I know about the story when Rupp was forced to retire but what was the fanbase's reaction when it happened? Were we angry that it happened? Did we think it was time for a change?
Rupp's retirement
- Thread starter David Rice
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Let’s say there’s a lot of revisionist history on this board as Hall is now portrayed as the “jolly elder statesmen”, but if this board was around when he coached, and you thought Tubby got it bad...
Agree. Coach Rupp is Kentucky basketball. He made 2 Final Fours in his last 20 years at UK (1 in his last 14 years). This place would have been calling for his head.
To answer your question OP, I wasn’t alive then but I believe there was a group of people trying to change the mandatory retirement age to allow him to stay.
I wasn't angry when he was forced to retire because his health was declining. I was ready for a change even though Rupp was a living legend.
I could only imagine trying to follow Rupp would have been impossible, but I think Joe B was fairly successful in what he achieved If not for that GTOWN game his heat may have been less but I was not around then.
Too young to remember the transition but old enough to remember Hall was seemingly always under the gun and his championship was more of a "you damn well better"/"or bust" than something he was actually given much credit on or buy him almost any cache.
The man in the brown suit won four titles so he was mostly above blame but I tend to think some frustration was building since 58 and Hall was transferred every lick of it and maybe some from the administration for being the beneficiary of forcing Rupp out because he won four championships here damn it (yes, even though if it was not Rupp they'd want him out because it's been forever since the last championship).
I think it took another drought or two and Sutton and probation for Joe to gain a little appreciation and respect.
The man in the brown suit won four titles so he was mostly above blame but I tend to think some frustration was building since 58 and Hall was transferred every lick of it and maybe some from the administration for being the beneficiary of forcing Rupp out because he won four championships here damn it (yes, even though if it was not Rupp they'd want him out because it's been forever since the last championship).
I think it took another drought or two and Sutton and probation for Joe to gain a little appreciation and respect.
It was split, some wanted the age limit thing done away with. I thought it was time he retired, the game had passed him by. I had mixed feelings about it, but thought for his legacy he should retire. Hall had the hardest job ever, following a legend, but he did well with it, winning a NC in 78 and should had another in 77 had Wooden not announced his retirement. Hall had some great talent and teams. He and Denny Crum use to come to Dale Hollow and fish a lot, they would eat at the Burkesville pool room, both were really nice and talkative.
I remember the last couple of years that Adolph coached. Age was taking its toll. At the end of the 70-71 season, he was talking about the players and he remarked about "that Soderbeck boy". What he had done, was take Mark Soderberg, and Kent Hollenbeck and combined the names. He was starting to do a lot of that kind of thing. He was a legend, but, it was time.
I think the rule that forced Rupp to retire was a rule for the University of Kentucky and there were some ready for a change because some thought the program falling in to mediocrity. Hall never got the credit he deserved, some of fan base didn't like him. I remember when Hall was introduced after the players like they do now every game and was booed at Rupp and there were more boos than a few. Hall was not fond of the media and would tell them were to get off in a minute, people like Billy Reed and more found that out quick. Other coaches who have followed legends didn't last long, Bill Guthridge, Gene Bartow and Mkie Davis to name a few and there are more.
I was about 30 years old when he was forced into retirement due to state law. 70 was the age limit for state employees and he was a state employee.
There was a lot of controversy and many wanted an exception to the rule so he could continue and retire on his terms but those in charge said no. Joe B had been promised the job and if the exception had been made he would have walked out of Kentucky for the third time. He quit when he was a player and he quit and took the St Louis job when he was an assistant under Rupp because he was getting anxious to be a head coach. UK and Rupp talked him into coming back as the top assistant with the promise he would get the job.
What was really nice was the outpouring of love from the SEC schools the year Rupp retired. It was known through out the league that this was the last year he would be a coach and every SEC road game was sold out with fans showing him love and respect. Fans who hated UK and had booed him for years suddenly stood and cheered for him when he was introduced. I attended his last game in Florida and it was remarkable to see the love from Gator fans. It was more respect than love I suppose but it was beautiful to see.
Another footnote in history. After he was "retired" at Kentucky, Duke wanted him to take their head coaching job which was vacant. Think about that.
There was a lot of controversy and many wanted an exception to the rule so he could continue and retire on his terms but those in charge said no. Joe B had been promised the job and if the exception had been made he would have walked out of Kentucky for the third time. He quit when he was a player and he quit and took the St Louis job when he was an assistant under Rupp because he was getting anxious to be a head coach. UK and Rupp talked him into coming back as the top assistant with the promise he would get the job.
What was really nice was the outpouring of love from the SEC schools the year Rupp retired. It was known through out the league that this was the last year he would be a coach and every SEC road game was sold out with fans showing him love and respect. Fans who hated UK and had booed him for years suddenly stood and cheered for him when he was introduced. I attended his last game in Florida and it was remarkable to see the love from Gator fans. It was more respect than love I suppose but it was beautiful to see.
