Serious question to the keep Lebby crowd

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

That's what will happen again. We'll have a smoke and mirrors season next year then be terrible in 2028.

The question is, how high can those smoke and mirrors go next year?

We can actually be very good in 27. We were not any good in 07, we just got lucky a bunch of times in a weak league. That's the difference.

 

[The Peeper]

So, we just get all our millionaire boosters, Selmon, and Keenum to sit down with a 19-year-old, they all ask him what he wants for a head coach next year, then do whatever he asks so long as he stays…..based on like, a pinky promise or something?

I don’t think anyone suggesting “do whatever K1 wants” has really thought through the particulars of how ridiculous that would be.

No, you don't ask Taylor first what he wants. You go ahead and hire a respectable coach asap first then you sit down with Taylor and tell him what you've done. Then if he stays, great. If he leaves wish him well. But you don't give Lebby a raise and extension (just an asinine idea but its been put out there) like some have suggested just to keep Taylor another year (who you also are going to have to give a raise to), then you're stuck with Lebby and the raise you gifted him which is just suicide

 

[thekimmer]

The only legitimate reason to keep Lebby is Mississippi State's constant churn of head coaches will scare off some decent candidates. You could probably add State's low NIL spending compared to the rest of the conference as another turn off to candidates.

So, even though our NIL spending would be probably better than any of the current jobs open right now, it isn't relative to our competition. It's considered a tough job nationally and firing Lebby after an injury laden season makes the fanbase and administration look irrational and impatient.

Now, I think the right candidate can overcome all of State's deficiencies, and it's not like we're demanding to go to the playoffs every year or every other year. However, we've already seen good candidates tell us no thanks in previous coaching searches (Fritz, Chadwell, Sark), so the concerns are real.

What is the 'constant churn'? The whole leach/Arnett period was a complicated mess created by the AD leaving followed by the HC dying a few weeks later in the midst of a pandemic.

 

[thekimmer]

Really the only reason to keep him is if Kamario Taylor gives us an ultimatum. And I’m not even sure that’s good enough reason to keep him. Someone said doomsday scenario is we keep Lebby to keep Kamario, win 8 games next year, then go 4-8 in 2028.

If we win 8 next season with Kamario Lebby will be here the next two seasons.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

I'm indifferent to whether he stays or he goes but I've been a fan long enough to know that the best coach at MSU is ALWAYS the next coach and that hasn't always worked out well for us historically. K1 is going to have suitors that are going to offer him the moon. You add more fuel to the fire when you tell him you're firing his coach. I'm no insider but I do know that Lebby and K1 are close. Pick your poison.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

They are out there. Its the same ol crowd that: 1) Wanted Jackie to stay on thru 2004 2) Can't fire Croom SECOY 3) Can't rid of Joe who else will take the job? Players won't come here if we keep turning over

To be fair, on the turnover point, we've had quite a bit of coaching churn and not much success to show for it. Had the pirate lived, we might be singing a different tune but who knows? The whole CFB world has become unrecognizable since he coached his last game.

 

[POTUS]

So, we just get all our millionaire boosters, Selmon, and Keenum to sit down with a 19-year-old, they all ask him what he wants for a head coach next year, then do whatever he asks so long as he stays…..based on like, a pinky promise or something?

I don’t think anyone suggesting “do whatever K1 wants” has really thought through the particulars of how ridiculous that would be.

Let me tell you what would be even more ridiculous, letting a generationally talented QB who grew up a State fan go anywhere else.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

If KT is good enough to turn what we have now into a playoff team then why wouldn't he do that next season with a new guy? I do get the depressing thought of starting over...again. Regardless of whether we move now or later it is obvious to me that Lebby does not have what it takes to build a successful program. If KT is so good he does carry the team next season to 9 wins then we have to put up with Leb for at least one or maybe two more crappy seasons. It stinks to have to sack a HC with a guy like KT on the team but gotta do it now.

KT knows Lebby's offensive playbook and system because he's been in it for a while, practicing with these receivers in it for a while, etc. Anyone suggesting that he will instantly just command a new system is fooling themselves. Anybody who doesn't believe that he can pick up and execute at the same level with a new coach, given a little time is wrong, but expecting day 1 in a new system to look like he looked in game 1 of this year is not reasonable. I'd be pumped if he did, but I just think that it will require substantial practice and learning to do so.

 

[PapaDawg]

I wonder what percentage of the fanbase actually want Lebby to return? Or better yet….what percentage of the cigar boys want him to return? As that really determines if he returns or not.

