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See that Devante Kincade

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Dogariffic

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The Grambling Qb....who plays on today's Celebration Bowl..... threw for 2957 yards and 33 tds with only 6 ints.
And who said Freeze could not develop a Qb!!!!
Oh wait! He only had this sort of success after leaving tsun!
Never mind......
 
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JungRebel

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Aug 23, 2012
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Mullen will beat Saban before you admit that Freeze has anything to do with the success of Ole Miss quarterbacks.
 
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notoriousD_O_G

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I don't think you see a huge jump like we saw with Dak at Ole Miss but Freeze gets solid play out of his QBs. Bo Wallace put up great numbers and he was no where near an elite talent qhen he got to Ole Miss.
 
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Cubswillwinitonedaydawg

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notoriousD_O_G said:
I don't think you see a huge jump like we saw with Dak at Ole Miss but Freeze gets solid play out of his QBs. Bo Wallace put up great numbers and he was no where near an elite talent qhen he got to Ole Miss.
Click to expand...

Great numbers? You mean his 41 career interceptions? I think him and Kelly both did pretty well, but both were pretty solid when they got there. Bo broke a couple national juco records I think, so it's not like he was a project.
 
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JungRebel

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Honest questions; I'm not trying to be an ******* with all these, or necessarily argue Freeze is a good QB coach, I just want use these to examine some assumptions we make as fans.

How do you judge 'better'? Team wins or individual statistics? Why did Tim Tebow have his career year statistically as a sophomore and not as a junior or senior? Can we ever (and if so, how?) separate the individual performance of a football player from the rest of his team?

Barry Brunetti: Check his senior statistics out; and, having watched every game we played that year, I can assure you it wasn't all in garbage time.

How do you know Wallace or Kelly didn't get better under Freeze when they got to Ole Miss? Neither of them had played a meaningful college game before coming to Ole Miss. We have no idea what sort of QBs they were when they got to OM. Kelly had incredible arm talent, Bo had nothing like it, but Bo did fit HF's system.

Kelly had played the meat of the schedule, got injured; perhaps his statistics would've been better, ultimately, than last year. (FTR I think Fitzgerald should have been 1st team all SEC. I also think losing your LT and #1 WR will hurt any QB—see Jevan Snead.)

Kincade was at Ole Miss for two years before he started tearing up the shittiest conference in FCS, as if that means anything at all, so did he progress while he was here or not? How can we know?

Freeze isn't even the QBs coach...

I'm not saying Freeze is some QB guru, but you've got four players to look at, Wallace, Kelly, Brunetti, and Kincade. If you want to think Freeze is an idiot you'll chalk their success up to their natural talent and the talent around them. If you want to think Freeze knows something you'll say he developed them. The truth is there are too many factors to claim to know the truth about each or any of the situations, so I don't make either claim. All I said was there were some people, e.g. the OP, who will never admit that Freeze is a competent developer of quarterbacks.
 
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SyonaraStanz

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This is all a moot point going forward because Hue is less than a year away from devoting 100% of his time to his traveling tent revival.
 
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notoriousD_O_G

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Cubswillwinitonedaydawg said:
Great numbers? You mean his 41 career interceptions? I think him and Kelly both did pretty well, but both were pretty solid when they got there. Bo broke a couple national juco records I think, so it's not like he was a project.
Click to expand...

Bo had a 140 career passer rating. He was a good QB at OM. QB has never been Freezes problem. If you want to critize his development look at the other side of the ball. 5 seasons and several top recruiting classes but no defensive depth.
 
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LTblows

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I would argue that a JuCo national championship is a meaningful college game, but that's just me.
 
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Miketice

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I would say he had more to do with Wallace and Kincade than Brunetti , and Kelly. But I'm not even sure how much he had to do with them.
 
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JungRebel

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That was a throwback to that time you titled a post "Honest questions" and then only asked one question.*
 
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JungRebel

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Unfortunately the success Brunetti had is probably what led Freeze to think the Pellerin package would work against any team not named Memphis. We will leave aside the Liggins package as one of those things coaches do apparently just to piss fans off (there is no other discernible 'reason'), ala Holloway up the middle.
 
