Serious question - Not bashing or looking for hyperbolic statements

[TomTraubertsBlues]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

 

[ala_kat2]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I think it’s a legitimate concern, but don’t know why it’s happening. Is it the way Cal coaches the last 10 minutes of the game or is it something else?

 

[BBUK_anon]

I am in no way a basketball expert. I stated this previously and had some tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. I called it (I am sure I heard it some where) taking the air out of the ball. The play slows down the last part of the games (The 10 to 15 minute mark left of games) to where possessions are less per minute.

I noticed it seriously during the 2012 season. Those games where teams like ku came back to make it a game against UK where Self's statement..."they ran out of time" came from...

Almost every game since I have noticed it. Anyone can come here and state again I do not know what I am talking about how what Cal is doing is very smart and works great and that is fine.

I see a UK team burying their opponents playing a certain way all game until that time Cal....takes the air out of the ball and here comes teams making a game of it. Yeah UK may win but they sure do not intimidate, take a teams will to win away, or allow (Pick the UK team.) the particular UK team to see what they are really capable of due to what I call taking the "safe" way out by playing statistics. (I know the numbers) Why does Cal always get away from what brought him to where he can "Take the air out of the ball"...

I guess I will just concede, Cal and many others know better than me... (Speaking for myself, I like to use what I do best if it is a case where a win or a loss is involved...If you beat me, you will beat me while I am doing my best. I can live with that.)

 

[bkingUK]

Calipari knew he had some house money to play with when there was about 12 minutes left and was playing around with the lineup. What I think he really wanted to see is if a Washington, Mintz, Allen, Collins and Hopkins lineup could pull their weight. They struggled and he kept looking to bench like he was going to change it, but then would walk back to his seat area. Especially with Ware and Toppin out, I think he wants to see if there are other viable lineups and with the injuries and a cupcake, he gave them a shot to grow. Hopkins and Collins also rounded out the game. He’s not doing that to take it easy, trying to get experience for those two. Notice they continued to quarter court press through much of that time.

 

[CELTICAT]

Outscored 20-17 in the last 12:20 of the game. Only scored 12 points in the last 11 minutes of the game.

last year we lost something like 12 games where we had a lead in the final ten minutes.

that Wisconsin game will forever loom over Cal’s tenure, imo, but UNC, Kstate, and Auburn all unfolded in similar fashion.

 

[Catsfan29]

Happened in 2015 against Wisconsin as well. We didn't have a massive lead but still took the air out of the ball. Those 3 shot clock violations hurt big time.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I am more concerned about the way we have been starting games than finishing games.

 

[kyjeff1]

I am more concerned about the way we have been starting games than finishing games.

Man, why are you being so negative?

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Man, why are you being so negative?

When is expressing a concern being negative? I am not bashing Cal or the team like you. Get a life man.

 

[alsibrde]

I think this team is different. While we started slow, we got rolling. If you watch a lot of top teams this year, a lot are getting beat or winning by single digits at half. This team will be fine.

 

[CincyUKFan]

Calipari knew he had some house money to play with when there was about 12 minutes left and was playing around with the lineup. What I think he really wanted to see is if a Washington, Mintz, Allen, Collins and Hopkins lineup could pull their weight. They struggled and he kept looking to bench like he was going to change it, but then would walk back to his seat area. Especially with Ware and Toppin out, I think he wants to see if there are other viable lineups and with the injuries and a cupcake, he gave them a shot to grow. Hopkins and Collins also rounded out the game. He’s not doing that to take it easy, trying to get experience for those two. Notice they continued to quarter court press through much of that time.

Gave everyone but Allen a shot. 9 minutes. NIL money the only thing the kid must be sticking around for. Recruited over again next year, very odd to stick around. Dude could get major minutes at other power five programs.

 

[revcort]

It was disturbing last season when we kept losing games down the stretch and couldn't buy a basket. But I don't think this is like that at all. We got the margin to 31 twice and Cal decided to put in 4 subs at once. So, he put in those 4 new guys with Washington and we had all 3 freshmen on the floor at once. Makes me glad we got all these transfers and some upperclassmen. Collins and Hopkins just aren't ready yet. They will come along but this game was not a good match for either of them.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

We were drubbing them by what, 30 at one point? The players started to check out, the horses were called off.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Gave everyone but Allen a shot. 9 minutes. NIL money the only thing the kid must be sticking around for. Recruited over again next year, very odd to stick around. Dude could get major minutes at other power five programs.

