Serious - and at the same time - Wet Blanket Questions...

[Maroon Eagle]

So a lot of people here are happy we beat Texas A&M and moved the ball against the Aggies.

I didn't see the game but caught the highlights which mentioned several times aTm was in man-to-man coverage and the passing game took advantage.

1. Didn't the Aggies see what happened to LSU last year when we played them and they played man-to-man?

2. Did the Aggies play man-to-man extensively or did they mix it up?

3. How many teams in the rest of the schedule will go back to eight men in coverage?

 

[PBRME]

1. yes.
2. They showed pressure and dropped 8 through most of the game.
3. All.

 

[Dawgg]

So a lot of people here are happy we beat Texas A&M and moved the ball against the Aggies.

I didn't see the game but caught the highlights which mentioned several times aTm was in man-to-man coverage and the passing game took advantage.

1. Didn't the Aggies see what happened to LSU last year when we played them and they played man-to-man?

2. Did the Aggies play man-to-man extensively or did they mix it up?

3. How many teams in the rest of the schedule will go back to eight men in coverage?

Re: 2 - There was some zone, but Rogers did the best job of his State career in finding open receivers.

 

[Drebin]

So a lot of people here are happy we beat Texas A&M and moved the ball against the Aggies.

I didn't see the game but caught the highlights which mentioned several times aTm was in man-to-man coverage and the passing game took advantage.

1. Didn't the Aggies see what happened to LSU last year when we played them and they played man-to-man?

2. Did the Aggies play man-to-man extensively or did they mix it up?

3. How many teams in the rest of the schedule will go back to eight men in coverage?

Aggies played mostly zone. They went man a handful of times and got burned pretty good.

"Drop 8" is an overexaggerated narrative to criticize Leach. Most everyone will do it some depending on down and distance, but nobody, short of Arkansas, will do it exclusively. Most of the teams we've played have done it strategically, mixed in with man/zone combos. Memphis played mostly man/zone with a linebacker picking up our tailback out of the backfield man to man on most plays, which is why that check down usually went nowhere against them.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

See video. Matt Wyatt can answer all of these questions.

 

[thatsbaseball]

The Aggies got frustrated because we were nickel and diming them to death when they were in zone. They played some man and got burned. Chizik explained this real well post game and pointed out that it was one Leach's base philosophies for the air raid. He later went on to say the offense can handle any situation thrown at it when it's run properly....as I posted before Chizic is a big Leach fan.

 

[8dog]

I count 4 of 7 throws he broke down were against man. It was a puzzling gameplan.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Aggies played mostly zone. They went man a handful of times and got burned pretty good.

"Drop 8" is an overexaggerated narrative to criticize Leach. Most everyone will do it some depending on down and distance, but nobody, short of Arkansas, will do it exclusively. Most of the teams we've played have done it strategically, mixed in with man/zone combos. Memphis played mostly man/zone with a linebacker picking up our tailback out of the backfield man to man on most plays, which is why that check down usually went nowhere against them.

And people forget that we looked so bad against Arkansas mainly due to Costello throwing picks. That box score looked a lot like LSU and Memphis.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Thanks, y'all, for the responses. I was wondering and curious as to the Aggies' defensive mix.

 

[Seinfeld]

I honestly feel that A&M was a near replica of LSU with one exception. We didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot on multiple occasions with bone headed mental mistakes

 

[Smoked Toag]

The Aggies got frustrated because we were nickel and diming them to death when they were in zone. They played some man and got burned. Chizik explained this real well post game and pointed out that it was one Leach's base philosophies for the air raid. He later went on to say the offense can handle any situation thrown at it when it's run properly....as I posted before Chizic is a big Leach fan.

Yep. The 'Leach can't handle drop 8' mantra needs to die, and die a quick death.

The only true concern regarding the Air Raid is whether or not we can consistently attract the type of players it needs. Not whether or not Leach can handle a certain scheme.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

I honestly feel that A&M was a near replica of LSU with one exception. We didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot on multiple occasions with bone headed mental mistakes

I would agree for the most part. There were a few differences though. We played on the road, Tamu right now seems to have a better defense, we had drives all game long and there were more big plays on offense. It was just enough improvement to eek out a win and could have been better if Ruiz was playing.

