RU-SHU rivalry

[BOGDANOVICH]

I tend to embrace it more in the years when we win and start to question its value when we lose. That might read as snark, but it's not intended. In normal times, though - that is, when it's not the week of the game or the week after - I still value the series very much. It's fun. Is it as strategically important for Seton Hall as beating, say, Villanova or Xavier? No, not in as much as those are league game against opponents with national profiles. But still, it's two major conference programs from different leagues that are what, 25 miles apart? How is that not a big deal?

I plainly say (and have for thirty years) that it is a big deal and I LOVE when we win that game ... just as much as I LOATHE when we lose it. That was absolutely miserable two years ago, knowing by the first TV timeout that we had no chance and there I was, stuck sitting there for two more hours. And even five days later when we beat No. 7 Maryland without Mamu or Powell in the lineup, I though, "This is great," but having lost like that to Rutgers on Sunday definitely diminished the overall level of joy - at least for me.

I've always enjoyed this board and plenty of posters/people on it, some of whom I know personally, but there is almost nothing in sports I enjoy as much as beating Rutgers, so when it happens, that feeling tells me all I need to know about the value of the series. Same as the feeling when we lose, actually. And as it tends to be pretty even overall, it remains a fun event, something I always look forward to ... even with whatever trepidation it carries with it.

The rivalry games are all very intense and much fun to watch. Ideally Rutgers,Princeton and Seton Hall should play each other every year. For those who remember the Bill Bradley and Geoff Petrie years at Princeton, the Rutgers/Princeton series was as electric as the SHU games. Seton Hall and Princeton have always been good rivals in basketball for Rutgers. Playing Maryland or Penn State or Indiana is fine but the juice is much greater for the games against the New Jersey rivals.

 

[HallX2]

It’s the best school in the country, possibly the world. We wrestle them and play them in lacrosse. There’s basketball history between the schools too. Seton Hall is … just there. There’s nothing interesting, exciting or impressive about Seton Hall.

It makes the athletic competition more interesting to you because the Princeton students have higher IQs? After all the SAT is nothing but a glorified IQ test. I’d think in sports you’d want athleticism with high sports IQ

 

[ColonelRutgers]

RU and Princeton may have taken different paths especially when Rutgers became the State University in the '50's but Princeton is literally right down the road from us. It's the easiest road trip either team can have and I personally have always liked going down to Jadwin which I usually try to do every year whether RU is playing them or not. Plus I'm a big fan of nostalgia and pre-'80's college basketball before it exploded and became just about TV and they represent that to me. I haven't been to a Seton Hall home game in probably over 20 years. I would consider going to the Meadowlands but no way I'm going to Newark if I have a choice, sorry.

In the '80's and '90's when we were stuck in the A-10 and Seton Hall benefitted from the invite to the Big East, it meant a lot to Rutgers because we were like how the hell did this happen? Then, when we were both in the Big East we could both impact each other's seasons, often played twice a year, and supposedly were recruiting rivals (I always thought that recruiting stuff was the most overrated part of this. We both get guys from Texas, Europe, whatever. It wasn't like we were just pulling in local kids.) But when we parted ways and we moved to a conference and were playing games against national brands Michigan State, Indiana, Michigan, Maryland, Ohio State and the rest, the game against Seton Hall suddenly became a helluva lot less important to me. Conference games matter the most and throw in those name brands and large alumni bases and it's a no brainer for me.

The game definitely means a lot more to Seton Hall not because we're better (which we obviously are not) but because their folks seem to hate Rutgers for being the state university with all its perceived resources and getting all the publicity (which they feel is undeserved) and being seen as a liberal school or whatever. I'm also not sure how juicy the rivalries are in the new Big East or how excited their fans get to play teams like Creighton other than fact that they're good. There are Big Ten alumni and fans all over the place that we've come to dislike but I wonder if anyone from Seton Hall has ever known or run into anyone that went to DePaul or Creighton or Butler.

 

[bac2therac]

Terrible take by the OP. I wonder if this post is even made if Rutgers wins last night. I couldn't disagree more. Nothing is more exciting in Jersey basketball than when Rutgers and Seton Hall go head to head, even more so now when both are finally fielding competitive teams at the same time! I miss seeing them play twice a year.