Quit whining

 

[kyjeff1]

When is expressing a concern being negative? I am not bashing Cal or the team like you. Get a life man.

Ohhhh, it's okay when you do it. I see. Got it.

 

[bkingUK]

Gave everyone but Allen a shot. 9 minutes. NIL money the only thing the kid must be sticking around for. Recruited over again next year, very odd to stick around. Dude could get major minutes at other power five programs.

Yea well if Grady was injured, Allen would get more run too

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Ohhhh, it's okay when you do it. I see. Got it.

And are you that stupid? Where in that post did I bash anyone. No wonder no one on this board can get along with you.

 

[bkingUK]

On a different note, I worry a bit about Hopkins. He’s a classic PF/SF tweener. His value is definitely in slashing, but he’s got to be a better jump shooter to get legit minutes...or he has to excel at D and rebounding.

 

[CincyUKFan]

Quit whining

Is that whining? Looks to me like just pointing something out and expressing curiosity.

If given 23 minutes against this squad and playing with the first unit (as Grady did), are you thinking Allen doesn’t hit the same shots and score a whopping 8 points and play the same ****** defense? I’ll answer for you: of course he would. And I’m not bitching about it. Just wondering what keeps the dude here. He was stuck behind a non-productive Boston. Now he’s stuck behind a dude who is the same player that he is. Next year there will be an influx of superior guards. Seems like legit question to me…

 

[bkingUK]

Is that whining? Looks to me like just pointing something out and expressing curiosity.

If given 23 minutes against this squad and playing with the first unit (as Grady did), are you thinking Allen doesn’t hit the same shots and score a whopping 8 points and play the same ****** defense? I’ll answer for you: of course he would. And I’m not bitching about it. Just wondering what keeps the dude here. He was stuck behind a non-productive Boston. Now he’s stuck behind a dude who is the same player that he is. Next year there will be an influx of superior guards. Seems like legit question to me…

Yea we are missing two forwards in an already thin front court. Unless you’re proposing playing Brooks and Tshiebwe more for the sake of being equitable with Allen, don’t think you have a leg to stand on,

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Is that whining? Looks to me like just pointing something out and expressing curiosity.

If given 23 minutes against this squad and playing with the first unit (as Grady did), are you thinking Allen doesn’t hit the same shots and score a whopping 8 points and play the same ****** defense? I’ll answer for you: of course he would. And I’m not bitching about it. Just wondering what keeps the dude here. He was stuck behind a non-productive Boston. Now he’s stuck behind a dude who is the same player that he is. Next year there will be an influx of superior guards. Seems like legit question to me…

I agree.

 

[akaukswoosh]

On a different note, I worry a bit about Hopkins. He’s a classic PF/SF tweener. His value is definitely in slashing, but he’s got to be a better jump shooter to get legit minutes...or he has to excel at D and rebounding.

Only three games in.

 

[bkingUK]

Only three games in.

I agree...and he has his role, just hard to see where he will fit in as lineup gets tighter. Too small to guard a 6’9 PF. Does a lot of things pretty good but nothing outstanding. I don’t think he can be like a Chuck Hayes undersized PF.

 

[CincyUKFan]

Yea we are missing two forwards in an already thin front court. Unless you’re proposing playing Brooks and Tshiebwe more for the sake of being equitable with Allen, don’t think you have a leg to stand on,

You care to answer the question regarding what Allen might do if given Grady’s minutes with the first team?

It’s clear as day to me that these dudes are the same player. Stand around a lot on offense. Primarily spot up three point shooters. And play terrible defense. Grady was one of the worst defensively tonight.

I’m not advocating that one play over the other. But I am wondering why you bring a guy in who you already have. And why, if you are Allen, you continue to stick around when it’s clear that you will not be given opportunities for the duration of your career here.

Just seems like a very strange situation all around.

 

[bkingUK]

You care to answer the question regarding what Allen might do if given Grady’s minutes with the first team?

It’s clear as day to me that these dudes are the same player. Stand around a lot on offense. Primarily spot up three point shooters. And play terrible defense. Grady was one of the worst defensively tonight.

I’m not advocating that one play over the other. But I am wondering why you bring a guy in who you already have. And why, if you are Allen, you continue to stick around when it’s clear that you will not be given opportunities for the duration of your career here.

Just seems like a very strange situation all around.

