Rick Pitino keep it classy

[Ineverplayedthegame]

Rick would have taken the next NBA job. He would have never lasted at UK. He is not a man of the people. He is a man above the people. He always felt he was too good to deal with the "Dale's of Harlan" on the call in shows. Joanne wanted the fast train out of town also.

 

[JasonS.]

I suspect Rick would have won two more titles, for a total of three, and would have been to about five more Final Fours in the 18 seasons since he left Kentucky.

Guess what? That's exactly what Kentucky has done without him.

Here's my assessment:

Tubby caught lightning in a bottle and won it all in 1998. I don't think Rick wins it with that team -- it was a mix of guys he considered more or less after thoughts. And his recruiting was already falling off by then -- he signed ONE player after winning it all in 1996, Jamaal Magloire.

I think he would have stabilized recruiting and would have gone to a couple more Final Fours in the early 2000s -- surpassing Tubby and BCG, for sure. But winning it all is very, very hard -- see Pitino's teams in 1993 and 1997 as confirmation. Both, arguably, should have won. Let's say Pitino wins one championship in that stretch between 1999 and 2009.

As for the past six years, no way -- No Way -- a coach 20-plus years into his tenure at one school brings the energy and focus Cal has brought since 2010. And no way Pitino re-invents himself as a one-and-done coach. He probably would have continued to win an occasional Final Four. And let's give him another 2013-style championship -- a perfect storm team in a very down year. But no way he goes four times to the Final Four in five years as Cal has done. That's not how his post-1990s system works.

We'll never know, but I think that's a realistic assessment of where Pitino would have ended up, given where things were when he left in April, 1997.

I think that's probably about true. Tubby initially (with the exception of the point guard position) for his first several years recruited at a higher level than Pitino was at the end. And Tubby pretty consistently recruited better at Kentucky than Pitino did/has at Louisville.

Notable exception to that is Michael Bradley. If Pitino stays, Michael Bradley probably stays in Lexington and has a great career. Everything about that guy screamed great Pitino player, down to him being a complete tool.

But then you probably don't get a player like Tayshaun Prince (Marvin Stone, etc.). Who knows.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

I think you're looking at it wrong.

He won one at UK. He won one at UL. UK also won one while Rick was in Boston. That would get him to three titles.

Now figure in that he's at UK instead of UL. Better program, better resources.

Realize that UL was down a bit when he took that job. With UK, he left on an uptick, so there would have been no rebuilding necessary.

I think at least one additional title over 2 decades of time makes the most sense.

Obviously this is all conjecture. Pitino surely could have melted down or burnt out before any of this was possible.

You guys could certainly be right, it's not something I'd want to argue.....

 

[southernsodbuster]

Yep, seems pretty clear. The fans immediate reaction seems to confirm it.

The most disgusting part of it, to me, is how Pitino tried to play the victim in his weak denial by claiming horrible things were being yelled at him when the audio on the video doesn't confirm that at all. All anybody yells is something like "one and done". Besides, Pitino is very well compensated to take abuse from opposing fans and should quit playing the victim when the video shows the fans behaving much better than him.

UK should go ahead and take down his banner. This was just the final straw.

Why would he even mention about horrible things being said if he was not guilty. He would instead ask that they go back and look at the video frame by frame and prove he never did this.

 

[Xception]

People thinking it would have been a rinse and repeat scenario for Pitino are missing some influential factors . In reality had he stayed the NBA rumors would have continued his entire career and impacted recruiting . It was already impacting recruiting before he left , he had several of the players that went to Duke that year on campus and whiffed on all of them . I think it may have been Burgess , Brand , Avery and Battier on the same visit . There was no bumper crop of recruits coming after our title year and the reason given by either Brand or Avery was the Pitino to the NBA rumors .

