Roxana Proposal

SiuCubFan8

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This "proposal" would only help scheduling slightly if at all. Talking to fans and event workers during this year's playoffs, I've yet to find someone who likes it. Most don't like the 4-5's getting in.
We won't know how it will help scheduling until it happens and then a few years later to really know. At the end of the day I'm still trying to figure out what big "problem" this is trying to solve. How many teams are left playing less than nine games, not counting teams that had last minute open week(s) due to a program cancelling a season (that is a different conversation)? I don't see a reason to expand just to make the ADs job easier.
Personally, I do not like either proposal but I'll take the expanded playoffs over the "regional district" if it was one or the other.
 

cigaros

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Nov 14, 2018
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Playoff expansion wouldn't lead to any more quaterfinal blowouts though. Because if you think bad/underserving teams are going to make the expanded playoffs, they wouldn't make the quarterfinals. If someone who could possibly make a quarterfinal from the expanded set of teams, they certainly wouldn't get blown out any worse than the team they beat to get there.

Playoff expansion could potentially make round 2 slightly more interesting with different 4-5 or 3-6 teams having a chance to knock off teams from weaker conferences in the new "first" round.
The comment I made was lower on the list of importance and impact. The biggest concern is injuries. And typically injuries happen between teams which are mismatched. MacArthur (5-1) came to Rochester (5-1) and got a clock put on them after watching one of their players taken off the field in an ambulance because he made a poor decision to not go down when he was wrapped up. MacArthur ended the season 5-4, 5-5 after the playoffs. Rochester is still going at 11-1. Expanding the playoffs on the off chance to create an opportunity for a duplicate of the rare occurrence of a 2023 Nazareth is irresponsible and dangerous. 2023 Nazareth and 2025 Murphysboro (4-5) are not the same.
 
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jha618

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We won't know how it will help scheduling until it happens and then a few years later to really know. At the end of the day I'm still trying to figure out what big "problem" this is trying to solve. How many teams are left playing less than nine games, not counting teams that had last minute open week(s) due to a program cancelling a season (that is a different conversation)? I don't see a reason to expand just to make the ADs job easier.
Personally, I do not like either proposal but I'll take the expanded playoffs over the "regional district" if it was one or the other.
This is where im at as well. No idea what problem is really being solved here as a whole.
 

GR618

Redshirt
Aug 6, 2019
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One key factor I have not seen mentioned for whether or not the Roxana proposal will pass is how many schools without 11-man football will participate in the vote. I believe their votes were a deciding factor when districts were passed in 2018 and certainly can be again.

When districts passed, the vote was 324-307 in favor, which was less than a 3% margin. Even if you assume every team that played 11-man football at the time voted, at least 11% of the votes came from schools that did not participate in the sport. There is no way to be for certain how the schools without 11-man voted but it seems fair to assume they heavily favored districts (and will again favor Regionals) for several reasons.

First, most if not all schools without 11-man are much smaller than the average IHSA school. The prospect of 1A schools being able to play other 1A schools would seem appealing if you have a tiny enrollment yourself. Some smaller schools may have recently moved to 8-man but are thinking they could make the switch back up to 11-man if they were protected by Regionals, which would give them more reason to vote in favor of it.

Second, it seems fair to assume schools without 11-man are less competitive in sports (which can at least partially be attributed to smaller enrollments). Because of this, it’s harder to see them joining the train of thought that 3 and 4 win teams do not “deserve” a playoff spot.

Third, instituting Regionals/Districts would remove the impact of 11-man football on conferences in other sports. There are some ADs around the state who do not have 11-man football but have to deal with conference jumping/realignment because of it. From their perspective, 11-man football is a nuisance causing them problems and getting rid of football conferences would resolve the issue permanently.

There are more IHSA voting members without 11-man football now than there were in 2018, so their potential sway has only gone up since then.
 

4Afan

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One key factor I have not seen mentioned for whether or not the Roxana proposal will pass is how many schools without 11-man football will participate in the vote. I believe their votes were a deciding factor when districts were passed in 2018 and certainly can be again.

When districts passed, the vote was 324-307 in favor, which was less than a 3% margin. Even if you assume every team that played 11-man football at the time voted, at least 11% of the votes came from schools that did not participate in the sport. There is no way to be for certain how the schools without 11-man voted but it seems fair to assume they heavily favored districts (and will again favor Regionals) for several reasons.

First, most if not all schools without 11-man are much smaller than the average IHSA school. The prospect of 1A schools being able to play other 1A schools would seem appealing if you have a tiny enrollment yourself. Some smaller schools may have recently moved to 8-man but are thinking they could make the switch back up to 11-man if they were protected by Regionals, which would give them more reason to vote in favor of it.

