Scouting the CHeats.

[dukiejay]

I see UNC's inside game as too suspect to make them a final four team, no matter how much their perimeter people help. Its just not Roy's type of team w/experienced bigs on the inside.

I dont care how good Luke Maye plays or hustles, he'll take quite the pounding from our bigs IMO. That was a huge shot he hit against Ky too, but it was hardly Latteneresque....He didnt even have time to think about it, which IMO aided its chances of going in hoop....Cant wait til Carter jams on him...OFC

Duke doesn't have the type of shooters on this year's team that they've had in the past, either. And we both know shooting has been a staple at Duke on all of their successful teams. However, I don't think that eliminates us from Final Four consideration.

Where Duke has a decided advantage on UNC is from a pure talent standpoint. We're more talented...but I'd argue we were more 'talented' than them last season too. However, when we speak of unknowns, Duke has a lot of them, as well. I love Javin. I think Jordan Tucker can have four great years at Duke. Bolden's size, length and pedigree make him look like a monster. But what do those three players all have in common? None of them have been productive at the college level.

 

[hart2chesson]

Clearly stated that he has had three incredibly stupid incidents that started this but the reaction to this imo is twofold.The first is that he plays for Duke,secondly he is white.In any other scenario these incidents would be quickly forgotten

Amen on BOTH COUNTS!,OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

Duke doesn't have the type of shooters on this year's team that they've had in the past, either. And we both know shooting has been a staple at Duke on all of their successful teams. However, I don't think that eliminates us from Final Four consideration.

Where Duke has a decided advantage on UNC is from a pure talent standpoint. We're more talented...but I'd argue we were more 'talented' than them last season too. However, when we speak of unknowns, Duke has a lot of them, as well. I love Javin. I think Jordan Tucker can have four great years at Duke. Bolden's size, length and pedigree make him look like a monster. But what do those three players all have in common? None of them have been productive at the college level.

Our "talent" certainly got the best of them 2 of 3 times last year. Sure its "unproven" but i am much more comfortable say with a Bagley than I would be say, a Garrison Brooks...OFC

 

[dukiejay]

Clearly stated that he has had three incredibly stupid incidents that started this but the reaction to this imo is twofold.The first is that he plays for Duke,secondly he is white.In any other scenario these incidents would be quickly forgotten

This I can somewhat get behind. I was going to post about the 'Duke' thing in my last post to you, but didn't.

Here's the reality....and it's both good and bad. Duke is Duke. That means you're playing for the most visible college program in the country. It means you're playing for the face of college basketball. It means every game you play is on national television. There's more. While those are all viewed as positives, they're the kind of things that can come with negative connotations, as well. Good or bad, things at Duke will be scrutinized. That comes with the territory. That's why I'll maintain, until I'm blue in the face, that this was brought on by Grayson.

 

[dukiejay]

Our "talent" certainly got the best of them 2 of 3 times last year. Sure its "unproven" but i am much more comfortable say with a Bagley than I would be say, a Garrison Brooks...OFC

I would gladly trade one of those two wins, or even both, if it meant we had won our last game. But that wasn't my point....and I agree I'd take Bagley. Anyone with a pulse would. Having said that, we get one, and only one, shot with Bagley. UNC will likely get Brooks for four years.

To use a poker analogy, Duke has already pushed in all their chips before even being dealt their hand for the 2017-18 season. In all likelihood, the top six players on this year's Duke team are gone next season....and five of those six are still teenagers.

Again....we have the talent to do special things. Can we? We'll see.

 

[DukeDenver]

Disagree on Berry watch him carefully with him shoving people and getting on their face when their is any contact.If Allen did that their would be a national uproar

Allen does do that, and I like him too. It's no surprise that those two were good friends in high school. I like a player on my team that really pisses off the other side. Grayson went too far a few times, but he's got it under control now.

 

[dukiejay]

Allen does do that, and I like him too. It's no surprise that those two were good friends in high school. I like a player on my team that really pisses off the other side. Grayson went too far a few times, but he's got it under control now.

Well said. And I would add a lot of other players do that, as well.

 

[topps coach]

This I can somewhat get behind. I was going to post about the 'Duke' thing in my last post to you, but didn't.

Here's the reality....and it's both good and bad. Duke is Duke. That means you're playing for the most visible college program in the country. It means you're playing for the face of college basketball. It means every game you play is on national television. There's more. While those are all viewed as positives, they're the kind of things that can come with negative connotations, as well. Good or bad, things at Duke will be scrutinized. That comes with the territory. That's why I'll maintain, until I'm blue in the face, that this was brought on by Grayson.