The press was also losing it's effectiveness , maybe we foul teams to death like UL . He may have won another title but 4 or 5 would my have happened . You can throw out McGrady and Dirk but that's no guarantee of anything . Just for the record Cal at UL would have been scary , he throttled UK in Maui as the Memphis coach . MEMPHIS

 

[TroutBum]

Bump

 

[ulismyman]

And most people believe he knew nothing about strippergate....how naive are you people...he is a liar adulterer, cheater...sore loser no class idiot

 

[jrpross_rivals]

I could see him in the same discussion as K, honestly. The roll he was on between '93 and '97 was pretty awesome. He was the closest thing to today's Cal as there was as far as recruiting at that point. Kentucky just attracts a different type of kid than Louisville. I'd have been shocked if he didn't win 3~ between 98 and now. All conjecture of course. I can't help but wonder if he thinks about it too.

 

[Bank Cat]

I suspect Rick would have won two more titles, for a total of three, and would have been to about five more Final Fours in the 18 seasons since he left Kentucky.

Guess what? That's exactly what Kentucky has done without him.

Here's my assessment:

Tubby caught lightning in a bottle and won it all in 1998. I don't think Rick wins it with that team -- it was a mix of guys he considered more or less after thoughts. And his recruiting was already falling off by then -- he signed ONE player after winning it all in 1996, Jamaal Magloire.

I think he would have stabilized recruiting and would have gone to a couple more Final Fours in the early 2000s -- surpassing Tubby and BCG, for sure. But winning it all is very, very hard -- see Pitino's teams in 1993 and 1997 as confirmation. Both, arguably, should have won. Let's say Pitino wins one championship in that stretch between 1999 and 2009.

As for the past six years, no way -- No Way -- a coach 20-plus years into his tenure at one school brings the energy and focus Cal has brought since 2010. And no way Pitino re-invents himself as a one-and-done coach. He probably would have continued to win an occasional Final Four. And let's give him another 2013-style championship -- a perfect storm team in a very down year. But no way he goes four times to the Final Four in five years as Cal has done. That's not how his post-1990s system works.

We'll never know, but I think that's a realistic assessment of where Pitino would have ended up, given where things were when he left in April, 1997.

1993 definitely. 1997 was a gift to us fans for the most part. The unexpected loss of Antoine Walker who declared and then DA's injury, I think it was his best coaching job with the possible exception of the Unforgettables or his very first team. There were a few games when Cameron Mills carried us! Kansas was the best team that year, but we should have beaten 'Zona. Damn Simon - how many times did we foul him on that pump fake and send him to the line? And poor Nazr, just hit 2 of 6 free throws!

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

How is that unrealistic over 26 years? He already had one, then almost another right after it. Would he have won it in 1998? Tubby did. So there are two there. It would not be unrealistic at all to think he could have won 2-3 more in the last 17 years. Freaking UCONN won 4 over a 16 year period.

You mention the Uconn thing as if it somehow makes the accomplishment more mundane. Well, no.. Calhoun is one of the greatest coaches of all time and Ollie had a tubby-like run of luck on the back of an unstoppable player.
So setting aside Uconn for a minute..
If you are ever winning championships at an average of over every five years, you are performing at a level that has only ever been topped by Wooden and Rupp.

So it depends on what you mean by unrealistic. Is it impossible? Obviously not. Is it a given when you match a HOF coach with an elite program? Not even close. Now Rick was having historical success then, just like Cal is currently. But even for coaching legends, it's damn hard to keep the fire consistent from year to year over decades.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I think that's probably about true. Tubby initially (with the exception of the point guard position) for his first several years recruited at a higher level than Pitino was at the end. And Tubby pretty consistently recruited better at Kentucky than Pitino did/has at Louisville.

Notable exception to that is Michael Bradley. If Pitino stays, Michael Bradley probably stays in Lexington and has a great career. Everything about that guy screamed great Pitino player, down to him being a complete tool.

But then you probably don't get a player like Tayshaun Prince (Marvin Stone, etc.). Who knows.