This team has been close all season and finally got there. No massive improvement, just little tweaks here and there.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

The Air Raid has an answer for every defense when ran properly by experienced players. The Air Raid can for the most part dictate what the defense does when executed properly. And Matt Wyatt does an excellent job of breaking plays down and providing intelligent commentary. He actually knows what he is looking at. But I will also say this scheme is a disaster with a bad QB, bad O line, bad receivers. But really what scheme isn't??

 

[johnson86-1]

Yep. The 'Leach can't handle drop 8' mantra needs to die, and die a quick death.

The only true concern regarding the Air Raid is whether or not we can consistently attract the type of players it needs. Not whether or not Leach can handle a certain scheme.

People have taken two situations where the air raid won't work against a 3-8 and extrapolated to any and all 3-8's. I know the PAC12 isn't great football, but it's stupid to think that nobody in the PAC12 ever bothered to watch the apple cup and copy their defense.

The air raid absolutely will not work when the other team can drop 8 and get pressure with 3. I'm not sure any offensive scheme is going to work if the other team has a DL that can beat your OL rushing 3.

The other time the 3-8 works really well is if you can't execute at a high level, because then you can't march down the field taking four to eight yard passes. You eventually make a mistake and get behind the chains. This was us basically all of last year. This is sort of us this year. Hopefully, we will continue to get better and teams simply won't be able to afford to sit there in a 3-8. We're almost to that level right now I think.

 

[MSUDC11]

The big thing for me is that we seem to have clearly gotten better at the whole dink and dunk thing, even if we end up still having to do it a lot. Last year we were struggling to get first downs, much less touchdowns. We have at least shown an ability to move the ball that we rarely showed last year. We can certainly be better at finishing off drives and getting more points. But I think there was a fear after our first three games that we would go right back to looking how we looked last year once SEC play rolled around. Instead we've actually been better on offense in conference play than we were in the three non-conference games.

 

[wsjmsu75]

I honestly feel that A&M was a near replica of LSU with one exception. We didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot on multiple occasions with bone headed mental mistakes

Those three big scoring plays our defense gave up in the second half were the story of the LSU game.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

The Aggies got frustrated because we were nickel and diming them to death when they were in zone. They played some man and got burned. Chizik explained this real well post game and pointed out that it was one Leach's base philosophies for the air raid. He later went on to say the offense can handle any situation thrown at it when it's run properly....as I posted before Chizic is a big Leach fan.

Dawgstudent called it a few weeks ago. Rogers bored them to death. Elko felt like he had to force some action and started blitzing. That cost them.

I have been down on Leach because I feel his stubborn mother17er attitude will cost us games... And it still probably will. But the Aggies are in absolute panic mode. Leach and Rogers broke their spirits. This game is bigger for me personally than the Egg Bowl ever will be... Someone get me an eye patch.

 

[missouridawg]

I count 4 of 7 throws he broke down were against man. It was a puzzling gameplan.

I texted some friends during the game that Elko should be fired for even calling one man defensive play against us. Completely baffling that someone as good as he is thought he could man up against this scheme.

 

[KingBarkus]

One of the best things (for me) Saturday night happened when we RAN the clock out late. Our OL mashed their tired DL into a game-ending first down.

p.s. Cole Cubelic said he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up 2nd or 3rd in the West. I don't know about that.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

Yep. The 'Leach can't handle drop 8' mantra needs to die, and die a quick death.

The only true concern regarding the Air Raid is whether or not we can consistently attract the type of players it needs. Not whether or not Leach can handle a certain scheme.

^^^This^^^

It is not whether this system can work. I say it absolutely can work against any defense, dropping 8 or not. State is still missing out on points every game do to drops, missed open routes, fumbles, penalties, etc.. but they are getting better every week. There is no doubt in my mind that this offense will work.