Second, it seems fair to assume schools without 11-man are less competitive in sports (which can at least partially be attributed to smaller enrollments). Because of this, it’s harder to see them joining the train of thought that 3 and 4 win teams do not “deserve” a playoff spot.

Third, instituting Regionals/Districts would remove the impact of 11-man football on conferences in other sports. There are some ADs around the state who do not have 11-man football but have to deal with conference jumping/realignment because of it. From their perspective, 11-man football is a nuisance causing them problems and getting rid of football conferences would resolve the issue permanently.

There are more IHSA voting members without 11-man football now than there were in 2018, so their potential sway has only gone up since then.
I think the bigger question is which proposal ends up going to a vote. The Roxana proposal or the Monticello proposal which just expands the playoffs with out the regional scheduling. No chance both go to a vote so it will come down to whether the IHSA committee thinks regions/districts has a realistic chance at passing.
 

LWN_Pheonix

Senior
Oct 30, 2023
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The “pushback” that I got in favor of the expanded playoffs was
- if you lower the bar to get into the playoffs, teams will play a harder in season schedule….

IMO this is nothing more than a giant participation trophy
 

LWN_Pheonix

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Oct 30, 2023
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East St Louis petitioning up robbed the public schools of representation on the championship stage

they should really be forced to stay in 5A
 
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jha618

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East St Louis petitioning up robbed the public schools of representation on the championship stage

they should really be forced to stay in 5A
Doesnt matter what class they played in if the same team from Tuesday showed up.
 

cornerrat#1

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Jul 1, 2025
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All.... Open subject thread and away we go..... Last night the former HC from Chatham who now does a couple afternoons (4-6) of local sports talk on the radio went on his yearly boo hoo.

Started out talking about the Fyers and their all star team and how they are getting players. Then he yapped about how Esl should be in class 5A and not petition up. Of course "Coach " you would like that. Not going to happen. They have too much swagger and confidence.

I knew it was coming then his unhappiness with the privates. A yearly event from him especially at this time. Run right, run left, run up the middle and every now and then pass. 2-18 overall in regular season play and a double pop 0-7 in the postseason. That offense never seemed to work well against the Cyclones. Of course there was the 1998 season he brings up often.

The latest HC has figured it out by the way..... Ratsy
 

k1867

Junior
Jul 1, 2024
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All.... Open subject thread and away we go..... Last night the former HC from Chatham who now does a couple afternoons (4-6) of local sports talk on the radio went on his yearly boo hoo.

Started out talking about the Fyers and their all star team and how they are getting players. Then he yapped about how Esl should be in class 5A and not petition up. Of course "Coach " you would like that. Not going to happen. They have too much swagger and confidence.

I knew it was coming then his unhappiness with the privates. A yearly event from him especially at this time. Run right, run left, run up the middle and every now and then pass. 2-18 overall in regular season play and a double pop 0-7 in the postseason. That offense never seemed to work well against the Cyclones. Of course there was the 1998 season he brings up often.

The latest HC has figured it out by the way..... Ratsy
Did they not beat a private school the week prior?
 

jha618

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All.... Open subject thread and away we go..... Last night the former HC from Chatham who now does a couple afternoons (4-6) of local sports talk on the radio went on his yearly boo hoo.

Started out talking about the Fyers and their all star team and how they are getting players. Then he yapped about how Esl should be in class 5A and not petition up. Of course "Coach " you would like that. Not going to happen. They have too much swagger and confidence.

I knew it was coming then his unhappiness with the privates. A yearly event from him especially at this time. Run right, run left, run up the middle and every now and then pass. 2-18 overall in regular season play and a double pop 0-7 in the postseason. That offense never seemed to work well against the Cyclones. Of course there was the 1998 season he brings up often.

The latest HC has figured it out by the way..... Ratsy
Complain about ESL "all star" team and then your suggestion is they move down a class? Seems logical.
 
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cornerrat#1

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Jul 1, 2025
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Did they not beat a private school the week prior?
All.... Yes indeed. He didn't exactly by the way predict a win against East Side after that game with the Hilltoppers but did mention on the radio the upcoming game with the Flyers could be talked about for ages in Chatham. I had a conversation with a fellow poster on this site abou that and said yes it would should Esl lay a 100 on them.... Ratsy
 
Aug 7, 2024
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I have said this in the past, about expanded playoffs, and the possible legal actions of injuries. You put teams in the playoffs with 3/4 wins the state, the schools and the IHSA are opening themselves to civil cases. The state needs to act as the parent, which it does now and poorly to add, and say NO to allowing disadvantaged teams into the playoffs. I buddy in Chicago, a lawyer, said its a grave mistake and misjustice to add "unworthy" teams into the playoffs! On this merit alone... The state needs to take off the drag costume and at as a rational adult!
 