If I am not mistaken, Prince committed early. Seems like it was before Pitino left. Either that or he was interested in UK before Tubby came on board. For some reason, I think Prince would have been here regardless. I don't think it would have effected recruiting in a negative way to have Pitino instead of Tubby.

I think we have same amount of titles with Pitino still at the helm. He probably wins one in 1998 or 1999. Then maybe one in the early 2000's. He would have three and we would be sitting at 8.

Of course, we would be talking about how the game has passed him by and wondering when he would retire.

Still, Pitino would be in the discussion for best coach in the land with K. There would be countless debates between us and the Dukies. Dukies would be saying 5 is better than 3 and we would be saying that K had a 10 year head start and didn't have to rebuild after probation.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Rick would have taken the next NBA job. He would have never lasted at UK. He is not a man of the people. He is a man above the people. He always felt he was too good to deal with the "Dale's of Harlan" on the call in shows. Joanne wanted the fast train out of town also.

Agree. I'm happy UL is stuck with the Crypt Keeper and hope they have to deal with his son as his chosen replacement.

 

[kybassfan]

After seeing Pitino in action after he left Kentucky, I've come to believe he has some character flaws that would have surfaced no matter where he was. I don't believe he could have handled the success that would have come at Kentucky without manifesting very similar behavior.

Its impossible to know for sure. It could have been all cream and cookies. Or it could have been a PR disaster. Frankly, I'll take John Calipari over the dinner table trysts and hooker recruiting.

 

[Chuckinden]

It's hard to imagine, but I definitely think Rick would have a few more titles and within shot of eclipsing Rupp in all time wins. CM would have had a lot of influence on Rick. I remember when Rick wanted to have some music played during the game, like "Hit the Road Jack" when an opposing player fouled out and some others. CM literally said no, that's not who we are at Kentucky. Who knows what would have happened post CM.

The RP years were the most exciting I have ever witnessed in 50 yrs of following the Cats, but he didn't just burn a lot of bridges when he took the UL job, he obliterated them.

 

[Catapult_rivals218351]

Leave it up. If you start pulling banners of folks that went astray after leaving UK then you have to take a hard look at some other banners. And you'd have to start with Richie Farmer.

The problem with this argument is that Richie and Rex for all their failings are still UK guys through and through. RP was never really a UK guy (he's always been all about himself) and he can't even pretend he is any longer! I'm sure UK will not take down the banner but I would be ok with it if they did.

 

[blubo]

first off, if he had stayed in lexington and if his behavior would have played out like it has in luhval (sypher etc), he wouldn't have kept his job. also, for whatever reason, he just can't reel in the oad's like cal, k, self or ol' roy. of course beakbrains will tell you he doesn't want a team of oad's, which we all know is bull. maybe his recruiting would have been more like those other coaches had he stayed at uk, and his success would have been much greater. who knows.

 

[bucsrule8872]

if Pitino had never left UK I think he'd be mentioned in the same breath as Coach K regarding the all-time greats. I think it's a fair assumption to think he'd have at least 4 titles by now.

Titles are really hard to come by. I think 4 would have been Pitino's ceiling.

Of course, K might have missed out on a few recruits because of Pitino in the 2000's. There were guys that went to Duke that might have went to UK if Pitino was there instead of Tubby.

Who knows, they might be tied at four a piece right now. Talk about fueling a rivalry.

I wonder if Pitino would have embraced OAD at UK? Not sure.

It's all hypothetical, but I don't think we would have that many more titles now with Pitino.

I like the idea of having a relatively young Cal with several seasons left, than an aging Pitino on his last legs right now. Especially considering we would likely have Little Rick waiting in the wings to take over. Ugh!

 

[blubo]

It's hard to imagine, but I definitely think Rick would have a few more titles and within shot of eclipsing Rupp in all time wins. CM would have had a lot of influence on Rick. I remember when Rick wanted to have some music played during the game, like "Hit the Road Jack" when an opposing player fouled out and some others. CM literally said no, that's not who we are at Kentucky. Who knows what would have happened post CM.