My question is: Can we get the players to beat top level Sec talent? I think the answer is yes, but I still have my concerns. I think we can get the defensive players, State has shown that for years. On offense, I think we can get the OL, RB and QB's to make it work but the WR's are the question for me. Leach will attract a QB or several.

Mississippi has the athletes for WR's but they are not polished at catching the ball and running routes like you see in some places. The good to great WR athletes we have in Mississippi are not ready to produce the consistency required because they have not seen the reps that guys get playing tons of 7 on 7 passing drills. He can get a QB, that's only 1 or 2 guys but a dozen WR's? That's where we have to get better. I am hoping that the guys we have, which are plenty athletic will gain that consistency. It helps that Polk and Calvin are both doing well and their example will help the others learn. Plus, getting a transfer will be easier in the future after their success.

This offense can work and it will work but don't expect it to be perfect every week. While this offense is easy to learn, it's hard as heck to run right.

 

[Drebin]

One of the best things (for me) Saturday night happened when we RAN the clock out late. Our OL mashed their tired DL into a game-ending first down.

p.s. Cole Cubelic said he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up 2nd or 3rd in the West. I don't know about that.

I don't know about that either. But I do think we're better than people think.

 

[Smoked Toag]

^^^This^^^

It is not whether this system can work. I say it absolutely can work against any defense, dropping 8 or not. State is still missing out on points every game do to drops, missed open routes, fumbles, penalties, etc.. but they are getting better every week. There is no doubt in my mind that this offense will work.

My question is: Can we get the players to beat top level Sec talent? I think the answer is yes, but I still have my concerns. I think we can get the defensive players, State has shown that for years. On offense, I think we can get the OL, RB and QB's to make it work but the WR's are the question for me. Leach will attract a QB or several.

Mississippi has the athletes for WR's but they are not polished at catching the ball and running routes like you see in some places. The good to great WR athletes we have in Mississippi are not ready to produce the consistency required because they have not seen the reps that guys get playing tons of 7 on 7 passing drills. He can get a QB, that's only 1 or 2 guys but a dozen WR's? That's where we have to get better. I am hoping that the guys we have, which are plenty athletic will gain that consistency. It helps that Polk and Calvin are both doing well and their example will help the others learn. Plus, getting a transfer will be easier in the future after their success.

This offense can work and it will work but don't expect it to be perfect every week. While this offense is easy to learn, it's hard as heck to run right.

If we do, it will be based on Leach's name cache. Similarly to how Spurrier did it at South Carolina.

 

[GloryDawg]

As Will and the WR's gets better, defense is going to have to try something. They can't continue to give State 4 to 5 yards a plays. Next thing you know they are on the five yard line. If you rush 4 or 5 he dings you for a 20 yard gain. This offense is going to be trouble for other defenses as it gets better. The drop 8 isn't going to work in the future and we are starting to see that now.

 

[Arthur2478]

Those three big scoring plays our defense gave up in the second half were the story of the LSU game.

100% it was. Half of LSU's total offense came off 3 plays. Also, we scored more offensive points vs LSU than we did vs A&M. The defensive mistakes really killed us vs LSU.

 

[Seinfeld]

Exactly, and then we just compounded it with things like horribly timed penalties and drops. I’m not one that will ever believe that a football team on any level can just clean up everything, but there’s a big difference between your daughter bringing your truck home with a scratch on the door and the kid running it into a stop sign.

We’ve got to stop driving our own bus off the road, and I think we’ve got ample proof that we can win games if we stop doing that

 

[MagnoliaHunter]

I think the MS athletic un-polished guys will work out if we can get them. As we go forward with the Sophomores that we have now getting better, we can get some good athletes who will have time to sit behind the current guys and learn what it takes to be good in this system.

 

[johnson86-1]

One of the best things (for me) Saturday night happened when we RAN the clock out late. Our OL mashed their tired DL into a game-ending first down.

p.s. Cole Cubelic said he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up 2nd or 3rd in the West. I don't know about that.

