Wrong. IF it happens, it'll be the PAC-12. As patdog said, the population boom is what's ultimately causing the SEC to dominate. And there's a population boom out west right now. Lots of talent out there. I predict they will eventually match the SEC in overall sports achievements.
SEC Coaches salaries....
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Wrong. IF it happens, it'll be the PAC-12. As patdog said, the population boom is what's ultimately causing the SEC to dominate. And there's a population boom out west right now. Lots of talent out there. I predict they will eventually match the SEC in overall sports achievements.
You could easily argue that Bama was better in 2009 than they are now. I for one believe that.
They really shouldn't have even played for the title in 2011.
Urban was 65-15 overall and 36-12 in the SEC at Florida, with 2 national championships in 5 seasons.
Saban is 68-13 overall and 39-9 in the SEC at Alabama, with 3 national championships in 5 seasons.
So a 3 game difference. It ain't that damn much. Yeah, Urban didn't have Saban to deal with in 2 of his years, but Saban also didn't have Urban to deal with in the last 2 years.
Let's put this argument to bed. Saban is going to hit his downside too, then people will say he's no good.
They really shouldn't have even played for the title in 2011.
Urban was 65-15 overall and 36-12 in the SEC at Florida, with 2 national championships in 5 seasons.
Saban is 68-13 overall and 39-9 in the SEC at Alabama, with 3 national championships in 5 seasons.
So a 3 game difference. It ain't that damn much. Yeah, Urban didn't have Saban to deal with in 2 of his years, but Saban also didn't have Urban to deal with in the last 2 years.
Let's put this argument to bed. Saban is going to hit his downside too, then people will say he's no good.
I wonder if saban makes another run at the nfl. As good as he is, it has to eat him up that he didnt succeed. Bc he didn't succeed in the nfl, I have to rank jimmy Johnson as a better coach. Jimmy only got 1 national title, but he got 2 Super Bowls also. I have to believe if jimmy stayed at Miami, he would've racked up several more titles
I sort of feel bad for Missouri. Great coach in a CRAPTASTIC division but I don't think he'll have too much success in the SEC. I don't think he lasts past 2013.
Maybe when Kiffin gets canned we can see the game Ive always wanted to see.. Undefeated USC vs undefeated SEC team. USC has the talent to win. B1G doesnt.. Warm climate> cold climate
most of you wouldn't be very good in business
the "we should be paying him 170k more NOW" argument is crazy.
you are aware that he is currently coaching for us for what we are paying for. if you pay him 170k more this year, you wouldn't get anything extra on the field.
hes also a first year DC for us. He was splitting DC duties and that is why his pay was so low.
if he is extremely successful, he will get a bump. don't worry about that
the "we should be paying him 170k more NOW" argument is crazy.
you are aware that he is currently coaching for us for what we are paying for. if you pay him 170k more this year, you wouldn't get anything extra on the field.
hes also a first year DC for us. He was splitting DC duties and that is why his pay was so low.
if he is extremely successful, he will get a bump. don't worry about that
Of course we're going to worry about that. Why is it that Chris Wison didn't get a bump when he became the full-time DC? Why didn't he get a bump after his first year -- which saw us play Alabama and LSU better than anyone else all year -- and improve in many statistical metrics compared to Diaz's defense? Simple fact is that his defens played good enough to beat both of those teams in year 1. At least until the very end. We've got a very long history of paying head coaches pretty well -- and completely screwing assistant coaches. Now, in Wilson's case, he ended up proving he wasn't worth it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have been paying him until that time though.
"Wouldn't be very good in business" -- I don't know about that. When you take a big promotion -- where you go from being low key and behind the scenes -- to the man in charge with YOUR *** on the line(in the very immediate sense dealing with Mullen and defense), you generally expect a nice raise to go along with the new risk in the real world. And if you take the position without one, you are doing it ONLY for the experience and are looking, from day 1, to parlay that into an equal job where you are actually appreciated and taken care of monetarily.