The RP years were the most exciting I have ever witnessed in 50 yrs of following the Cats, but he didn't just burn a lot of bridges when he took the UL job, he obliterated them.

he blew those bridges up with L1C4.

 

[billue]

we would be playing in Rick arena by know.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

He's a great, HOF coach....but ours is better. If he wasn't Rick would actually beat us atleast sometimes. Let's summarize:

If we play at home we win, away we win, neutral court we win, if their favored we win, in years their backcourt is better we win, when their post is better we win, if we have injuries we win, if we get down we win, if they have more experience we win, if we are in foul trouble we win, if they have better shooters we win, if our freshman play terrible we win, if they're a deeper team we win...it literally does not matter the situation, we win the game.

Oddly enough cards fans always claim Cal only wins with talent but Pitino coaches..interesting what did Briscoe, Skal, and Murray do. Nothing. He beat you with upperclassmen, 2nd rd picks, and a kid from Richmond, KY.

Let's not forget he's a 6 million dollar a yr, paid crybaby, who complains about refs at halftime, refuses to do postgames, and makes ungracious comments on radio afterwards. I know a coach who doesn't do that, will admit defeat, lives in the moment, has lively halftime interviews after getting T'd up and gets yelled at in every arena in the country but doesn't flip people off.

Face Turd fans your coach is a joke..he has turned completely into what you are...little brother

 

[blubo]

we would be playing in Rick arena by know.

what a thought.

 

[JasonS.]

If I am not mistaken, Prince committed early. Seems like it was before Pitino left. Either that or he was interested in UK before Tubby came on board. For some reason, I think Prince would have been here regardless. I don't think it would have effected recruiting in a negative way to have Pitino instead of Tubby.

No, Prince was in Tubby's second class and a 100% Tubby recruit. Only early Pitino commit in that second class was J.P. Blevins.

Prince was an early lean to UCLA/Kansas before we got him late. This was after the Vincent Yarbrough saga of 1997.

 

[UpstateNYCat]

If your ex-wife ran off with someone you despised would you still invite her to family reunions?

Given that my ex-wife is probably my sister. Yes, I would still invite her to family reunions.

 

[UKortho]

Why do you think he'd have won 3 national titles at UK when he's only one one at Louisville?

Unless you think they all would've come in that 4 year period he was with the Celtics? There's a slight chance of that - he was on such a roll when he left UK, maybe if he never leaves, he somehow gets to 4. But the obvious question about that is, would that 4 year period have possibly been that much better than 1994-97, the 4 years before, because we were on a serious, serious roll in those 4 years - and he had 1 title to show for it. Like someone else said, I think you're underestimating the amount of luck, skill, karma, sugar and spice it takes to win, even if you have the best team.

Beyond that 4 year period with the Celtics, I'm not sure how you argue he gets 3 titles. It's not like he left Boston and quit coaching, where all you have is conjecture about how he might have done. He has a record! He's been coaching. And he's won exactly 1 title in all that time....

He was on a roll when he left. Had Derrick Anderson been healthy he would have won in 96, 97, and 98. Very easy to see him winning one/two more in the 17 years that followed.

 

[Poetax]

What if, back in 1997, Pitino thanked the Celtics but turned them down and committed to being the head coach at Kentucky. I know people may say now that they hate Pitino, but if you could of had him stay and build his own dynasty at UK, where do you think we'd be at the moment? I can't imagine anyone would have NOT wanted him to remain as our coach back then, regardless of how they feel about him now.

First off, Dirk Nowitzki and Tracy McGrady may have been Wildcats. Jermaine O'Neal too. I think Michael Bradley sticks around for the full four seasons instead of transferring to Villanova. That being said, if Pitino had stuck around until now, making him the 2nd longest tenured coach at UK behind Rupp at 26 seasons, going on 27. With the pedigree of being the coach at UK and the atmosphere around the program, I think he avoids a lot of the pitfalls that have plagued him at UL.

