Are there any referees or coaches who can explain why there is no offensive foul when the UT big man takes the ball in the low post, dribbles and bangs into the defender, dribbles and bangs into the defender making room to get off a jump hook or turnaround jumper.
Rules/Officiating Question
- Thread starter DanStewart
- Start date
It is actually charging but you never see it called unless the shoulder is lowered and the offensive player goes through the defensive player. It’s actually just become a common part of the game that somehow has just been accepted as normal basketball.
Subjective it's up to the Refs interpretation of the rule.
NBA seems to get it right may have to do with the spacing but college has always been awful.
NBA seems to get it right may have to do with the spacing but college has always been awful.
The UT big man is one of the worst offender I've seen this year. It's really obvious that he is moving a defender who has established position.
Today's refs expect you to sell it. Be a wuss and flop down like you got shot in the head and you have a chance at getting the call. Stand your ground and take it like a stud, no bueno.
Here's my officiating question.
Now that we have a flop call available, when Vescovi fell down after contact with Toppin, there are only 3 possibilites.
1) charge, 2) block, or 3) flop (technical)
All three require a whistle. Is there any plausible option 4 that does not? (Ref today called nothing)
Now that we have a flop call available, when Vescovi fell down after contact with Toppin, there are only 3 possibilites.
1) charge, 2) block, or 3) flop (technical)
All three require a whistle. Is there any plausible option 4 that does not? (Ref today called nothing)
Depends on how much money they have on the game and what the score is.
The 4th option which is a no call. If talking about the play I remember think it could have easily been called a charge. Seems something will be called there 80-90% of the time, not calling anything adds to the frustration on those type plays.
Worse than not getting a call when standing your ground is somehow you are now guilty of coming underneath the offense and getting a foul called on you.
Did anyone really expect the officiating not to be what it was? They refs have orders from the head office, protect EWWTEE's ranking while not being TOO obvious. Of course the refs failed at both orders.
Much to the chagrin of that chatterings staiRaffertyn
Much to the chagrin of that chatterings staiRaffertyn
I saw that. Oscar gets the foul for playing good D and the UT player gets rewarded. A no call would have been more appropriate in that case. Sean May was another one who got that call REPEATEDLY in the title game some years ago when UNC beat Illinois. The Illinois player wasn't allowed to play defense.
This is precisely it. Oscar stayed upright so instead he got called for it. You have to flop. It's insane.
Howe do you feel about this move when its Oscar doing this?
There is not a big man in CBB that does not do this.
How about the no call T for doing a pull-up on the rim?
Your coaches expect post players to create some separation with the post move....But I've seen it go against the post player and I've seen it not called. What we need is the refs to try to control how aggressive both teams get......and most of the time this does not happen.
That's just it. What's the explanation for a no-call when Vescovi falls down? If they say there was enough contact for a foul, they must call block or charge. If they say there wasn't enough contact for a foul, they must call a flop.
What explanation could a ref give to justify not blowing the whistle?
The only explanation would be there was enough contact to justify him falling down but not enough contact to call a block or a charge. Really nothing wrong with trying to draw a charge and also helping to soften the contact by anticipating the contact and start the fall back just before contact is made. That’s not really flopping or what the intent of the rule was made for. It was to stop BS like we saw Jones pull in the uk-ul game several years ago acting as if he took a shot to the jaw when he wasn’t even touched.
I think if Oscar did what I saw on Saturday, I would not complain if he were called for a foul. I hate the fact that the refs call a block on the D for holding a position. Saturday should have been a no call or a foul on the offense.
All we want is consistency in officiating and competency. A foul on one side of the court should be a foul on the other side.
I told my wife the same thing, the correct call would have been a flop. As I saw it from twenty five years of officiating experience
Justification for a no call is----
"John/Rick---I felt the contact was of no consequence, and simply incidential, and a basketball play by both guys, with no one gaining an advantage---Both guys were completely legal in their acrtions, so I decide to pass on a call..."
Do you as fans---and man I mean this sincerely, and not being a dick---really understand what is consistent, and what is not?
I give the example of baseball....A pitch could be one inch off the plate----you call it a ball. Next pitch is right on the white----you call it a strike. Both pitches from a fans perspective is---they were the same---but they were not.
Same with basketball. I could call a charge,and the next play looks the same, and its called a block. People scream----"thats the same thng at the other end.."--Well maybe the 1st call I called a charge b/c defense established AND maintianed legal guarding position...But on the second, olthough he established legal guarding position---he didn't maintain it. Both plays look the same---but are different.
Of the 50 calls we see a game----we complain about 10 or them---right? Maybe more. I dunno. Most that we disagree with is against our team. Out of the 10 we get mad at---how many do you really feel we ae right about?
Also, how many calls do we think our wrong, arent,and its simply b/c we don'tunderstand the criterua behind why something was called?
Look I officiated CBB for a while----I still yell at the tv---And many times after the replay, I;m like---Well ****....
Since no refs will call a charge in that situation, I like the strategy of pulling the chair.
Let the big buffoon bang you twice, then on the third you swing your hips open and let him fall *** over teakettles.
Easy turnover!
Let the big buffoon bang you twice, then on the third you swing your hips open and let him fall *** over teakettles.
Easy turnover!
There is a BIG difference between the 50/50 calls that you are mostly talking about and a call that is just plain obvious to even an unbiased observer. The 50/50 calls will never be consistent.
What we are talking about in this thread is one player obviously throwing his body into the defender to move him back and the defender trying to hold his ground. I can't see how that is a foul on the defender! To me, it was obvious!
Using baseball as an example, I will never forget the Atlanta/Florida game in the 1997 NLCS. In game 5, Eric Gregg called the game so horribly that it is called "his generous strike zone" in Wikipedia. The announcers spent the game justifying his calls by saying that Atlanta pitchers have always been given the benefit of the corners. With my own eyes, I saw pitches that were far outside the strike zone called strikes. And, multiple Atlanta batters complained throughout the game. Plus, the game was one-sided. The calls went against Atlanta.
Sometimes the calls are clear. Those are the ones that I want to see called consistently. When the UT player continued to throw his body into Oscar, that is an offensive foul. When Sean May did it against Illinois, that should have been an offensive foul. It isn't that hard to see.
The answer is if the defense falls down they’ll likely call a charge. If you don’t fall down they never call a charge…sometimes they call a flipping defense foul like a freedom of movement infraction
It’s a shame officials are so mesmerized by defense reaction vs calling it is it is