Mad about last night's result, but may this series never end. Go RU, F Hall and see you at the RAC in 2022!

nothing to do with the result at all, since RU left the BE I really do not pay attention to what is going on in South Orange

 

[MLBash93]

It makes the athletic competition more interesting to you because the Princeton students have higher IQs? After all the SAT is nothing but a glorified IQ test. I’d think in sports you’d want athleticism with high sports IQ

That mentality (by @Rutgers56) is the exact reason RU is where they have been in athletics.

RU Athletics want to be top 25 in everything.
RU Academics want to be like Princeton and Stanford etc.

Considering a good portion of our fans are like 60 and over and get off to academic rankings this is why we never pull the stuff like Willard did to build seton hall (hiring whiteheads coach)

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

Honestly as someone who got really into the rivalry while we were in the A10 trying to catchup to them in the Big East when they were in the glory years and then trying to prove ourself when we entered the Big East, I really do not get all hyped up or care too much for this game. Sure its great when we thumped them at home two years ago but I am sort of indifferent about this loss this year especially since we beat Purdue. Bigger games and bigger programs in the Big 10. Two schools that do not seem to recruit the same type of players and have different philosophies. I do not even go on their board anymore. Remember how heated the back and forth used to be between boards. I think this is a game that means more to the Pirates but more importantly I think its the media who actually loves the series more than anyone else.

That RU finally arrived and made the NCAA for 2 seasons* makes me worry a lot less about this game. I do not think the program has to prove anything. Is this such a heated rivalry between players like we used to see in the 90s and 00s. I just dont see it anymore

I know others will totally disagree with me. Hell I think the Princeton rivalry rightlfully gradually faded into obsecurity over time.

Incoming in 1, 2, 3......

I’m with you on this.

 

[Rutgers56_rivals]

That mentality (by @Rutgers56) is the exact reason RU is where they have been in athletics.

RU Athletics want to be top 25 in everything.
RU Academics want to be like Princeton and Stanford etc.

Considering a good portion of our fans are like 60 and over and get off to academic rankings this is why we never pull the stuff like Willard did to build seton hall (hiring whiteheads coach)

Everyone values different things and focuses on different aspects of their school, so I’d never tell anyone to think like me. But for me, there’s no question that the impact the school, students, researchers, etc. have on the world at-large is far more valuable and important than what happens on the court or field. So yes, academic standing, being a member of the AAU and other distinguishing academic/research elements take priority for me. Always will.

 

[G- RUnit]

We need a rival. It’s the Hall. And it’s sad and ridiculous we don’t play Princeton every year.

If I had my druthers we’d be playing St.John’s, Fordham, Manhattan, Monmouth, Rider, Temple and Delaware much more than we do.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

We need a rival. It’s the Hall. And it’s sad and ridiculous we don’t play Princeton every year.

If I had my druthers we’d be playing St.John’s, Fordham, Manhattan, Monmouth, Rider, Temple and Delaware much more than we do.

Rider?

 

[Knightmoves]

For me it started when NJ became a hot bed of recruiting, and RU and SHU were competing for the same recruits. Back then it was Tim Thomas. Marquis Webb, A Bassett and Freeman. I think now it's a primarily a product of these Message Boards. Fans on the RU and SHU Boards take frequent shots at our respective programs and that makes our Team want to kick the other Team's ***. You guys are still talking about the 2019 beatdown in almost everyone of your threads on this Board. I'm sure we'd do the same on the SHU Board if the circumstances were reversed.

Seton Hall has a message board?

 

[MLBash93]

Everyone values different things and focuses on different aspects of their school, so I’d never tell anyone to think like me. But for me, there’s no question that the impact the school, students, researchers, etc. have on the world at-large is far more valuable and important than what happens on the court or field. So yes, academic standing, being a member of the AAU and other distinguishing academic/research elements take priority for me. Always will.

Sorry to disappoint you man. We're not Dartmouth

 

[RUJMM78]

Basically any high-majors that share a state, especially a state with few high majors, should play every single season. Louisville-Kentucky, Marquette-Wisconsin, Penn State-Pitt, Nebraska-Creighton, Georgia-Georgia State, Xavier-Cincinnati. There's no reason any of these games should stop, Rutgers-SHU included.