During his 6 non-probation seasons at UK, he produced a round of 32 team, two Elite Eight teams, a Final Four Team, A National Runner-Up, and a National Championship team. I don't think it is reaching too far to assume that he would have kept that trend going, finishing the 90's with another National Championship (probably 98 or 99) and spending much of the 2000's as the premiere program in college basketball going to multiple Final Fours and winning (at least) another National Championship. I'd imagine he'd have begun to slow down a bit by 2010 without much pressure from the program down the road and by 2015 would have produced another couple of Final Fours and another National Championship, bringing his total titles to (at least) 4.

Pitino is a great coach, but I think he greatly diminished his legacy in basketball the day he left for Boston. Had he stayed here I firmly believe he would be considered among the all-time 4 or 5 greatest coaches to ever coach the game. As it is, he's still a hall of famer, but I dont think he'll ever be considered among the top 10 all-time.

The real question is would his ego have gotten so big here that he would have just used an Italian restaurant here. And second would he have recruited the OADs later in his career if he stayed?

 

[LmdCat]

First of all if your birthdate falls behind 1987, you don't need to respond for obvious reasons.

He would be on par with coach K, and I believe it's that simple. It is one of the biggest mistakes in the history of sports and will always be.he also showed how hard it is to win with the Louisville brand. There's no denying it.

I agree with you about being on par with coach K or possibly exceeding coach K's accomplishments. I think that is the reason why little r gets so emotional when he comes back. Considering where he is now, he knows that he greatly screwed up.

 

[LmdCat]

The 'if so-and-so were healthy' argument could be applied to many, many teams, not least UK in 2014 and 2015. The fact is, Pitino WAS the UK coach in 1997, did a fantastic job, and finished second -- dodging the two clearly superior teams of Kansas and North Carolina along the way.

As for 1998, I've never believed Pitino would have won with that team. I think that collection was a perfect group to respond to Tubby Smith, but NOT to play Pitino's more frenetic, gambling-on-defense style. Of course, we'll never know, just as we won't know if Michigan responded to Steve Fisher replacing Bill Frieder and got on a roll to win it in 1989. At a minimum, I think one has to say it is far from certain Pitino gets a title in 1998, just because a team of guys he recruited won it all.

One final point: I think it is more accurate to say Pitino was on a roll from 1993 through 1996, than to say he was still on a roll when he left.

His recruiting had fallen off a cliff after 1995, despite being at the top of the heap. I always felt RP hated recruiting and it was one reason he left Kentucky for the NBA -- not realizing how much he'd hate some of the things about that job soon enough.

You are crazy. That 98 team was RP's team and he was better suited to coach that team than Tubby. It was stated by individuals close to the team that the game was won because the players played it like they were being coached by RP.

 

[Dirk2Bowie]

http://[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/Ronnie_Day/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PSX_20151228_172632_zps33c7nbud.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w490/Ronnie_Day/Mobile%20Uploads/PSX_20151228_172632_zps33c7nbud.jpg[/URL][/IMG] Innocent explaination...Rick was just attempting to calculate his Win-Loss total.

 

[Icecoldbrewdoggy]

Why would he even mention about horrible things being said if he was not guilty. He would instead ask that they go back and look at the video frame by frame and prove he never did this.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. He wants people to believe that he heard things said to him that were so awful, so HORRIBLE that he couldn't repeat them to a reporter........... and he responded by throwing up the "we're number 1" sign?

HAHAHA!!!!!

 

[willievic]

All of this is what might have been, and it never happened, and will never happen. So one OP's post is just as good as another one's.
What we do know,is, we have a good coach, and Loserville and Tommy Turtleneck have two slime-bags.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[UK90]

The problem with this argument is that Richie and Rex for all their failings are still UK guys through and through. RP was never really a UK guy (he's always been all about himself) and he can't even pretend he is any longer! I'm sure UK will not take down the banner but I would be ok with it if they did.

