you cannot hit them we are gonna lose anyway.

 

[knight82]

How many times have you heard the color commentator on a game when someone misses a wide open three, "there's a reason why he was wide open"

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

So, a couple of people think Caleb should have the greenlight to shoot a three anytime he is "open"?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

So, a couple of people think Caleb should have the greenlight to shoot a three anytime he is "open"?

No. Sometimes.. often really.. tactics require looking for a better shot.. but at some point during the possession, yeah.. take the open three.

Example: we work hard on defense.. maybe we need to take on-court "rests" while on offense.. use clock.. force the other team to play defense. Then again, the way our "offense" is dysfunctional.. perhaps a quick shot in transition is our best opportunity.

I don't understand why the Seton Hall game offense looked so different than the Purdue game offense. Maybe if someone explains that I can better judge if Caleb should take open threes whenever he is "open".

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

No. Sometimes.. often really.. tactics require looking for a better shot.. but at some point during the possession, yeah.. take the open three.

Example: we work hard on defense.. maybe we need to take on-court "rests" while on offense.. use clock.. force the other team to play defense. Then again, the way our "offense" is dysfunctional.. perhaps a quick shot in transition is our best opportunity.

I don't understand why the Seton Hall game offense looked so different than the Purdue game offense. Maybe if someone explains that I can better judge if Caleb should take open threes whenever he is "open".

Even bad shooters have days when they just can't miss. Honestly, every team we play has scouted us and they know who they are going to let launch threes. Now, there is the chance that a terrible shooter has a night where he just can't miss. It happens. But if you are playing the math, you will win most games by just letting the bad shooters shoot. As Knight 82 said, sometimes there is a reason someone is open.

 

[RUsojo]

I know there are a few on the board that disagree, but we HAVE to take the open 3 point shots when we are wide open. There were a bunch of times tonight that guys(especially Paul) passed up wide open 3 point shots, to only pass the ball and allow Seton Hall to recover defensively and either force a turnover or we missed badly on a contested shot.

Shoot the ball if you are wide open!!! There is always a chance of getting the rebound if we miss. Look at how many rebounds Seton Hall got on their missed shots.

Best of Luck,
Groz

I think this is stipulates by Pikiell. Even over the last two years when we were very successful we would pass on open 3s early in the shot clock. The logic is often make more passes and wait to get a better shot but since we are not that strong an offensive team we usually winded up with work looks.

It would be helpful to take these shots when they arise.

 

[RUsojo]

So, then work for a better two point shot for yourself or pass it off to a guy for a better two or to a higher percentage three point shooter.

This is what we’re not good at and contributes to why we shoot poorly to begin with.

 

[Caliknight]

Gets back to running a proper offense. Passing properly and ball movement. We are not good at shooting, and we compound the issue by not running an offense that gets guys good looks. We are constantly taking contested looks off the dribble with a shot clock running out. It does us no favors.

I'd love to see what we work on in practice. I bet we spend an inordinate amount of time of defensive sets. When it comes to offense, we don't do the even the most basic fundamentals well, like picking and crisp passing to proper positions.

 

[RUJMM78]

No. Sometimes.. often really.. tactics require looking for a better shot.. but at some point during the possession, yeah.. take the open three.

Example: we work hard on defense.. maybe we need to take on-court "rests" while on offense.. use clock.. force the other team to play defense. Then again, the way our "offense" is dysfunctional.. perhaps a quick shot in transition is our best opportunity.

I don't understand why the Seton Hall game offense looked so different than the Purdue game offense. Maybe if someone explains that I can better judge if Caleb should take open threes whenever he is "open".

Seton Hall played better man to man defense as compared with Pudue.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Seton Hall played better man to man defense as compared with Pudue.

while that may be true.. we did not move the ball nor the players on offense.. lots of iso crap

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

As Knight 82 said, sometimes there is a reason someone is open.

And that, on most teams, is good ball movement, good screens, defenses doubling on a threat.. penetration and passing.. etc.

But I am supposed to believe all our open threes are defenses allowing a certain person to shoot?

PM shot 39% from three last year. He should never be on the list of players to allow to take threes.. yet he has missed open threes.

McConnell does fit that description.. shot 20% last year.. 28% the prior year and as a frosh almost 36%.. what the hell. And like PM, his percentage is down from even last year.

 

[fluoxetine]

How many times have you heard the color commentator on a game when someone misses a wide open three, "there's a reason why he was wide open"

The color commentator said it? Well that settles it then.

 

[knight82]

The color commentator said it? Well that settles it then.