Agree with everything you say but my point is that Grayson as evil incarnate is totally overboard and is a false narrative.He has taken far more abuse both physically and mentally than he has dished out

 

[dukiejay]

Agree with everything you say but my point is that Grayson as evil incarnate is totally overboard and is a false narrative.He has taken far more abuse both physically and mentally than he has dished out

For sure he has....but you said yourself, it was three times. Once and it's probably dismissed (except by a certain fanbase or two). Twice and it's a little more of an issue. Three times? That's excessive, IMO. He's been put through the ringer, I'll admit....but part of that comes from who he plays for, fair or not.

 

[hart2chesson]

I would gladly trade one of those two wins, or even both, if it meant we had won our last game. But that wasn't my point....and I agree I'd take Bagley. Anyone with a pulse would. Having said that, we get one, and only one, shot with Bagley. UNC will likely get Brooks for four years.

To use a poker analogy, Duke has already pushed in all their chips before even being dealt their hand for the 2017-18 season. In all likelihood, the top six players on this year's Duke team are gone next season....and five of those six are still teenagers.

Again....we have the talent to do special things. Can we? We'll see.

They can have Brooks for their 4 years, "gladly." I am confident K can come up with enough inside to offset the likes of the bigs they recruited this year. I see DeLaurier coming back next year, Vrank and I feel we will come up w/enough young talent inside as well.

I go ahead and "ante up" now for this year- feeling good about a "flush" of them this year...

OFC

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

Making light of your rival never seems wise.

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

This I can somewhat get behind. I was going to post about the 'Duke' thing in my last post to you, but didn't.

Here's the reality....and it's both good and bad. Duke is Duke. That means you're playing for the most visible college program in the country. It means you're playing for the face of college basketball. It means every game you play is on national television. There's more. While those are all viewed as positives, they're the kind of things that can come with negative connotations, as well. Good or bad, things at Duke will be scrutinized. That comes with the territory. That's why I'll maintain, until I'm blue in the face, that this was brought on by Grayson.

I would like to expand upon that:
1. Duke is a private school, that is often characterized as smart, smug, privileged, and disconnected.
2. I put more blame on Coach K for the Grayson debacle. His light reaction reinforced the first point.

 

[gottagonow]

How can UNC be a top 10-15 team and lose 9 or 10 games like everyone expects? I was one in the camp that was really surprised at what The Cheating Holes accomplished last season. They over accomplished as a team and thats a testament to good ole Roy and some timely luck. The fact that they were huge and so experienced up front with Meeks and Hicks and had a very good, not great PG and had some great luck in the tournament from a not so good Big Luke Maye brought them the golden nugget. I don't think for a second that Berry is a great player, very good but not great. Big Luke is not Larry Bird as some of the Tar Fools seem to think. Berry and the boys might really struggle this year without his supporting cast from last year and the jury is still out on most of their player. I just don't see them as being that tough this year. Hicks and Meeks were usually good and Bradley was huge at times for them. Those three will be harder for the Holes to replace than were Johnson and Paige a couple years ago.

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

Duke doesn't have the type of shooters on this year's team that they've had in the past, either. And we both know shooting has been a staple at Duke on all of their successful teams. However, I don't think that eliminates us from Final Four consideration.

Where Duke has a decided advantage on UNC is from a pure talent standpoint. We're more talented...but I'd argue we were more 'talented' than them last season too. However, when we speak of unknowns, Duke has a lot of them, as well. I love Javin. I think Jordan Tucker can have four great years at Duke. Bolden's size, length and pedigree make him look like a monster. But what do those three players all have in common? None of them have been productive at the college level.

I keep hearing that we will not be as good at shooting this year as we have in the past. I am trying to figure out how big the gap is.

So Grayson is a known source for points outside the arc. Is he the only one? Also, we talk a lot about scoring inside, but I think we are going to get more rebounds this season then we have average in prior seasons.

I'm just not buying that our 3 point will be all that off.

 

[gottagonow]

I would like to expand upon that:
1. Duke is a private school, that is often characterized as smart, smug, privileged, and disconnected.
2. I put more blame on Coach K for the Grayson debacle. His light reaction reinforced the first point.