Rex is not up there, and never will be, so I'm not sure why you're even discussing him.

As for Richie, the problem is not just that he turned out to be a thieving criminal in later life, instead it's that he NEVER should've been put up there in the first place. The first problem is that he was simply a bad college basketball player, nothing more than a glorified scrub who usually hurt us far more than helped when he was on the floor. Richie was put up there for the wrong reasons, and based on the wrong motives, him being up there was already a mistake even before his later troubles.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

The fact he flipped fans off doesn't bother me as much as the fact he Lied/Denied doing it,the man is a Habitual Liar and I can't stand Liars.

Regardless of video evidence, the fact that he denied it tells me beyond doubt that he did it. He even said he was signaling We're number 1.

I don't need him to suffer any consequences for it other than having to admit he did it. Perhaps if I had one grain of respect for him as a human being, I would be surprised. I do not and I am not.

 

[willievic]

Rex is not up there, and never will be, so I'm not sure why you're even discussing him.

As for Richie, the problem is not just that he turned out to be a thieving criminal in later life, instead it's that he NEVER should've been put up there in the first place. The first problem is that he was a simply a bad college basketball player, nothing more than a glorified scrub who usually hurt us more than helped when he was on the floor. Richie was put up there for the wrong reasons, and based on the wrong motives, him being up there was already a mistake even before his later troubles.

Richie was a very important part of the unforgetables. None of the unforgetables as an individual player were good enough to be up there, but as a team, they ALL deserved to be there.
I am against taking any banners down. The people on those banners should be judged by what they did at UK, not after they left UK.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[Mike-D]

Put a condom on it.

[laughing]

 

[Catapult_rivals218351]

Rex is not up there, and never will be, so I'm not sure why you're even discussing him.

As for Richie, the problem is not just that he turned out to be a thieving criminal in later life, instead it's that he NEVER should've been put up there in the first place. The first problem is that he was a simply a bad college basketball player, nothing more than a glorified scrub who usually hurt us far more than helped when he was on the floor. Richie was put up there for the wrong reasons, and based on the wrong motives, him being up there was already a mistake even before his later troubles.

I know Rex isn't up there. Prob didn't express myself well but the point I was trying to make was in reference to the argument that it only matters what they did while at UK that matters. I submit that may be true for those that are still UK guys but doesn't hold for someone who arguably never was and certainly isn't now. Still I would not expect the banner to come down.

 

[LmdCat]

LOL. The infamous "individuals close to the team." That's one of the bigger BS apocryphal stories in Kentucky basketball history. The 1998 Kentucky team played very much the way Tubby's teams at Georgia had played, which had elements of Pitino's style (Tubby had been a top assistant after all) but also was distinctly his own. Tubby made several terrific bench adjustments during the tournament of the type Pitino was never known to employ.

How do you know? You have no more knowledge about this than I do. As for bench adjustments, he wouldn't have had to make those adjustments if he hadn't worked so hard to turn one of the best 3 point shooting teams into a team of players that were afraid to use it.

I dislike RP as much as any UK fan, but it is laughable to suggest that Tubby was a better coach.

 

[TopCatCal]

Pitino didn't mean anything vulgar by sticking his middle finger in the air. He was just letting everyone know how many times his teams has beaten UK this decade.

 

[wildcatdon]

I am pretty sure Nazi was 0 for 6 at the line in the Arizona game. That was a completely botched game . That title was ours.

 

[jaknfo90]

Sorry ..but even Jerry Eaves said on his show this afternoon that if true he should be punished because coaches should be above that

I'm not arguing that point, you're right, but it won't happen. It especially won't happen at UL where Jurich could give a s**t about such things or Pitino would already be gone and Petrino would not have been rehired. The only way it happens is if the outcry is loud and widespread; to date that really isn't happening.

 

[Dirk2Bowie]

Pitino was simply calculating his record vs. UK.