I could see us end up being the 2nd or 3rd best team in the West by the end of the year. There's just not a really good 2nd team in the West this year so even though we have problems, if we continue to get better, I could see us ending up as the second best, even if that's not what I would predict to happen. Regardless, I think everybody after Bama is going to be reasonably close together this year. And there are going to be a lot of 4-4 and 3-5 records in the West.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

The O-line play was huge in that game. They were able to effectively hold off the 3 man rush, allowing the dink and dunk down the field. Ramping up the pressure left somebody open, and our QB was reading that better than he has. That was a frustrated defense.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

The whole offense is improving but it was just a 2 point win. We are still a work in progress. I think we should be 5 and 0 but we still make too many mistakes. Now that we won one some folks are talking about winning out except Bama. Its possible but highly improbable. We are still gonna lay an egg, make mistakes, whatever. I'm optimistic as usual but really looking forward to next year at this point. I mean, it was just aTm

 

[oxfordrebel22]

Re: 2 - There was some zone, but Rogers did the best job of his State career in finding open receivers.

Ive watched a lot of snaps in Leach’s tenure at MSU. But I don’t want every snap, or even every game. But, obviously due to the rivalry, I probably watch MSU as much as any team that isn’t Ole Miss. And I think there’s some value in having an “outside” opinion, that’s somewhat familiar with the program. And after watching 75% or so of A&M game, here are my takeaways, with every effort to remove any bias:

1. MSU was the better team and dominated the game more than the final score showed; that’s seemingly a trend with this MSU team, that the scoreboard doesn’t accurately reflect what you see during the game. And I’m not sure what to make of that? You could argue it’s great, or argue it’s bad, and both arguments be valid.

2. Rogers looked the best I’ve ever seen him look. He was decisive. He was accurate. And he drove the ball down the field. He was in complete control of the game.

3. The OL is good. Charles Cross, in particular. (This may be where my bias shows up a little) I think y’all are going to miss him way more than you realize after this season. He was built for this offense. Leach and OL coach inherited a gem in him.

4. Your defense is in the top 20-25 in the country. If it could eliminate the explosive plays, it could be elite. But, that may just be the way it’s designed. Being aggressive lends itself to big plays both ways. But your run D, especially, is salty.

5. This is the one that the fans that can’t understand any nuance will probably get mad at me about - Texas A&M has some pretty big issues. They’re in trouble. Their D will win them a few more games, and may win them a game in Oxford. But they aren’t very good. Bjork has to be sweating bullets over Jimbo’s contract. I know they’re loaded, but that’s a MONSTROUS contract. All guaranteed, too. Outside of Isaiah Spiller at RB, they are average or worse on offense. No imagination. No creativity.

6. I said before the Ole Miss @ Alabama and MSU @ A&M, in the “pivotal shift in MS” thread, that it scares me to death all the talking heads going ahead and chalking the Egg Bowl up to an Ole Miss win. That every year that happens, it seems like the other side wins. Well, I feel even worse about that after this past weekend. And it’s not really because of Ole Miss. Outside of the OL, my opinion on them didn’t really change. I think the OL is worse than I thought, but QB is even better than I thought.

It’s because of y’all. You’ve got a really good football team. You’ll probably drop a game you shouldn’t in the last 7, but you’ll absolutely beat another ranked team, too. As much as I’d love to be wrong, what Leach is trying to do is starting to take shape. And as Rogers grows in this system, it will get better. He’s going to shatter every SEC passing record that’s ever existed. Especially if he winds up playing 5 years, which is very, very possible.

You all have reason to be excited.

 

[thekimmer]

The air raid absolutely will not work when the other team can drop 8 and get pressure with 3. I'm not sure any offensive scheme is going to work if the other team has a DL that can beat your OL rushing 3.

This all day long! Dropping 8 players into pass coverage is really a high risk measure. You are committing so many defenders to pass coverage that you are CONCEEDING 4 or 5 yards per play with the strategy that the offense will eventually make a mistake and stop themselves or the O line is so bad that 5 can't protect the passer from 3. We have struggled with both issues but have begun to get it straightened out. If we can do this consistently nobody can stop us by exclusively playing drop 8 and will have to mix it up.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Coolest thing I learned from that is that receivers are changing routes based on reading the defense as zone or man. No wonder this offense takes a few years to grove, that's a complex dance and QB and receiver have to make the same call.