Let's see. Whose opinion is more valid: a guy who played or coached, or some clown on a message board?

 

[fluoxetine]

Let's see. Whose opinion is more valid: a guy who played or coached, or some clown on a message board?

It depends.

But also, you are a clown on a message board so this is not very supportive of your argument.

 

[Anon1751594821]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I believe in this more than ever.

Yes, we missed many shots(especially Caleb), BUT how many times did we NOT take the open 3 point shot yesterday, then only to take a much tougher shot and miss badly??

Why is it that some games we do move the ball crisply and get open shots and others we revert back to an offense that moves slowly and we look awful?

Shoot the ball when you are wide open. It is not like we move the ball around and get an open 8 foot shot. Our team is not setup that way.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[richthedentist]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I believe in this more than ever.

Yes, we missed many shots(especially Caleb), BUT how many times did we NOT take the open 3 point shot yesterday, then only to take a much tougher shot and miss badly??

Why is it that some games we do move the ball crisply and get open shots and others we revert back to an offense that moves slowly and we look awful?

Shoot the ball when you are wide open. It is not like we move the ball around and get an open 8 foot shot. Our team is not setup that way.

Best of Luck,
Groz

I agree 100% we too often pass up the wide open 3 or any shot and then end up taking a much more difficult 3 or a rushed shot at the end of the clock

 

[FRA10Thunderbolt]

I know there are a few on the board that disagree, but we HAVE to take the open 3 point shots when we are wide open. There were a bunch of times tonight that guys(especially Paul) passed up wide open 3 point shots, to only pass the ball and allow Seton Hall to recover defensively and either force a turnover or we missed badly on a contested shot.

Shoot the ball if you are wide open!!! There is always a chance of getting the rebound if we miss. Look at how many rebounds Seton Hall got on their missed shots.

Best of Luck,
Groz

Agree 100%. Saw guys with wide open looks feign a shot then pass. It happened many times against Maryland.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We have this thread and another that complains Caleb took 15 shots. i am not sure where i fall in my thinkinbg

 

[fluoxetine]

We have this thread and another that complains Caleb took 15 shots. i am not sure where i fall in my thinkinbg

I complained about Caleb taking so many shots, but I think I have been convinced by the people that argued against me.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I wish he just made the shots. It is a sad state of affairs when 1 guard has no points and the other guard we want turning down open 3s. Shouldnt be a surprise that we are 68th in adjusted offensive effiency out of 76 power conference teams.

 

[ImBadRU]

Recruit people who can shoot and score. Simple.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Recruit people who can shoot and score. Simple.

If it were that simple Jaden Jones would be scoring 10 PPG.

 

[bitnez]

I posted this in another thread -- you don't take a shot simply because you are open. If you are not a 3-point shooter you shouldn't be taking them in the game (and certainly not in volume). And, even if you are an outsider shooter (and we only have Ron and Geo who fit this category) when you are not hitting your shot a smart defense will sag off of you thereby giving you even more open shots. It's a vicious cycle that leads to long scoring droughts.

We should be doing the exact opposite. Instead of settling for 3s (and yes, even if you are open it can be settling), we should be driving to the basket forcing the action at the rim.

 

[fluoxetine]

I posted this in another thread -- you don't take a shot simply because you are open. If you are not a 3-point shooter you shouldn't be taking them in the game (and certainly not in volume).

Yes.

And, even if you are an outsider shooter (and we only have Ron and Geo who fit this category) when you are not hitting your shot a smart defense will sag off of you thereby giving you even more open shots. It's a vicious cycle that leads to long scoring droughts.

No. A smart defense will not sag off Ron or Geo if they have missed a few shots. If a defense does do that, they should take those shots.

If you take more threes you will have more scoring droughts but also more scoring explosions. It's higher variance.

We should be doing the exact opposite. Instead of settling for 3s (and yes, even if you are open it can be settling), we should be driving to the basket forcing the action at the rim.

We should be doing both. We don't take a lot of threes, so we shouldn't be replacing threes with shots at the rim IMO. We should be replacing the midrange garbage with some additional threes and some additional shots at the rim.

 

[fluoxetine]

To be clear, when people say "shoot the ball if open" they are not saying Cliff and Agee should start jacking up threes.

 

[bitnez]

I understand that's not what they mean, but my points still stand. And, I disagree that when we hit our scoring droughts during every game Ron/Geo should continue to take 3s. You break droughts driving the ball to the rim and scoring and/or getting fouled. We fall in love with "open" jump shots.