Grady is better than Allen. Has better mobility and might be our best finisher at the rim. To be honest, I’m a bit annoyed by the same old arguments. I get you are an Allen fan. Calipari giving Allen plenty of opportunity, but we also now have a team full of shooters where last year we struggled with shooting. He is less of a novelty, and credit to Calipari for bringing in talent. Also, by the way, the kid is only a sophomore.

 

[fs-ripcord65]

We were drubbing them by what, 30 at one point? The players started to check out, the horses were called off.

Whose fault is that ? (Not a rhetorical question.)

 

[kybassfan]

Actually this is a hard question and the answer isn’t always the same. Many coaches will not run the score up. Among them are Cal, Tubby, Pitino unless your name was Dale Brown) and none other than Nick Sabin. Fatigue is a factor some games. Resource management is another factor, such as clock, fouls and other considerations. Also, in some games, then end becomes almost practice.

I think beating a team by more than 30 is boorish and tactless. The coach should use the time for playing others or running plays designed to reproduce some game situation. The exception is defense. I think if you can hold them to zero, do it.

I think I understand why Cal and so many other coaches do this. Not sure I agree with it every time.

 

[arenk]

Outscored 20-17 in the last 12:20 of the game. Only scored 12 points in the last 11 minutes of the game.

last year we lost something like 12 games where we had a lead in the final ten minutes.

that Wisconsin game will forever loom over Cal’s tenure, imo, but UNC, Kstate, and Auburn all unfolded in similar fashion.

I get a sick feeling every time someone mentions that damn Wisconsin game. I don't think Cal tried taking the air out of the ball in that game. I think Cal went with the better defensive guards rather than Booker and Ulis who were getting beaten when they were in the game. I think we were determined to go to KAT, but they weren't going to let KAT beat them and denied him the ball. IMO, the other UK players choked, pure and simple. No one wanted to take those huge shots and we ended up taking terrible forced shots with the clock running down (when we weren't being called for 3 consecutive shot clock violations if my memory serves).

I do agree that generally speaking, Cal does believe in taking the air out of the ball and that nearly cost the 2012 team the National Championship. I hate that type of play because you should always play to win rather than not to lose. It's like the prevent defense in football. Ask the Atlanta Falcons how that worked out in the Super Bowl leading New England 28-3 with not much time left in the third quarter. Final: NE 31, Atl 28 was the final score if I recollection is correct. Ask the Cincinnati Brearcats how that worked out in 1963 when they had a 15 point lead on Loyola of Chicago with 8 minutes to play and tried to stall at a time when there was no shot clock. Final: Loyola 60, Cinn 58, in OT. Those are just two examples that are seared into my head.

 

[fs-ripcord65]

I read the first 10-15 posts in this thread, and my response to just about every one of them would have been essentially the same ... so I decided to just say it here. But, of course, I've said it many times before. John Calipari is not a good basketball coach. There's really no more to it than that. Somebody described him perfectly on this board the other day ... he's a used car salesman in a sweatsuit.
AND ... spare me the Hall of Fame b.s. The fact that John Calipari is in the Hall of Fame is the most laughable fact that I have ever known of in college basketball.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Whose fault is that ? (Not a rhetorical question.)

It's likely due to it being a new and inexperienced team (made by Cal), and Cal himself tinkering with the lineup.

I'm not against either of these, but I also understand why some people might be. For me personally, I put a heavy emphasis on teams needing time to gel and the staff (also new) learning how to maximize their potential. All things considered, I'm pretty happy with how tonight turned out, especially considering we were without 2 players from last year, giving us just three returning players, and really just one of them got starter minutes.

We come out a bit slow, although not as bad as some would have you believe... and then we throttle them for a while.. and then we let them slightly back into it. I personally don't expect much more from a new team in game 3.

 

[bkingUK]

I read the first 10-15 posts in this thread, and my response to just about every one of them would have been essentially the same ... so I decided to just say it here. But, of course, I've said it many times before. John Calipari is not a good basketball coach. There's really no more to it than that. Somebody described him perfectly on this board the other day ... he's a used car salesman in a sweatsuit.
AND ... spare me the Hall of Fame b.s. The fact that John Calipari is in the Hall of Fame is the most laughable fact that I have ever known of in college basketball.

I mean this with all due respect sir, but you don’t know anything about the game of basketball. And as such, looking at your posting history, you do not have the minimum baseline required for communication. Hencefoth, you are now banished to never be seen again.