Another footnote in history. After he was "retired" at Kentucky, Duke wanted him to take their head coaching job which was vacant. Think about that.
That is how I remember it as well,the fanbase was split,I won't say it was 50/50 but it was in that ballpark.Hall wasn't fully embraced as the heir apparent although he had been running the team practice wise for a year ot two. Rupp seemed to like Gale Catlett as a replacement to some degree.
Sawnee Cat summarized Rupp leaving accurately. The fan base was not clearly behind Rupp staying. The game was changing and Rupp was struggling to change with it. The times were changing. The late 60’s snd early 70’s saw the beginnings of significant social change. More African American players were competing and Rupp was only able to sign one player. There were a couple of walk on black football players who played sparingly.
Harry Lancaster often gave the team instruction during timeouts. Rupp had difficulty remembering player’s names. He had an ongoing battle with disbetes. He looked older than his age. It was time for him to go but still, he was UK basketball. He was the critical founder. Had this board been around back then he and his successor Joe Hall would have been ripped just like every UK coach since. Hall in particular would have been unmercifully attacked.
Harry Lancaster often gave the team instruction during timeouts. Rupp had difficulty remembering player’s names. He had an ongoing battle with disbetes. He looked older than his age. It was time for him to go but still, he was UK basketball. He was the critical founder. Had this board been around back then he and his successor Joe Hall would have been ripped just like every UK coach since. Hall in particular would have been unmercifully attacked.
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This is how I remember it also. There was not a coaching search when Rupp was retired. Joe B was promised head coach and this is why he came back after accepting the St Louis job. But there was a divide in the powers that be. Happy Chandler was pro Rupp and spoke out. I was with the fans in favor of Joe B taking over because I thought he was the best recruiter and would continue our fast break offense. But his offense was not the traditional Adolph Rupp Kentucky offense, especially in the later years. But to be fair a lot of teams were becoming slow down and run the clock. UNC was the team most responsible for that.
I can't imagine Joe B as our coach with an internet message board. He would have been crucified. It was bad enough with WHAS and Jock Sutherland spouting hate for hours every night on their talk show. I don't see how Coach Hall lasted as long as he did. He had to block all the negative talk out of his mind I would think.
I was in college in those days but had a solid 14-15 years under my belt as a UK fan even then.I remember having mixed feelings about it but I was in the Hall camp as a replacement.I think history proves that Hall was the right choice. Rupp to duke was talked about but I wonder how serious that was and how seriously he considered it,his health was failing.
The last years of Rupp were tough except for 66' and 69-70 but those years were special. Listening to Cawood call the games and the Cawood/Rupp post game shows were things I wish some of the younger fans could have experienced and by the way that isn't the folly and foggy memory of some old man they were that damn good thank you very much.
The last years of Rupp were tough except for 66' and 69-70 but those years were special. Listening to Cawood call the games and the Cawood/Rupp post game shows were things I wish some of the younger fans could have experienced and by the way that isn't the folly and foggy memory of some old man they were that damn good thank you very much.
It would have made the Tubby wars seem like child's play.
Hall left to become the coach at St Louis because Rupp would not endorse him over Catlett.He resigned at St Louis without coaching a game when Rupp relented and gave Joe B his approval.The Rupp deal seemed to be about fifty-fifty from the fans I knew,yes Hall was the bad guy because he replaced Rupp,and Rupp didn't do anythingto stop the rumors.
Actually, the Wooden retirement announcement game was in '75. Kentucky was beginning to pull away and Wooden walked out on the floor and was shaking his finger in one of the refs face and then all the calls went for UCLA. It was a fiasco.
Rupp was in very poor health - he wore house shoes at games because his diabetes was so advanced.
These are the facts: The game was changing and had passed by Rupp. Joe Hall was promised the job after he had come back from ST Louis. It was evident that Rupp's Runts was the last great team for Rupp and he couldn't get it done with Issel, Pratt and Casey especially when Casey broke his leg prior to his senior year. A forced retirement was the only option.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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I think this was the feeling with a lot of fans. Everyone loved Rupp but the losses in 1966 and 1970 really took a lot out of him. UK was "decent" in 1971 and 1972 but it was obvious that the program was slipping a bit and it was time for him to gracefully bow out.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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The game did not pass him by and UK probably would've won the 1970 title had Casey not been hurt. Rupp was getting on in years and the game was changing
A lot were under the impression that Lancaster would be the next head coach but not sure of the circumstances on why he was not hired. I do remember that a lot of players didn't like him but not sure if that had anything to do with it.
I was about 10, 11 years old then. It was a big deal. Most people, it seemed to me as a boy, thought it was time for Coach Rupp to go.
I have read since then that Rupp did actually accept the Duke job. But then his farming partner died and he backed out.
I have read since then that Rupp did actually accept the Duke job. But then his farming partner died and he backed out.