The biggest in state rivalry is Duke versus North Carolina.

 

[bethlehemfan]

That mentality (by @Rutgers56) is the exact reason RU is where they have been in athletics.

RU Athletics want to be top 25 in everything.
RU Academics want to be like Princeton and Stanford etc.

Considering a good portion of our fans are like 60 and over and get off to academic rankings this is why we never pull the stuff like Willard did to build seton hall (hiring whiteheads coach)

The fans mentality has nothing to do with it.

 

[BigRnj]

…

I plainly say (and have for thirty years) that it is a big deal and I LOVE when we win that game ... just as much as I LOATHE when we lose it.
…
I've always enjoyed this board and plenty of posters/people on it, some of whom I know personally, but there is almost nothing in sports I enjoy as much as beating Rutgers, so when it happens, that feeling tells me all I need to know about the value of the series. Same as the feeling when we lose, actually. And as it tends to be pretty even overall, it remains a fun event, something I always look forward to ... even with whatever trepidation it carries with it.

FWIW I like the series and would like to keep it AND play more “local/regional opponents.”

that being said this game is entirely more important for shu then it is for Rutgers at this point.

Exhibit A) - look at the above bold text. That sentiment is much greater for shu fans then Rutgers fans. In a sense it is an understandable inferiority complex. The lesser fixated on the greater. Shu is a fine small regional school but is lesser on all matters and on all levels when compared to a huge, historic flagship state university in the Big 10. Our reach, resources, influence, and relevance are just greater (it’s not even close). I’m not dissing shu, it’s just a fact.

Shu in the grand scheme is largely irrelevant, but has a pretty good hoops team every few years. Good luck against creighton.

 

[BOGDANOVICH]

Sorry to disappoint you man. We're not Dartmouth

Dartmouth? It is a much more selective college than Rutgers,but Rutgers has many more highly ranked academic departments. However, that is beside the point. The point . . . is that Rutgers' impact on the world is dependent on its academic and research accomplishments and not on the sports/entertainment diversions that we focus on so much here. Sports is a tiny fraction of what goes on at Rutgers, and its success as a university is not a function of its athletic success, unlike some schools,such as LSU or Seton Hall, among many others, whose success as universities is contingent on athletics.

 

[bethlehemfan]

FWIW I like the series and would like to keep it AND play more “local/regional opponents.”

that being said this game is entirely more important for shu then it is for Rutgers at this point.

Exhibit A) - look at the above bold text. That sentiment is much greater for shu fans then Rutgers fans. In a sense it is an understandable inferiority complex. The lesser fixated on the greater. Shu is a fine small regional school but is lesser on all matters and on all levels when compared to a huge, historic flagship state university in the Big 10. Our reach, resources, influence, and relevance are just greater (it’s not even close). I’m not dissing shu, it’s just a fact.

Shu in the grand scheme is largely irrelevant, but has a pretty good hoops team every few years. Good luck against creighton.

I have wonderful shu friends and colleagues but I do sense there is a little bit of increased animosity because some folks couldn’t get into RU.

 

[MLBash93]

The fans mentality has nothing to do with it.

You are missing the point of what I meant

 

[bethlehemfan]

You are missing the point of what I meant

Fair enough.

 

[Night Man]

The series is great, even though it's not the same as it was from '98-'13 when the teams never seemed to be too far away from each other in the standings. Now, they exist in different worlds but they show up for one night in December, there's a lot of fan interest, and each team and fan base can take stock of where they are against the old neighbor before going back to their conference. Plus, for one moment in time we actually saw two NCAA quality teams on the court 2 years ago and the series has been played at a higher level the last few years than it had been in a long time.

 

[Joey Bags]

It’s the best school in the country, possibly the world. We wrestle them and play them in lacrosse. There’s basketball history between the schools too. Seton Hall is … just there. There’s nothing interesting, exciting or impressive about Seton Hall.

They’re also a low major with a nonexistent fanbase

 

[hinson32]

The biggest in state rivalry is Duke versus North Carolina.

Kentucky-Louisville gets really heated. Those fans bases HATE each other.

