Basketball Rutgers Hoops +/- from each B1G game

[Richie O]

Forgot who asked for it, but someone asked me for the plus / minus of the team this year. Here's a breakdown from each Big Ten game.

 

[fluoxetine]

https://kenpom.com/blog/a-treatise-on-plusminus/

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I’m going to be infesting to take out the illinojs and Penn state losses and the Nebraska and Michigan state wins and see what it generates

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Jalen Miller has the highest plus minus on team. Some like to say we are 4 on 5 offensively. Maybe we are 6 on 5 defensively.

 

[MLBash93]

Jalen Miller has the highest plus minus on team. Some like to say we are 4 on 5 offensively. Maybe we are 6 on 5 defensively.

McConnells issues isn't he can't score, because he's very good in the mid range.

His issue is at times he plays like a complete dumbass

 

[BigEastPhil]

I found interesting:

- Caleb is a minus given all the other starters are a net plus player. I think is because of the NW Game in the 2nd half when we came back from 24 down which coincided when Pike benched Caleb and the rest of the starters stayed in the game.
- Only bench players to have a plus are Reiber, Mag and Miller. Shows lack of solid depth on team especially when you see scary + / - numbers of Oskar / Agee etc.
- Can't believe Jones hasn't played since home game vs Michigan and that I believe were garbage minutes.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Jalen Miller has the highest plus minus on team. Some like to say we are 4 on 5 offensively. Maybe we are 6 on 5 defensively.

Several posters - who were bashing Miller - should hopefully see the chart that Richie put up and learn to appreciate the good that Miller does - given defense is 50% of the game. Though in fairness I do realize his offensive limitations and the issue having him and Caleb on the court at the same time for long periods of time.

 

[fluoxetine]

+ / - is basically meaningless

 

[RUChoppin]

We should clearly be starting Miller/Baker/Mulcahy/Harper/Reiber, lol

McConnell? 9th man after Hyatt!

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

On a team like ours where the starters play basically the whole game, + / - is completely useless. Especially taken as an average as it’s not SD adjusted.

Caleb didn’t play in the second half of the NW game when we made that come back. His +/- goes to -0- without that one game alone. We lost it anyway

Meanwhile Hyatt was on the floor absorbing a ton of meaningless minutes during a blow out win vs Nebraska. Think we don’t pull that one out without him? His +/- is getting a +33 boost from that one game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

+ / - is basically meaningless

Not completely

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

On a team like ours where the starters play basically the whole game, + / - is completely useless. Especially taken as an average as it’s not SD adjusted.

Caleb didn’t play in the second half of the NW game when we made that come back. His +/- goes to -0- without that one game alone. We lost it anyway

Meanwhile Hyatt was on the floor absorbing a ton of meaningless minutes during a blow out win vs Nebraska. Think we don’t pull that one out without him? His +/- is getting a +33 boost from that one game.

Geo got saved for not absorbing blow out loss at Illinois.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Not completely

As a blended average it is completely useless.

There are circumstances where the stat from an individual game can be informative but not always.

 

[toby83]

+ / - is basically meaningless

I have gone back and forth with this and tend to agree for most part. Not sure what the real hoops analytics say about + / -?

There is something to be said for being on the court in a 5 man game during a nice 17-4 stretch , but does it REALLY tell you how they contributed?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I have gone back and forth with this and tend to agree for most part. Not sure what the real hoops analytics say about + / -?

There is something to be said for being on the court in a 5 man game during a nice 17-4 stretch , but does it REALLY tell you how they contributed?

sometimes, but not always.

There is some relevance to the Miller and Reiber numbers, IMO.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

sometimes, but not always.

There is some relevance to the Miller and Reiber numbers, IMO.

Yes - for the bench players for sure.

Not for starters that are playing 30+ minutes a game though. They really aren’t on the bench long enough to form a correlation.

 

[gregkoko]

Yes - for the bench players for sure.

Not for starters that are playing 30+ minutes a game though. They really aren’t on the bench long enough to form a correlation.

Yeah that's my feeling on +/-

If you're playing 10-15 minutes a game it's way more telling of a stat. If you're playing 35 minutes it's not really saying anything about your personal play vs the team

 

[fluoxetine]

Not completely

I have gone back and forth with this and tend to agree for most part. Not sure what the real hoops analytics say about + / -?

There is something to be said for being on the court in a 5 man game during a nice 17-4 stretch , but does it REALLY tell you how they contributed?

+/- would be useful but it just takes forever to converge. The noise to signal ratio is so high that over the numbers of games that are actually played in a season it's pretty meaningless as an evaluative or predictive measure. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting though.

I posted a link upthread with Kenpom's take on it.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

consider adding a "last 5 games" column.. maybe HOME column, AWAY column

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

+/- would be useful but it just takes forever to converge. The noise to signal ratio is so high that over the numbers of games that are actually played in a season it's pretty meaningless as an evaluative or predictive measure. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting though.

I posted a link upthread with Kenpom's take on it.

I think that’s what he meant. It can be useful on a case by case basis. Never blended across a ton of games unless your looking at a kid who plays limited minutes and showing that there’s really no game where that player’s +/- is worse than the team average for any one game. Where that’s true - it sort of shows it’s not hurting the team to have to play that kid.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Several posters - who were bashing Miller - should hopefully see the chart that Richie put up and learn to appreciate the good that Miller does - given defense is 50% of the game. Though in fairness I do realize his offensive limitations and the issue having him and Caleb on the court at the same time for long periods of time.

hmmm.. maybe Miller has a good +/- because he doesn't shoot.. unlike the guard he replaces most often. Meaning he lets others shoot the ball.

I do think we should have taken the time to fix Caleb's scoring. Not sure how you do that.. but he had a better shot in prior years. Play practice games where only he is allowed to shoot? try something crazy because right now I never want to see him shooting.. and that is too limiting as he actually works on offense to make himself available for passes.. unlike some players. So he ends up with the ball and clearly has little confidence shooting.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

+/- would be useful but it just takes forever to converge. The noise to signal ratio is so high that over the numbers of games that are actually played in a season it's pretty meaningless as an evaluative or predictive measure. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting though.

I posted a link upthread with Kenpom's take on it.

You have to admit there is relevance when looking at miller and Reiber

 

[fluoxetine]

You have to admit there is relevance when looking at miller and Reiber

It's a good argument against people who say things like "we always fall behind when X is on the floor!" but I don't think the fact that Miller and Reiber have good +/- really tells us anything we couldn't already see. If that was all the information I had and someone asked me if there were good I think the correct answer is a giant shrug.

 

[RUChoppin]

You have to admit there is relevance when looking at miller and Reiber

Not necessarily - Pike will also frequently play reserves situationally depending on who the opponent has on the floor. If an opposing starter is taking a rest, he might put in a reserve to steal some rest minutes for one of our starters, too.