Agreed, K should have suspended Grayson for no less than 3 games combined last season. Definitely the first time and I think it would have made us somewhat stronger in the tournament last year. We would all like to relive last season though.

 

[gottagonow]

I keep hearing that we will not be as good at shooting this year as we have in the past. I am trying to figure out how big the gap is.

So Grayson is a known source for points outside the arc. Is he the only one? Also, we talk a lot about scoring inside, but I think we are going to get more rebounds this season then we have average in prior seasons.

I'm just not buying that our 3 point will be all that off.

Who knows how good we will shoot. Even it we come close to last season it will work for us.

 

[DukeDenver]

Luke Maye disappeared in the final four -- 23 minutes, 0-4 FG, 2 FT

They'll need much more consistency out him.

I guess the buffet wasn't to his liking.

 

[hart2chesson]

Making light of your rival never seems wise.

LT I will make "light" of them the rest of my life, especially the way they kept the public in the "DARK" for two plus decades with phony classes.

#RoyKnewAndDeanDidToo

OFC

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I don't think Trevon's strength is his outside shot, but he's improving. Bagley doesn't shoot that well from outside the arc, but does he even need to take that many from there? Play to our strengths, and if we need a 3 get it to Grayson.

Dunks, putbacks, and fastbreaks boost the old shooting percentage...so let's just get as many of those as possible.

OFC

 

[Dattier]

Making light of your rival never seems wise.

Yeah, I'm in that camp. I'm struggling against the feeling there's going to be a huge, huge drop-off, but I've been so, so wrong on that prediction a couple times before. I try not to underestimate Roy.

 

[hart2chesson]

Yeah, I'm in that camp. I'm struggling against the feeling there's going to be a huge, huge drop-off, but I've been so, so wrong on that prediction a couple times before. I try not to underestimate Roy.

Never underestimate a crook...

OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

Agreed, K should have suspended Grayson for no less than 3 games combined last season. Definitely the first time and I think it would have made us somewhat stronger in the tournament last year. We would all like to relive last season though.

Still I find it difficult to fault K because GRAYSON tripped no one after the ELON GAME. Furthermore he proved his mettle by keeping his cool in the U of L game in the ACC Tourney when Pitino planted someone just to harass G and make him lose his cool. Kid kept his poise and we won 4 straight in Brooklyn.

OFC

 

[topps coach]

Yeah, I'm in that camp. I'm struggling against the feeling there's going to be a huge, huge drop-off, but I've been so, so wrong on that prediction a couple times before. I try not to underestimate Roy.

Imo there will be a slight drop off this year but next year is when it will really start to show up.Regardless of how good a coach you are you cannot keep missing on top level talent and stay on top.Old saying that is not about the X's and O's but the willies and joes is true

 

[Mac9192]

Still I find it difficult to fault K because GRAYSON tripped no one after the ELON GAME. Furthermore he proved his mettle by keeping his cool in the U of L game in the ACC Tourney when Pitino planted someone just to harass G and make him lose his cool. Kid kept his poise and we won 4 straight in Brooklyn.

OFC

I think the problem was nothing was done to him the season prior, which made the indefinite (1) game become the talk of college basketball. That is where I put the blame to K. Where I then scratch my head was when the Wake kid was out of line, and the media said nothing. That street goes both ways. He deserved a lot of criticism for his actions, but also deserves a little praise. Like I said, that was asinine what the Wake kid did to him.
Just hold it together Grayson, lead this team and make everyone eat a turd burger in April when hopefully you are cutting down the net

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

LT I will make "light" of them the rest of my life, especially the way they kept the public in the "DARK" for two plus decades with phony classes.

#RoyKnewAndDeanDidToo

OFC

Yep. Got it. My comment only pertains when they are on the basketball court.

 

[hart2chesson]

Yep. Got it. My comment only pertains when they are on the basketball court.

Gotcha my friend...Hey thats where McCants said they spent most of their time, right? Lol, OFC

 

[gottagonow]

I think the problem was nothing was done to him the season prior, which made the indefinite (1) game become the talk of college basketball. That is where I put the blame to K. Where I then scratch my head was when the Wake kid was out of line, and the media said nothing. That street goes both ways. He deserved a lot of criticism for his actions, but also deserves a little praise. Like I said, that was asinine what the Wake kid did to him.
Just hold it together Grayson, lead this team and make everyone eat a turd burger in April when hopefully you are cutting down the net

Grayson can be the NCAA POTY if he plays like we know he can. Right off the bat he already has a strike against him but he sure can make all the haters eat a big bag of Blue Devil turd burgers served all the way.