 

[HALL85]

They’re also a low major with a nonexistent fanbase

Then please explain why SHU has better home attendance than RU year after year.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Kentucky-Louisville gets really heated. Those fans bases HATE each other.

And Both fan bases love their rivalry games in hoops and football

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Then please explain why SHU has better home attendance than RU year after year.

Prob cuz the capacity is higher at The Rock.

But, the amount of fans following each program is roughly the same.

RU MBB Twitter followers: 29.3k
SHU MBB Twitter followers: 24k

 

[HALL85]

Prob cuz the capacity is higher at The Rock.

But, the amount of fans following each program is roughly the same.

RU MBB Twitter followers: 29.3k
SHU MBB Twitter followers: 24k

Does RU sell out most games? Capacity only matters if you fill it.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Does RU sell out most games? Capacity only matters if you fill it.

In previous seasons no. But neither did SHU.

SHU has the advantage of being able to open up the upper level and increase its capacity for certain games such as vs Nova.

If RU was able to do so they would get a few games of larger crowds than 8,500.

I think both teams have similar sized fanbases of diehards.

RU has more alums to draw on though.

 

[HALL85]

In previous seasons no. But neither did SHU.

SHU has the advantage of being able to open up the upper level and increase its capacity for certain games such as vs Nova.

If RU was able to do so they would get a few games of larger crowds than 8,500.

I think both teams have similar sized fanbases of diehards.

RU has more alums to draw on though.

But if you don’t sell out the RAC, what difference would it make to have additional capacity?

I agree that the attendance is relatively close with SH you having a historical advantage. I was just responding to the foolish post that said we had a “nonexistent Fanbase”

 

[bethlehemfan]

But if you don’t sell out the RAC, what difference would it make to have additional capacity?

I agree that the attendance is relatively close with SH you having a historical advantage. I was just responding to the foolish post that said we had a “nonexistent Fanbase”

Believe that was referring to Princeton.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

But if you don’t sell out the RAC, what difference would it make to have additional capacity?

I agree that the attendance is relatively close with SH you having a historical advantage. I was just responding to the foolish post that said we had a “nonexistent Fanbase”

Oh I agree that SHU has a good fanbase around the same size as RUs, per my previous posts.

My point was if RU was able to expand capacity , it would have a few times vs big rivals and their avg attendance would have been higher.

 

[hinson32]

Any pe

But if you don’t sell out the RAC, what difference would it make to have additional capacity?

I agree that the attendance is relatively close with SH you having a historical advantage. I was just responding to the foolish post that said we had a “nonexistent Fanbase”

If RU doesn't sell out all of our home games, but could sell an extra 1-2K tickets for games that are sold out, then average attendance would
increase.

 

[donnie_baseball_rivals]

Could not agree more, Bac. Take me back 20 years, I felt differently because the schools played in various sports. But I don’t care about Seton Hall from an academic perspective like I do Princeton, a team I’d much rather play. Do we play Seton Hall in any other sports anymore? I know there have been rumblings about baseball getting a series back on the books but that’s it.

Even in league, I care more about beating teams we play all the time — Northwestern (smart), Michigan (blue blood) as examples — for various reasons than I do a school Rutgers has no connection to with the exception of proximity and two hours every 365 or so days.

I'm struggling to comprehend your first paragraph. In athletics, what has the "academic perspective" have to do with it? You'd rather pound Princeton every year (with an occasional oops loss) than play another high major every year, with whom you have a 100-year rivalry?

And academically, I would submit that RU is much closer to SHU than to PU. No offense.

 

[IL Lusciato]

Hall dudes are still tagging me in SHU celebration posts as of this morning lol.

 

[IL Lusciato]

I'm struggling to comprehend your first paragraph. In athletics, what has the "academic perspective" have to do with it? You'd rather pound Princeton every year (with an occasional oops loss) than play another high major every year, with whom you have a 100-year rivalry?

And academically, I would submit that RU is much closer to SHU than to PU. No offense.

To be fair, RU is probably directly in the middle of the 2. It depends on the school/program though.