 

[Rockfly78]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I just gotta know, what did you post that you regret? Come on bubba get that stuff off your chest.

 

[Rockfly78]

It really is amazing how much whining our internet fan base does. Pure entitlement. But hey since we’re here I may as well air my grievance too. When in Rome right?

I really don’t like looking out there and seeing Oscar on the floor when we are dog stomping a team I’ve never heard of late in the second half. Wheeler too for that matter. They better not be chasing stats and ****. Their health is paramount. Play the subs. They get better from the extra clock and that pays dividends later in the season. Although it could be because Cal doesn’t want to hear crap from the fans about the game being too close. Or maybe they really wanted that dude to win his money on that 200k bet. Who knows?

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I feel like that isn’t a unique thing to us. Look at a random game and look at the losing team. They probably didn’t close the game out well.

 

[bbnkat02]

It was Cal playing with house money and tinkering. He literally tried platooning and that didn’t work too well. He’s trying to see who he can rely on if O and TyTy go out. Or if Wheeler is in foul trouble.

We got a little sloppy on and they hit some tough shots. No 1 for their reman in particular hit some head scratches. On he was literally fading away out of bounds and it went in. It was decently guarded too. So, I’m not stressing over it.

Friday’s game wil, show us who we are right now. Ohio is not great, but they aren’t bad either. Another tourney like team you might see in round 1 or 2. That’s what I do like about playing mid majors early. They give you a different look and show you what kind of teams you might see early in the tournament.

Friday could be a rock fight for a half if we don’t come ready to play. Look at Alabam tonight. Struggle win city. The talent level is evening out in college basektball with transfers and some of these teams will sneak up and challenge you of you aren’t ready.

Look at Navy beating UVA.
Akron giving OSU all it could handle.
CoC playing UNC close most of the game
Duke falling behind to Army for a bit.

The message is don’t over look anyone. Not this year.

 

[megablue]

Grady is better than Allen. Has better mobility and might be our best finisher at the rim. To be honest, I’m a bit annoyed by the same old arguments. I get you are an Allen fan. Calipari giving Allen plenty of opportunity, but we also now have a team full of shooters where last year we struggled with shooting. He is less of a novelty, and credit to Calipari for bringing in talent. Also, by the way, the kid is only a sophomore.

With a Covid do-over, I think Allen can play three (3) more years. Not sure, though.

 

[blackcat714]

With a Covid do-over, I think Allen can play three (3) more years. Not sure, though.

Allen has the best seat in the house make pretty good money and get a free education.Whats not to like.

 

[26MichaelUK]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I feel you bro. This is the first year I never even watched big blue madness, the blue white game or our exhibition games. But really the Wisconsin game started the proverbial snowball. Being totally screwed by the refs against unc in the elite 8, and Auburn not committing a foul in the final 10 min of an elite 8 lost.

The officials have ruined the sport. You can literally watch a game in real time and the blatant inconsistency is mind boggling. Maybe I'm just getting older.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I am in no way a basketball expert. I stated this previously and had some tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. I called it (I am sure I heard it some where) taking the air out of the ball. The play slows down the last part of the games (The 10 to 15 minute mark left of games) to where possessions are less per minute.

I noticed it seriously during the 2012 season. Those games where teams like ku came back to make it a game against UK where Self's statement..."they ran out of time" came from...

Almost every game since I have noticed it. Anyone can come here and state again I do not know what I am talking about how what Cal is doing is very smart and works great and that is fine.

I see a UK team burying their opponents playing a certain way all game until that time Cal....takes the air out of the ball and here comes teams making a game of it. Yeah UK may win but they sure do not intimidate, take a teams will to win away, or allow (Pick the UK team.) the particular UK team to see what they are really capable of due to what I call taking the "safe" way out by playing statistics. (I know the numbers) Why does Cal always get away from what brought him to where he can "Take the air out of the ball"...

I guess I will just concede, Cal and many others know better than me... (Speaking for myself, I like to use what I do best if it is a case where a win or a loss is involved...If you beat me, you will beat me while I am doing my best. I can live with that.)

It’s absolutely because Cal takes the air out of the ball. It’s not always the case, but it is most of the time. I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise. It’s been going on since he came to UK.

 

[kyjeff1]

And are you that stupid? Where in that post did I bash anyone. No wonder no one on this board can get along with you.

The irony is thick here. Very thick.