The fan base wants to win. We don’t give a 17 whether it is with Lebby or someone else. Nobody wanted to fire him after the first 4 games of the season. Nobody would give a 17 if we fired him after these last 4 games. He does make a lot of confusing decisions, but those were forgotten while we were winning.
The fanbase does what fanatics do. We are either on top of the mountain or buried in the valley.
School leadership and the high dollar donors will make the decision.

 

[johnson86-1]

1.Not starting Swann against LSU and OK. ( I don't believe the injury BS).

Based on his limited playing time against UTex, then yes, it is a good argument against Lebby if Swann was healthy. If Swann was in fact limited and that's why Pucket started, it's hard to really fault a coach for his third string QB not being good enough to win games. Prior to free transfers, it was reasonably to expect the third string QB to at least be SEC quality. You have to sign one every year and while a younger QB that's obviously the heir apparent can make it hard, you should have a veteran on the roster that's adequate. But you can't blame somebody for not having a third QB ready to go. You pretty much have to just get lucky and have a freshman that's ready to play because third string QB's usually aren't going to stick around for a second year unless both the people ahead of him are in their final year of eligibility.

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Maybe it's just a rational take.

I did not want to keep Jackie after 2004. He had lost control of the team and his tenure was over and then we hired Croom. That worked out well didn't it.

I wanted to fire Croom after year 3, but we didn't and it resulted in a smoke and mirrors 2007 season that extended him another season.

We got extremely lucky hiring Leach after Moorhead, but that resulted in a positive.

Firing Lebby would be our 6th coach in 10 17ing years. You might as well throw away 2027 and K1's final season if we do that. The offense is dynamic with him in there healthy, and if we win Vandy and TT- which I think we will- Lebby has improved every season he has been here. Those are the facts.

6 HCs in 10 years isn't that different from a lot of our SEC brethren:

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Where do you get 6 coaches in 10 years?

Disregard. That would include the new coach and I guess Trauma erased Arnett from my memory lol

Technically, it would be 7 if you include Knox as the interim after Arnett.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Maybe it's just a rational take.

I did not want to keep Jackie after 2004. He had lost control of the team and his tenure was over and then we hired Croom. That worked out well didn't it.

I wanted to fire Croom after year 3, but we didn't and it resulted in a smoke and mirrors 2007 season that extended him another season.

We got extremely lucky hiring Leach after Moorhead, but that resulted in a positive.

Firing Lebby would be our 6th coach in 10 17ing years. You might as well throw away 2027 and K1's final season if we do that. The offense is dynamic with him in there healthy, and if we win Vandy and TT- which I think we will- Lebby has improved every season he has been here. Those are the facts.

So you are suggesting a team cannot win with a new coach?
Hmm.

 

[thekimmer]

Here is the bottom line. I have learned from 40 years of managing people that deciding that firing someone is really easy when you aren't the one that has to pull the trigger. Not as much when you are.

Ultimately, Lebby's fate will not be decided by popular fan vote or even unilaterally by Selmon or even Keenum. His fate will be decided by the elite few that write big donation checks to the athletic program. When enough of them decide they have had enough to stop writing checks and/or start writing them to fund a buyout, that is when JL will be gone. Not before.

 

[patdog]

Here is the bottom line. I have learned from 40 years of managing people that deciding that firing someone is really easy when you aren't the one that has to pull the trigger. Not as much when you are.

Ultimately, Lebby's fate will not be decided by popular fan vote or even unilaterally by Selmon or even Keenum. His fate will be decided by the elite few that write big donation checks to the athletic program. When enough of them decide they have had enough to stop writing checks and/or start writing them to fund a buyout, that is when JL will be gone. Not before.

It’s not easy but sometimes it has to be done. And if you hesitate too much maybe 2 people need to be fired.

 

[Perd Hapley]

What coaching decisions, this year, have been egregious? Maybe I've just zoned out after we're down multiple scores the past moth.

Having K1 still in the game against Bama, with a known turf toe injury, while we were down 25 points late in the 3rd quarter, which allowed an aggravation to the injury to occur.

Having a clearly hobbled K1 start against OU and getting a 2nd aggravation of the injury, instead of resting him or at least holding him out for high leverage series or quarter or half when he’s truly needed.

The debacle at the end of the first half against Mizzou.

We weren’t really competitive enough at any other time in the past 4 weeks for him to have a decision that got put under the microscope, and that’s also on him.

 

[Theconnormead]

I want to keep K1. Whatever that takes, I’m for. If that’s keeping Lebby, keep him.

I don’t believe you can make a long-term decision about the future of a program based on the possibility of keeping one player for one more year....no matter how good he is.

