Runner on first one out

[mount lefroy]

Two strikes on the batter. Runner breaks for second on the pitch.

Swing and foul tip is caught by catcher for strike three.

Is the runner in jeopardy of being doubled off? Is he allowed to stay at second if he beats the throw?

I can’t believe I’ve never noticed this happening if it ever has happened when I was watching.

I’m 52 and consider myself fairly knowledgeable on baseball rules but I’ll be damned if I know this one without searching rulebooks.

 

[West Tn Dawg]

Two strikes on the batter. Runner breaks for second on the pitch.

Swing and foul tip is caught by catcher for strike three.

Is the runner in jeopardy of being doubled off? Is he allowed to stay at second if he beats the throw?

I can’t believe I’ve never noticed this happening if it ever has happened when I was watching.

I’m 52 and consider myself fairly knowledgeable on baseball rules but I’ll be damned if I know this one without searching rulebooks.

I don't know, but would think he has to return to 1st. On a regular foul ball the runner has to tag up to advance. Good question.

 

[West Tn Dawg]

I don't know, but would think he has to return to 1st. On a regular foul ball the runner has to tag up to advance. Good question.

Here is your answer.............
Foul Tip and Foul ball are not the same.

In baseball, a foul tip is defined as "a batted ball that goes sharp directly from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. A foul tip is considered a strike and the ball remains "in play."
A foul tip is not the same as a foul ball, although many people mistakenly use the term to refer to any pitch at which the batter swings and makes slight contact, regardless of whether it is caught by the catcher. However, the rules are very narrow: it is not a foul tip if the ball touches anything else on the way to the catcher's hand or glove or if it is not legally caught and held. Anything else is technically a foul ball, including if the ball is caught after popping up into foul territory.
The rules treat a foul tip as equivalent in every respect to a pitch at which the batter swings and misses.

• A foul tip is always a strike, regardless of the existing ball-and-strike count.
  • A player with two strikes against him is automatically struck out, unless the catcher does not successfully catch the tipped ball, then it is ruled a foul.
  • A player with fewer than two strikes against him is not out.
• The ball remains alive and runners may advance or be thrown out on the bases.

In contrast, a foul ball counts as a strike only if the batter does not already have two strikes against him/her. Runners may not advance and must return to their bases without danger of being tagged out.

 

[Go Budaw]

I’ve always wanted to know at what threshold a foul tip becomes a foul ball. If hitter just barely makes contact and the ball goes 2 feet straight up in the air right behind the plate (to where the catcher doesn’t even have to leave his stance to catch it). Foul tip or foul ball? What about a ball that grazes off the end of the bat that a catcher dives straight out and catches at the outside of the opposite batters box. Foul tip or foul ball? In both cases, the ball doesn’t hit anything on the way to the catcher’s mitt.

 

[PBRME]

My memory is fading but I think the runner will be safe at second as long as he’s not thrown out. If it’s a pop that’s a different story.

 

[Chesusdog]

I’ve always wanted to know at what threshold a foul tip becomes a foul ball. If hitter just barely makes contact and the ball goes 2 feet straight up in the air right behind the plate (to where the catcher doesn’t even have to leave his stance to catch it). Foul tip or foul ball? What about a ball that grazes off the end of the bat that a catcher dives straight out and catches at the outside of the opposite batters box. Foul tip or foul ball? In both cases, the ball doesn’t hit anything on the way to the catcher’s mitt.

I think the words you're looking for here are sharply and directly. A foul ball is going to have a change in velocity and trajectory whereas the tip makes the briefest of contact but not enough to change the trajectory of the ball from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's mitt. Both scenarios you describe would be foul balls.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I am presuming

that the ball going higher than the catches head still means something,

even in this case.

 

[Go Budaw]

I think the words you're looking for here are sharply and directly. A foul ball is going to have a change in velocity and trajectory whereas the tip makes the briefest of contact but not enough to change the trajectory of the ball from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's mitt. Both scenarios you describe would be foul balls.

But does a ball that does the same thing off the end of the bat not travel sharply and directly to the mitt, even if the catcher has to dive to catch it? Or is it different because the catcher has moved from his previously stationary position?

I picture it as a right handed catcher (glove hand left) setting up inside on a LH hitter. Pitcher misses his spot badly to the opposite side of the plate, so the catcher is already moving that direction before contact. Hitter swings and grazes it of the end of the bat, the catcher with his momentum already traveling that way is able to position the mitt directly behind the ball before contact and make the catch. Obviously an extreme scenario, but still I’m curious as to the letter of the rule.

 

[mount lefroy]

Here is your answer.............
Foul Tip and Foul ball are not the same.

In baseball, a foul tip is defined as "a batted ball that goes sharp directly from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. A foul tip is considered a strike and the ball remains "in play."
A foul tip is not the same as a foul ball, although many people mistakenly use the term to refer to any pitch at which the batter swings and makes slight contact, regardless of whether it is caught by the catcher. However, the rules are very narrow: it is not a foul tip if the ball touches anything else on the way to the catcher's hand or glove or if it is not legally caught and held. Anything else is technically a foul ball, including if the ball is caught after popping up into foul territory.
The rules treat a foul tip as equivalent in every respect to a pitch at which the batter swings and misses.

• A foul tip is always a strike, regardless of the existing ball-and-strike count.
  • A player with two strikes against him is automatically struck out, unless the catcher does not successfully catch the tipped ball, then it is ruled a foul.
  • A player with fewer than two strikes against him is not out.
• The ball remains alive and runners may advance or be thrown out on the bases.

In contrast, a foul ball counts as a strike only if the batter does not already have two strikes against him/her. Runners may not advance and must return to their bases without danger of being tagged out.

Thank you for the research West. What surprises me is that in all my yeas, I’ve never noticed this happening. I mean ever.

But my instincts say that the foul tip does not qualify it as a foul ball and the scenario is the same as if there were no contact at all. Runner advances...which fits your description.