I'm very worried about it that when he has a Diaz-esque defense this year, he's gone at the first good opportunity(which he will have if he's good). If I were him, I'd be bitter that I'm doing the SAME job as 13 others in the league -- for an average of $338K less. You read that right. He's doing the same job for under half the league average. That's highway robbery -- and we should be ashamed.
i'll address it a few at a time
defense of us not paying CHRIS WILSON enough?? a vastly overrated DC who proved himself not able to handle the job? If anything, I think this argument works in my favor. Hes a testament to us testing the waters to make sure that we are paying him according to his results. He didn't leave town because we were underpaying him. So, we didn't lose him because of pay. Why eat up extra money just to send it for the hell of it?
didn't Wilson get a raise? i'm comfused here..... it just wasn't as big as YOU expected. He also got mass amounts of performance based incentives thrown in. Some he received. Some he did not. But, i'd be shocked if there wasn't a vast difference in what he was paid the year before.
why the hell is it that all of you think we wouldn't offer him a raise as well? If he has a great year, why do you believe EVERYONE BUT US would offer him a raise? That's asisnine.
Why do you think we didn't offer a raise to Diaz? We couldn't have kept him if we wanted to because we couldn't pay him what Texas did. Manny is making $625k plus incentives.
NOT TO MENTION the fact that his defense gave up THIRTY FIVE POINT THREE POINTS A GAME IN CONFERENCE PLAY!!!
This goes right back to our procedure of making sure the guy is worth it before we pay himi.
thanks for making my points engie
defense of us not paying CHRIS WILSON enough?? a vastly overrated DC who proved himself not able to handle the job? If anything, I think this argument works in my favor. Hes a testament to us testing the waters to make sure that we are paying him according to his results. He didn't leave town because we were underpaying him. So, we didn't lose him because of pay. Why eat up extra money just to send it for the hell of it?
didn't Wilson get a raise? i'm comfused here..... it just wasn't as big as YOU expected. He also got mass amounts of performance based incentives thrown in. Some he received. Some he did not. But, i'd be shocked if there wasn't a vast difference in what he was paid the year before.
why the hell is it that all of you think we wouldn't offer him a raise as well? If he has a great year, why do you believe EVERYONE BUT US would offer him a raise? That's asisnine.
Why do you think we didn't offer a raise to Diaz? We couldn't have kept him if we wanted to because we couldn't pay him what Texas did. Manny is making $625k plus incentives.
NOT TO MENTION the fact that his defense gave up THIRTY FIVE POINT THREE POINTS A GAME IN CONFERENCE PLAY!!!
This goes right back to our procedure of making sure the guy is worth it before we pay himi.
thanks for making my points engie
Agreed. Collins doesn't get a raise until he shows he worth it. Just like in the business world, you don't get a raise until you do something to warrant it, or someone somewhere else is willing to give you one.
It's useless arguing with engie, msudawg12. He means well, he just doesn't have that real-world common sense thing yet. I'm guessing he's about 23-25 and still thinks he runs ****.
It's useless arguing with engie, msudawg12. He means well, he just doesn't have that real-world common sense thing yet. I'm guessing he's about 23-25 and still thinks he runs ****.
23-25? LOL.
What have the rest of these DCs "proven"? The simple fact is that IN THE REAL WORLD(which is the comparison made), when you get a big promotion, take on 10x the responsibility, you get PAID for your efforts. Collins isn't.
We know what we know about Wilson with HINDSIGHT. Again, he was good in year 1. Very good. At least statistically.
We lost him because we got rid of him -- after he sucked in year 2 -- after we refused to pay him. What's the cause and what's the effect?
How is he a "testament" to anything other than our administration wanting to be a big boy without paying assistants like a big boy.
I don't care what examples you make -- there is NO EXCUSE for paying a DC almost $200k less than ANY OTHER PEER in the entire conference. NO EXCUSE. Doesn't matter if "he's worth it or not" or "first year" or not. It's the principle of it. There's a helluva lot of DCs in this conference that haven't proven a damn thing yet.
Did he? For how much? $25k? So, he was just paid the least in the conference by $125k then at that point? Sounds like a real bargain for him.**
Because we have zero history of actually taking care of assistant coaches. Zero. And we lose them. Disgruntled, underpaid employees tend to semiconsciously underperform on their jobs as well.
We could give Collins a 40% raise and he would STILL be the lowest-paid DC in the SEC. How can you possibly find this acceptable? Put yourself in his shoes.
So, we can't pay $625k to keep a badass DC? Really? Yeah, Poor Ole MSU**
FWIW, Diaz was gone either way and that's not my point. But the fact that you think $625 is pricing us out of the game is troubling to say the least.