 

[BigDawg0074]

I’m not seeing improvement outside of Kamario’s talent. Lebby has recruited receivers but I don’t think that’s a particularly hard thing to do. Picking up juco linemen isn’t either. Since Taylor has been on campus he has scored 31 of the 58 total offensive touchdowns for the team. This year he has scored 18 of 27 total. Without Kamario Taylor there is no step forward and Lebby didn’t recruit the guy. There’s probably at least one guy in this thread that could draw up scores for K1. Lebby has not improved, he inherited a dream QB, that’s it. If Taylor weren’t a Bulldog diehard Jeff Lebby would be winless in conference play.

 

[Bullldawg78]

6 HCs in 10 years isn't that different from a lot of our SEC brethren:

View attachment 1513569

Wait we added USF, Purdue and Kansas? Who's the odd team out? Is it us? Winner of this weekends game gets to stay????***

 

[Indndawg]

If we lose to Vandy and Auburn the calls for firing are going to be loud, even if they are non-sensical. Then the Egg Bowl, even though it's in Oxford and they are better - fans will emotionally react.

I too think keeping him would be the lesser of all the evils, but he's also got to do something positive this month. If we simply take 2 home losses, squeak by FCS, and get destroyed in Oxford, I just don't see how there is any morale left on this team to take into next season.

Its setting up like 2008, maybe getta a FCS win and look OK and killed in Lafayette county. Booted

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

So you are suggesting a team cannot win with a new coach?
Hmm.

Think of 2018. Returning top 5 QB in MSU history. Best defense in the country. New Coach. New system. How'd that work out ?

 

[The Peeper]

Here is the bottom line. I have learned from 40 years of managing people that deciding that firing someone is really easy when you aren't the one that has to pull the trigger. Not as much when you are.

Ultimately, Lebby's fate will not be decided by popular fan vote or even unilaterally by Selmon or even Keenum. His fate will be decided by the elite few that write big donation checks to the athletic program. When enough of them decide they have had enough to stop writing checks and/or start writing them to fund a buyout, that is when JL will be gone. Not before.

As a young fresh out of college guy it bothered me when I had to start hiring and firing, I dreaded it. The further I progressed though in my working life it got easier. It got easier to the point that I looked at it like "hey, its not a popularity contest its a job. Its a job that I'm paid to do and if I have a legitimate reason to fire someone so be it." I got to where I would have fired somebody on Christmas Eve if I had the legitimate reason, not because I enjoyed it but because I knew I was right and they had done wrong somehow. I would tell them point blank that when THEIR problems became MY PROBLEMS, then WE BOTH had a problem and I wasn't going to allow THEIR problems to hold me back by becoming MY problems too, that I had a problem to fix and they usually understood.

I'm just a lowly consultant now and no longer have to make those decisions but it no longer bothered me at all when I did after awhile.

Selmon has a problem that has become his because Lebby isn't doing his job. It's time for Selmon to correct the problem one way or another or he's not doing his job and they both have a problem that then becomes Keenum's (as I roll my eyes)

 

[POTUS]

I don’t believe you can make a long-term decision about the future of a program based on the possibility of keeping one player for one more year....no matter how good he is

One Name. Two Words. Cam Newton.

 

[Deltaduckhunter]

At the end of last year I was one for giving Lebby another year since he inherited a dumpster fire in year one. The first four games and even through Bama I thought we had our guy, but I had no idea how much one player was carrying the team. I think without KT early in the year, we would have 2 wins now (maybe). Without him there is absolutely no one to turn to that can sustain drives. It now looks like Arnett has the worst D he ever fielded for us and I have to assume it is because of recruiting he inherited.

Long story short, I have went from feeling pretty good about Lebby to not seeing how we could retain him in four weekends, but I think the collapse has been that dramatic.

 

[BigDawg0074]

Better than

Think of 2018. Returning top 5 QB in MSU history. Best defense in the country. New Coach. New system. How'd that work out ?

They had three ranked wins, 4-4 in the conference with a win in Oxford. Probably better than Lebby will ever achieve here. Moorhead was a hardhead but he wasn’t stupid. Lebby is a dumb dumb.

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Better than

They had three ranked wins, 4-4 in the conference with a win in Oxford. Probably better than Lebby will ever achieve here. Moorhead was a hardhead but he wasn’t stupid. Lebby is a dumb dumb.

Totally... 8-5 with 2 guys on the team that are currently wrecking the defending Super Bowl champs on their home field.

 

[Ranchdawg]

I want to keep him because he doubled our SEC wins! I also think it doesn't matter who coaches at State. Our Demographic is what kills us. The SEC and ESPN were happy when we had a Heisman hopeful. Now we are a scourge, a sore spot on their schedule. Even our fans aren't interested anymore so why should they be?