 

[hart2chesson]

Grayson can be the NCAA POTY if he plays like we know he can. Right off the bat he already has a strike against him but he sure can make all the haters eat a big bag of Blue Devil turd burgers served all the way.

Hes got the ESPN propaganda machine against him, but I agree w/you! OFC

 

[gottagonow]

Many on this board have said the cheats will lose 9 or 10 games this year and if they do they will not be a top 10 to 15 team. I was one in the camp that was really surprised at what The Cheating Holes accomplished last season. I think they achieved as a team beyond even the most diehard cheats expectations and thats a testament to experience, to good ole Roy and some timely luck. The fact that they were huge and so experienced up front with Meeks and Hicks and had a very good, not great PG and had some great luck in the tournament from a not so good Big Luke Maye brought them the golden nugget. I don't think for a second that Berry is a great player, very good but not great. He had a few really sub par games last year and Big Luke is not Larry Bird as some of the Tar Fools seem to think. Berry, Pinson and Maye might really struggle this year without the supporting cast from last year and the jury is still out on some of their players. I just don't see them as being that tough this year. Hicks, Meeks, Jackson and Bradley will be more difficult to overcome than Paige and Johnson were.

 

[skysdad]

All I know is the unc incoming class is way under rated. OFC

 

[dukiejay]

Many on this board have said the cheats will lose 9 or 10 games this year and if they do they will not be a top 10 to 15 team.

They lost seven last season and were the #1 overall seed in the NCAA tournament. Same thing two years ago. Duke lost eight last year and were clearly a top six or seven team. When you play in a conference like the ACC, you're going to lose games and still have the potential to be really, really good. Heck, we lost seven games alone just in conference play last year.

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

Grayson can be the NCAA POTY if he plays like we know he can. Right off the bat he already has a strike against him but he sure can make all the haters eat a big bag of Blue Devil turd burgers served all the way.

I am expecting a GREAT season for Duke. However, if we do fall short but Grayson has an OUTSTANDING season then I would be OK with that. Hope they make room for some humble pie after the turd burgers.

 

[timo0402]

They lost seven last season and were the #1 overall seed in the NCAA tournament. Same thing two years ago. Duke lost eight last year and were clearly a top six or seven team. When you play in a conference like the ACC, you're going to lose games and still have the potential to be really, really good. Heck, we lost seven games alone just in conference play last year.

We should have been the number one seed too over them, but I digress....

 

[gottagonow]

They lost seven last season and were the #1 overall seed in the NCAA tournament. Same thing two years ago. Duke lost eight last year and were clearly a top six or seven team. When you play in a conference like the ACC, you're going to lose games and still have the potential to be really, really good. Heck, we lost seven games alone just in conference play last year.

True DJ but the holes were expected to be pretty good last year as were we but we blew a few tires along the way and our season was a downer and we underachieved. Theirs was an upper at the end due to their experience and to me anyway, they overachieved.

 

[Dattier]

I think the problem was nothing was done to him the season prior, which made the indefinite (1) game become the talk of college basketball. That is where I put the blame to K. Where I then scratch my head was when the Wake kid was out of line, and the media said nothing. That street goes both ways. He deserved a lot of criticism for his actions, but also deserves a little praise. Like I said, that was asinine what the Wake kid did to him.
Just hold it together Grayson, lead this team and make everyone eat a turd burger in April when hopefully you are cutting down the net

The 2 incidents from his soph year were really different from each other, though. The first was a trip more akin to the 3rd, sticking his leg out as part of a bad basketball play. The 2nd one was a deliberate trip along the lines of a push or punch involving a player he was engaged in some rough stuff w/ at that very moment. The 2nd one gets lumped in w/ the other 2 b/c it involved a leg, but that's where the similarity ends.

 

[df64]

If UNC played Arkansas in the tourney as a road game like Duke had to play SC and Duke got to play in a home environment like UNC got to, would the results have been reversed? Lot of luck goes into winning a ship. Even without much of anything from Bolden, Giles, Delaurier, a limited Grayson and Jefferson, if Tatum comes back a little earlier, does Duke win just one more game during the pre tourney season and get the one seed instead of UNC? With all that bad luck, Duke was right there. If UNC had half of the missed games due to injury-half-no way they win it all.