 

[MSUDC11]

I mean, it was just aTm

It was an SEC West road win against a team that is at worst going to win 6 or 7 games. Don’t take that crap for granted. We typically have lost way more of those kind of games than we have won, both historically and in recent history.

 

[wsjmsu75]

The whole offense is improving but it was just a 2 point win. We are still a work in progress. I think we should be 5 and 0 but we still make too many mistakes. Now that we won one some folks are talking about winning out except Bama. Its possible but highly improbable. We are still gonna lay an egg, make mistakes, whatever. I'm optimistic as usual but really looking forward to next year at this point. I mean, it was just aTm

Did that safety not count? 26 - 22 = 4. Plus, with our normal field goal kicker the margin probably would have been 10.

 

[UncleChuck]

One of the best things (for me) Saturday night happened when we RAN the clock out late. Our OL mashed their tired DL into a game-ending first down.

p.s. Cole Cubelic said he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up 2nd or 3rd in the West. I don't know about that.

Time of Possession domination was the most exciting thing to me coming out of this game. Seems like a big criticism of Leach is that he hangs his D out to dry because the offense scores so quickly or goes 3-and-out.

If we can have sustainable drives and keep even a roughly equal TOP, we can be dangerous.

One reason we could get that late push to run the clock our was because we had their three linemen running sideline to sideline all game chasing the 5yd routes where we sat in their zone.

Once we have players that have been in the system 4 years, this thing becomes much more interchangeable with players. We won't need elite talent to compete with elite teams.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Seems like a big criticism of Leach is that he hangs his D out to dry because the offense scores so quickly or goes 3-and-out.

This was never a concern for anyone who had half a brain and spent more than 30 seconds looking at Leach’s WSU statistics. That is my personal favorite false narrative in a long line of false narratives about this system.

His offense at WSU always kept his defense off the field better than anyone else in the Pac 12. And a Leach offense rarely goes 3-and-out. If you listen to a media member discuss this offense or our team, you can tell very quickly who actually knows what they’re talking about and who just parrots the narratives.

When we finally get this thing humming, we are going to be a thorn in the side of defenses with more talent. On the flip side, if we don’t execute on a given day we are going to get stopped by some mediocre defenses. This system neutralizes the talent on the field for both teams and makes the game a battle of execution in space.

 

[boatsandhoes]

^^^Agree with this. We started running a lot of little 5 yard hitch’s in the holes of the zone, long hand off’s. We’d get 5-6-7 yards each time. You can’t survive those 1,000 paper cuts, you have to get out of it some.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

My point is that all of these new fans of Leach and Rogers were dogging them out last week for losing to LSU and now they are praising the system and QB. Its improving every week. We won a game. Its not perfected yet so don't get too pumped up. But these guys are gonna be around a long time and just getting better and better. It won't be too long before we are putting up some big points. But we are still improving and hopefully we can win 7 or 8 this year. Get a decent bowl game so we can get that extra practice time. Maybe 9 or 10 next year.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

My point is that all of these new fans of Leach and Rogers were dogging them out last week for losing to LSU and now they are praising the system and QB. Its improving every week. We won a game. Its not perfected yet so don't get too pumped up. But these guys are gonna be around a long time and just getting better and better. It won't be too long before we are putting up some big points. But we are still improving and hopefully we can win 7 or 8 this year. Get a decent bowl game so we can get that extra practice time. Maybe 9 or 10 next year.

Yeah we are taking steps forward but this offense is still far from a finished product. I still anticipate there being growing pains in the 2nd half of the season. Progress doesn’t happen in a straight upward line.

The people who make emotional, big picture reactions to every game could be in for some whiplashes. It honestly would not shock me if both the Bama and Vandy games are still within doubt to a certain extent going to the fourth quarter.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Exactly. I thought we played fairly decent offensively against LSU. But like MBSH said, if you study ML TT and WSU teams you already know what to expect. Its the same story at each place. He has to have the right QB running it and it takes a little while to all come together and then it operates itself. Its a proven system.