Meanwhile, Ole Miss is paying $550k for a has-been Joe Lee clone that's been fired multiple times before and doesn't do jack crap on the recruiting trail -- on the heels of paying Tyrone Nix $500k. And we're paying a former Broyles finalist for the nation's top assistant $325k. Sorry -- that's a problem.
Whose? Manny's?
Again. ********. When you pay 2/3 of everyone else in the real world, you get 2/3 of everyone else. If Collins is good, he's out the door so quick it will blow everyone's mind. Would have lost him last year as a DC to Conference USA if Wilson had stayed. You've got to VALUE your employees more than someone else does. Underpaying them up front does not project that we value them at all.
I get your point. I just think it's a really, really Templetonish point.
Keep paying half -- and in the end we'll get half.
And you know there are hotshot DCs out there all over the place chomping at the bit to come make $325k at MSU** Of course, we'll have to hire another "up and comer" which is hit-and-miss as hell -- and hope for the best -- and when he gives it to us, he'll be gone in 1-2 years as well.
which makes us look smart for not wasting 200k.....
this is crazy! that's saying "Hey, I can have this ice cream cone for $1 but since everyone else is paying $5 for their ice cream cone, I should at least pay $3 for mine!
what kind of ridiculous logic is that??
If we can get the exact coordinator we have for 200k then get him for 200 not 400. seriously. wtf
sure sounds like a bargain for us though!
so youre admitting they underperform but trying to justify a raise?? bad negotiation strategy.
his shoes decided to come here and take that pay. sounds like we had him pegged perfect
I don't think hes a badass DC. I think it was a flash in the pan of luck. did you see my stat on how many points he gave up per conference game? 35.3!!
again you are proving my point. they're paying him that much money for a guy that underperforms and we are getting a guy that can exceed his performance for less. that's what you WANT.
we will offer him a raise when he performs as well. He can also make well over his "salary" with his incentives which is the type of payplan that drives PERFORMANCE
Fify. We wipe our *** with $200k at this point -- it's not worth the perception hit that we take by nickel and diming these coaches.
Actually, it's nothing AT ALL like that. And making the analogy is ridiculous. Why go out and buy a prime steak -- when you can get one at any Waffle House for $9.99?!?1. You get what you pay for.
You don't seem to know the difference between "get" and "keep". You'll probably be the first one screaming the sky is falling in January when Collins is out of here and half of our 'crootin class is wavering. "But we counter-offered him". Yeah -- AFTER he took another interview. If we paid him what he was worth in the first place, would he be taking that interview? And would teams be so confident they could take him? Probably not, huh?
Again -- MSU is printing money these days. We spent $75million on a stadium we could have conceivably "expanded" for $10mil. And you are REALLY in favor of nickel and diming assistant coaches over a couple hundred K instead of just giving them what they are worth in a competitive marketplace, thus making them then A) less likely to be looking for jobs and putting their names out there and B) other teams less likely to make offers when the guys are already making their true value in the open market. Much like Mullen. You don't think he'd be getting hella offers all around the country if he was still making $1.2million at MSU? I can guarantee you that he'd already be gone. How is the assistant situation any different?
We've had a CONSTANT revolving door at DC under Mullen. Only on #4 in 5 years, after all...
Huh?
And they will choose to leave at the FIRST decent opportunity too -- if we don't show him an appreciation monetarily -- which we haven't thusfar.
I've been through this same scenario in my personal life...
Accepted a job for a company where I was underpaid because I loved the work.
Got "promoted" -- became responsible for a dozen people -- got NO notable raise. Continued to excel and set efficiency records despite being somewhat bitter about it. Got another job offer for significantly more money elsewhere. My company offered to match it. I took the new job. Why? They recognized my value up front. They were pro-active, not reactive. That is the type of company that I want to work for. Not the one that is going to nickel and dime me to death until they realize they are about to lose me.
Again -- who?
Sure thing, LT
Anotherwords -- you are in favor of counteroffering when he puts together a top 25 defense this year and a big boy comes calling. I've already established why that is a bad idea.
Everyone here thinks the sky is falling when our recruits visit Ole Miss -- but you practically encourage our assistants to visit elsewhere? And you don't see the double-standard? How do you prevent it? You pay them what they are worth up front and otherwise keep them happy.
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