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johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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JungRebel said:
Honest questions; I'm not trying to be an ******* with all these, or necessarily argue Freeze is a good QB coach, I just want use these to examine some assumptions we make as fans.

How do you judge 'better'? Team wins or individual statistics? Why did Tim Tebow have his career year statistically as a sophomore and not as a junior or senior? Can we ever (and if so, how?) separate the individual performance of a football player from the rest of his team?

Barry Brunetti: Check his senior statistics out; and, having watched every game we played that year, I can assure you it wasn't all in garbage time.

How do you know Wallace or Kelly didn't get better under Freeze when they got to Ole Miss? Neither of them had played a meaningful college game before coming to Ole Miss. We have no idea what sort of QBs they were when they got to OM. Kelly had incredible arm talent, Bo had nothing like it, but Bo did fit HF's system.

Kelly had played the meat of the schedule, got injured; perhaps his statistics would've been better, ultimately, than last year. (FTR I think Fitzgerald should have been 1st team all SEC. I also think losing your LT and #1 WR will hurt any QB—see Jevan Snead.)

Kincade was at Ole Miss for two years before he started tearing up the shittiest conference in FCS, as if that means anything at all, so did he progress while he was here or not? How can we know?

Freeze isn't even the QBs coach...

I'm not saying Freeze is some QB guru, but you've got four players to look at, Wallace, Kelly, Brunetti, and Kincade. If you want to think Freeze is an idiot you'll chalk their success up to their natural talent and the talent around them. If you want to think Freeze knows something you'll say he developed them. The truth is there are too many factors to claim to know the truth about each or any of the situations, so I don't make either claim. All I said was there were some people, e.g. the OP, who will never admit that Freeze is a competent developer of quarterbacks.
Click to expand...

freeze coaches qbs for his system and it seems like he deos a decent job with that. He took a qb with a ten cent head and ten cent arm in bo Wallace and got a lot of production out of him. Not sure a lot of coaches out there could have done any better. He took a qb with a ten cent head and million dollar arm in Kelly and Got a lot of production out of him, although granted he was as a pretty finished product when he got him. He hasn't been able to use other players, but it's not like qb has ever killed them other than when bad bo was playing.
 
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JungRebel

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This typo talk is post hoc; I don't believe for one second that you understand the difference between singular and plural?**
 
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KurtRambis4

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This throwback talk is post hoc.

I don't believe for one second you understand the difference between a question and a response.**
 
The Peeper

The Peeper

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Jung, how do you interpret the fact that none of those 4 you named were Black Bears for 4 years? Then you can also throw in Snead, Massoli, who else am I missing? There's a development problem right there
 
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JungRebel

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We've sought out and started the best available player for the last thirteen years. I prefer to have a situation where the QB starts his first game as a sophomore and gets three years, like Fitzgerald this year and, roughly, like Patterson will be next year, but at the same time MSU was one Cam Newton away from a national championship and I don't think anyone on this board would have worried where he came from had he come to MSU. If you really want to go down the history of the last thirteen years we'll be talking about a lot of coaching changes that led to bad hires. All QBs at OM during Orgeron's tenure had about as good a chance of being productive as all QBs MSU had during the Croom era. Houston Nutt is the only person on the planet who would argue that Houston Nutt has a clue when it comes to recruiting or coaching quarterbacks (or anything else other than running an all-SEC back to death). So Freeze came in and hit the JUCO ranks and found Bo, which worked out. Buchanan was never an SEC talent no matter what the recruiting services said. Kincaid obviously had potential but who here would take him over Chad Kelly?

The only part of this argument I've ever understood is the desire to have a QB start for the team for three years, but even then it's no guarantee of success. This will be a discussion worth having after we see what Patterson does while at OM. So I interpret it like this: We fired a good coach and made two awful hires after that, and this is enough to set a program back ten years. Despite that we've managed four seasons of nine or more wins under three different QBs. If the NCAA doesn't hammer us I think you'll see us take a more traditional path when recruiting QBs.
 
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