 

[donnie_baseball_rivals]

RU and Princeton may have taken different paths especially when Rutgers became the State University in the '50's but Princeton is literally right down the road from us. It's the easiest road trip either team can have and I personally have always liked going down to Jadwin which I usually try to do every year whether RU is playing them or not. Plus I'm a big fan of nostalgia and pre-'80's college basketball before it exploded and became just about TV and they represent that to me. I haven't been to a Seton Hall home game in probably over 20 years. I would consider going to the Meadowlands but no way I'm going to Newark if I have a choice, sorry.

In the '80's and '90's when we were stuck in the A-10 and Seton Hall benefitted from the invite to the Big East, it meant a lot to Rutgers because we were like how the hell did this happen? Then, when we were both in the Big East we could both impact each other's seasons, often played twice a year, and supposedly were recruiting rivals (I always thought that recruiting stuff was the most overrated part of this. We both get guys from Texas, Europe, whatever. It wasn't like we were just pulling in local kids.) But when we parted ways and we moved to a conference and were playing games against national brands Michigan State, Indiana, Michigan, Maryland, Ohio State and the rest, the game against Seton Hall suddenly became a helluva lot less important to me. Conference games matter the most and throw in those name brands and large alumni bases and it's a no brainer for me.

The game definitely means a lot more to Seton Hall not because we're better (which we obviously are not) but because their folks seem to hate Rutgers for being the state university with all its perceived resources and getting all the publicity (which they feel is undeserved) and being seen as a liberal school or whatever. I'm also not sure how juicy the rivalries are in the new Big East or how excited their fans get to play teams like Creighton other than fact that they're good. There are Big Ten alumni and fans all over the place that we've come to dislike but I wonder if anyone from Seton Hall has ever known or run into anyone that went to DePaul or Creighton or Butler.

So, to sum up:
-You're afraid of Newark -- I wonder why?
-SHU fans are all from Nutley/Belleville/Bloomfield and don't know anyone from the midwest -- and all their basketball players are a stone's throw away, too
-Despite the fact that the Big East drubbed the Big10 head-to-head this year, you still think the interleague play is inferior. As if Michigan State has the RU game circled on their calendar. (Meanwhile, the SJU and VU rivalries are more natural and better than anyone on the B10 slate in your case)
-The game means more to SHU but there's outrage when the perceived "red wave" couldn't all get tickets for Sunday's game.

Obviously, some tongue in cheek, but I don't know whether your post was more condescending or tone deaf.

 

[donnie_baseball_rivals]

To be fair, RU is probably directly in the middle of the 2. It depends on the school/program though.

Fair. But no one at Princeton considers either a peer. And, in the spirit of the original post, I look forward to the game every year, and obviously so do the packed houses at the Prudential Center and JMA.

 

[cm_13]

Fair. But no one at Princeton considers either a peer.

Yea, but **** them am I right?

 

[donnie_baseball_rivals]

Yea, but **** them am I right?

I could not agree more.

 

[NickRU714]

Princeton as a rival? WTF are people talking about?
We are in a P5 conference and people want our rival to be Princeton?

It's 2021 - not 1951.

I'm late 30s (Class of 2006) - grew up in SO/Maplewood for a bit and even hung out at SHU a lot in the summers.
Went to P.J. basketball camp as a little kid.
Playing basketball at the Fieldhouse and Walsh Gym.

The only basketball rival I care about it SHU (especially since we don't play Syracuse anymore).
I'd be fine if Rutgers played zero other "local" lower-tier schools.
If had to pick 1 school to win each year - it's SHU.
Obviously, conference games are important but all things being equal - zero games are as interesting as beating SHU.

NY/NJ has elite players each year - what better way than to entice them than to beat the only other local major basketball program.

 

[IL Lusciato]

Fair. But no one at Princeton considers either a peer. And, in the spirit of the original post, I look forward to the game every year, and obviously so do the packed houses at the Prudential Center and JMA.

Of course they don't lol. But agreed.

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

That mentality (by @Rutgers56) is the exact reason RU is where they have been in athletics.

RU Athletics want to be top 25 in everything.
RU Academics want to be like Princeton and Stanford etc.

Considering a good portion of our fans are like 60 and over and get off to academic rankings this is why we never pull the stuff like Willard did to build seton hall (hiring whiteheads coach)

Yeah. Seems like being an elite academic and athletic school works really well for Michigan, UVA, UNC, Stanford, Duke, among others. We don't need to be shady to win.