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jha618

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I have said this in the past, about expanded playoffs, and the possible legal actions of injuries. You put teams in the playoffs with 3/4 wins the state, the schools and the IHSA are opening themselves to civil cases. The state needs to act as the parent, which it does now and poorly to add, and say NO to allowing disadvantaged teams into the playoffs. I buddy in Chicago, a lawyer, said its a grave mistake and misjustice to add "unworthy" teams into the playoffs! On this merit alone... The state needs to take off the drag costume and at as a rational adult!
I think that is a wildly ridiculous and overly dramatic take. Iowa allows 3 win teams in. MO allows winless teams in the playoffs.
 
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4Afan

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I think that is a wildly ridiculous and overly dramatic take. Iowa allows 3 win teams in. MO allows winless teams in the playoffs.
Everyone gets makes it in Indiana and they have a blind draw so an 0-9 team could play a 9-0 team.

This is a bad take. A serious injury is just as likely to happen between two 9-0 teams. Plus the top 16 teams would receive a bye so the 3 win teams would likely be playing a 6-3 team. Plus the classes don't change so it's not like a 3-6 2A team will be going up against a 7-2 7A team.
 

WIU@78

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Joe Ganz was superhuman! AND he singlehandedly killed two programs…AA Stagg and Big Red..The University of Nebraska. Never to be relevant at his level since.
 
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WIU@78

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Thats my guy!!!!!

He has killed two football programs for the lifetime achievement award. Joe killed AA Stagg HS football and Nebraska football has been decimated as well. Only meaning that he was the gold standard and those teams could not reach that level again upon his departure!
 
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PowerI66

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Jul 10, 2025
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I have said this in the past, about expanded playoffs, and the possible legal actions of injuries. You put teams in the playoffs with 3/4 wins the state, the schools and the IHSA are opening themselves to civil cases. The state needs to act as the parent, which it does now and poorly to add, and say NO to allowing disadvantaged teams into the playoffs. I buddy in Chicago, a lawyer, said its a grave mistake and misjustice to add "unworthy" teams into the playoffs! On this merit alone... The state needs to take off the drag costume and at as a rational adult!
Billy Madison Shut Up GIF
 
Aug 7, 2024
713
467
63
I think that is a wildly ridiculous and overly dramatic take. Iowa allows 3 win teams in. MO allows winless teams in the playoffs.
Until your the parent of a player on a 3-6 team that plays a 9-0 EStL and gets mauled. Sure you want little Johnny to play but when Johnny ends up in the ICU with zero feeling in his legs you will blame the system right?!!! My statement was worse case and that's how you have to evaluate any change! It isn't all roses and Crown! I guess we can hand out waivers before said playoffs but this situation arises and bet your lame *** some parent sues and wins... Tell this couldn't happen in today's America?!
 

4Afan

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Until your the parent of a player on a 3-6 team that plays a 9-0 EStL and gets mauled. Sure you want little Johnny to play but when Johnny ends up in the ICU with zero feeling in his legs you will blame the system right?!!! My statement was worse case and that's how you have to evaluate any change! It isn't all roses and Crown! I guess we can hand out waivers before said playoffs but this situation arises and bet your lame *** some parent sues and wins... Tell this couldn't happen in today's America?!
You're not making the point you think you are.

Why do these worst case scenario injuries only apply to an expanded playoffs? ESL played 0-9 Alton in conference and no kid from Alton was paralyzed.

What you're talking about is much more likely to happen in the regular season and you don't mention that.
 
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SiuCubFan8

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Until your the parent of a player on a 3-6 team that plays a 9-0 EStL and gets mauled. Sure you want little Johnny to play but when Johnny ends up in the ICU with zero feeling in his legs you will blame the system right?!!! My statement was worse case and that's how you have to evaluate any change! It isn't all roses and Crown! I guess we can hand out waivers before said playoffs but this situation arises and bet your lame *** some parent sues and wins... Tell this couldn't happen in today's America?!
Huh???? But it’s ok in regular season with some of those teams ESL plays… take a lap.
 
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PowerI66

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Players on below .500 teams can't defend themselves now? Didn't you say you were a long time coach? Did you not practice hard against the scout team?

You know what, I get it. @AlabamaTimberwolf is a troll
 
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