I think suggesting the game had passed him by is totally unfair. His health was definitely failing though. A look at his last 5 years is no indication of a coach who was out of touch in anyway.
1967–68 Adolph Rupp 22-5 15-3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1968–69 Adolph Rupp 23-5 16-2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1969–70 Adolph Rupp 26-2 17-1 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1970–71 Adolph Rupp 22-6 16-2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1971–72 Adolph Rupp 21-7 14-4 1st NCAA Elite Eight 5 straight SEC titles to finish up is not so bad.
1967–68 Adolph Rupp 22-5 15-3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1968–69 Adolph Rupp 23-5 16-2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1969–70 Adolph Rupp 26-2 17-1 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1970–71 Adolph Rupp 22-6 16-2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1971–72 Adolph Rupp 21-7 14-4 1st NCAA Elite Eight 5 straight SEC titles to finish up is not so bad.
290-87 after 1958 is still very successful. The run of the Sam Gilbert bought UCLA teams of this era hurts Rupp's perception. Even making a final 4 in this era was very difficult as all the best teams were piled together and UCLA had an easy run as teams were kept pretty strictly to geographical regions in the tourney and quality teams were sparse out west.
Just looked at Jon Scott’s site. UK’s final ranking in the AP poll in Rupp’s last 5 seasons: 5, 7, 1, 8, 18. Doesn’t look like the record of someone left in the past.....
Some crazy scores in the 69-70 ME Regional, every game had a Team going over the Century mark.
And for some reason, I don't remember the Regionals having "sub Regional games", always remembered it as 16 Teams with a RSF & RF being played. Guess those 2 games were the only ones broadcasted on TV.
And for some reason, I don't remember the Regionals having "sub Regional games", always remembered it as 16 Teams with a RSF & RF being played. Guess those 2 games were the only ones broadcasted on TV.
Wow, even with all the UK history I've read about, I never heard the story of Rupp taking the Duke job.
https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/1/7/10734032/former-duke-coach-bill-foster-dies-at-86
Remember the game like it was yesterday. Once Wooden announced his retirement we had no chance even though we had outplayed them for most of the game.. Wooden was to go out on top. Should have been playing Louisville instead of UCLA.. they just needed to make a free throw and that game was over
Boy, I remember that as well. I was 17 and even I knew that when Wooden announced, it was over. We didn't have a chance.
Also from Jon’s site, just read Rupp’s obituary in the New York Times. Two things I noticed.
First is this, the second sentence in the obit:
“The Kentucky basketball team will be host to South Carolina tonight in a game in the 23,000 seat arena that was named for Mr. Rupp, the most successful college basketball coach in history.”
The ‘most successful college coach in the country’ - this was nearly 3 years after Wooden retired. Can you imagine anyone today saying Rupp was the greatest, or even greater than Wooden?
The other thing I notice is related. The obit is very long, as is the Times way. You know what two words don’t appear anywhere in it? Texas Western. If Rupp’s obituary were written today, 100% guarantee that game is in the very first sentence. Amazing what James Michener, Curry Kirkpatrick and Sports Illustrated have wrought to the man’s legacy.......
First is this, the second sentence in the obit:
“The Kentucky basketball team will be host to South Carolina tonight in a game in the 23,000 seat arena that was named for Mr. Rupp, the most successful college basketball coach in history.”
The ‘most successful college coach in the country’ - this was nearly 3 years after Wooden retired. Can you imagine anyone today saying Rupp was the greatest, or even greater than Wooden?
The other thing I notice is related. The obit is very long, as is the Times way. You know what two words don’t appear anywhere in it? Texas Western. If Rupp’s obituary were written today, 100% guarantee that game is in the very first sentence. Amazing what James Michener, Curry Kirkpatrick and Sports Illustrated have wrought to the man’s legacy.......
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Hall did a great job under the circumstances. 75 runner up and in 77 lost to UNC in East Regional. Dean Smith calling us karate defense and whining. UNC went four corners for most of second half and lived at the line. 78 was one of the Special UK teams. That team was so good. 84 we shoot 3-33 in second half against Georgetown after dominating first half. Hall was a great recruiter and after 75 team seemed to have what became known as the Twin Towers. We had some incredible big men under Hall
I was talking about the black athletes playing in college basketball was what I meant as the game had passed him by. UK was not competing for Black Athletes and when Joe Hall signed Jack Givens and James Lee everything changed for the good for UK. Remember that Rupp tried to recruit Wes Unseld and Butch Beard it became obvious that premier black athletes didn't want to play for him.
When winning 20 games was a BIG deal. OOC games were tougher due to traditional rivalries...and fewer games played.
Wow, yall have crazy good memories. Yet another game where UNC lived at the line vs UK.
Sidenote: Free Throw shooting was far more advanced in the 70's than it is today. How is that possible?
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Games/19770319NorthCarolina.html
It’s amazing I can remember this stuff and can’t remember what I had for breakfast lol