Reid Travis
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I do not recall seeing Zoubek post up in isolation and scoring with his back to the basket, more than say 2-3 times that year (and 2 of those were prob in the UMD blow out at home) when it all seemed to come together. His 5.6 ppg were mostly putbacks on the glass, and that was one year in his max offensive production.
You want to knock Vrank for not being highly recruited? I won't debate that. You want to use Zoubs feet injuries? I won't debate that either. I will however debate the notion that Vrank wouldn't be able to do the same. There's nothing special that Zoubs did, especially offensively, that Vrank likely couldn't do.
Absolutely no comparison. Zoubek always had the potential, but no health. Vrank offers nothing.
No health? He played his entire Senior year, and 12.6mpg over 133 games in his career (starting 37). You'd have to have some quality health to play that much (even if banged up a bit).
Travis was a 19 and 8 guy last year. If it is even a possibility, Duke needs to pursue.
I know everyone is piling on the Pac 12 right now but this kid is tough, experienced and can play. He can help us.
I never, ever knocked Vrank. Saying I don't think he can provide for us what Zoubek did doesn't mean I'm knocking him. Brian was just a better player. He averaged over 10rpg the last two months of the season, and for the year averaged almost eight per game in less than 19 minutes/game. That's elite-level rebounding.
To say Vrank can do the same, based on a hunch, would be like me saying Justin Robinson could do the same, too. This isn't about Vrank as much as it is about Zoubek....comparing the two just doesn't make a lot of sense other than, again, both being tall and white.
What set Brian back more than anything were his offseason injuries. He had two separate offseason surgeries while at Duke, and played all but 12 games of his sophomore season injury-free. To say that didn't play a part in his development and/or progression is shortsighted. He went entire summers without being able to play basketball or work on conditioning.
Simply put, he was not the model of health during his time at Duke. That's just a fact.
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I remember Z playing really well the first few minutes he was in games his junior year. Then he would get tired. His senior year he was finally healthy and in shape.
Overemphasized the word knock or maybe our definitions aren't the same. Either way, you're selling the kid short. I'd love to see what you said about Zoubek after 3 years, and whether you predicted the coming out party mid- Senior year. Lastly, their agility, defense, isolation ability and pick-setting are about the same talent wise through 3 years so it's beyond being tall and white.
Watching Vrank this year he seems skilled and intelligent. He's just a bit slow. But I think he could give us a solid 5 minutes per game this year and not hurt us. I like him and hope he gets at least some meaningful minutes this year.
Did you see the words "no health"? That means missing a majority or all of a career. I recognize that Zoubs fought injuries (see above), but this ridiculous idea of small or absolute sample sizes adds little to the convo. That's why I stressed "no health".
Zoubek had chronic foot problems, which held him back. I'm nit sure how this is a subject of debate.
Even with those he was substantially more productive in his first three years at Duke than Vrankovic was in his first three years at Duke.
Vrankovic is a nice guy, a good student and a valuable contributor to the Duke program. But he makes most of those contributions in practice and I expect that to be the case next season There's simply no plausible reason to expect him to be a major contributor next season.
I could see him giving Duke five MPG next season, depending on the final roster. But that's about his ceiling, IMO.
Even with those he was substantially more productive in his first three years at Duke than Vrankovic was in his first three years at Duke.
Vrankovic is a nice guy, a good student and a valuable contributor to the Duke program. But he makes most of those contributions in practice and I expect that to be the case next season There's simply no plausible reason to expect him to be a major contributor next season.
I could see him giving Duke five MPG next season, depending on the final roster. But that's about his ceiling, IMO.
You're much better at this stuff than I am.
So I'll just say this...."what Jim said."
No one is debating the injuries that I can tell at least.
Zoubs definitely didn't deal with better players in the same position (ahead of them) than Vrank did. IIRC Zoubs even played the bench when we went very undersized at 6'8 and 6'8 on the frontline. Vrank has been behind guys like MP3, Giles, Bolden, Carter, Jav, MB.....definitely a difference in talent levels they're behind in each case. Does that mean he's as highly ranked or has similar raw talent as Brian did? No. I will continue to argue that we won't know what a healthy Vrank can do vs an "injurey-riddled" Zoubek can do in their last (or maybe even last-half-of) year.
As for ceiling (or floor, can't remember) I remember a buddy saying if Vrank played even one minute against MSU this past year he'd get owned. He played 5, scored 3 points, had a crucial offensive rebound, but had 2 ticky-tack fouls. I guess since this place is full of small sample sizes (lol) I'll say his ceiling could be higher.
With a solid cast of talent around Vrank, I think he could give good minutes. He would be like a freshmen in the sense that it would only be fair to guage him come mid to late January, after playing 10-15 minutes a game. Don't know if that will ever happen though.
From the time I've seen with Vrank I've liked. I wish he did get some burn
Here's the thing. I think he can be productive, too, in a reduced role. Not anywhere near the productivity we got from Zoubek, though. That's been my point all along.
If we don't get any more bigs, Carter leaves and one of the bigs gets injured Vrank will probably see some time. Are we better off with Jack at the 5 in that scenario? I know he's shorter but he's solid. If we were in foul trouble I mean.
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Vrank's greatest asset is clearly his size. If he ever manages to use that size effectively he could get some minutes. But if Carter came back or Travis came that would eliminate his minutes.
In certain games. Robinson only had a few games he was in but that also depended on match-up. See bigger opponents where Vrank played before them (MSU).
Again....I don't think this is anyone saying Vrank isn't capable of being serviceable in some respects. It's just a silly comparison to Zoubek.
Understood a while back, but as stated above it's not a "silly" comparison, IMO. I can be convinced otherwise on topics but I haven't been here. All good, good chat, always appreciate differing, respectful views!
I can see how Vrank and Zoub would merit a rather natural comparison just from the mere eye test. We'll just have to see how things play out, and if he gets as much PT in his senior year.
It actually seemed like we saw more of Vrank in his sophomore year than his junior campaign.Wish him the very best.OFC
It actually seemed like we saw more of Vrank in his sophomore year than his junior campaign.Wish him the very best.OFC
Listen, Vrank is a good guy by all reports and I know coaches in FL that just rave about him as a person and a teammate. But until he either is given the opportunity or produces in those games, Vrank is a relative unknown.
I think all of us have wishful thinking or high hopes for many role players at Duke and believe me, I'd like nothing better than see Vrank surprise us all next year. Duke could use his size and his ability to alter shots and grab boards.
I can easily see how a guy his size (7ft 260) and how he moves as someone that Duke fans "hope" to have a Zoubs successful & impactful Sr year. I think most all of us would like all Sr's to have that story book ending to their college career.
I think all of us have wishful thinking or high hopes for many role players at Duke and believe me, I'd like nothing better than see Vrank surprise us all next year. Duke could use his size and his ability to alter shots and grab boards.
I can easily see how a guy his size (7ft 260) and how he moves as someone that Duke fans "hope" to have a Zoubs successful & impactful Sr year. I think most all of us would like all Sr's to have that story book ending to their college career.
Amen. Brian was hurt 75% of the time he was at Duke. I do like and support Vrank. Who knows what he will give us next year. He's giving us 4 years and that means a lot. OFC
By the numbers, Zoubek’s 2010 season was the highest 40 min rebounding average of the K era. Vrank has never averaged more than five minutes/game. I feel as though Vrank and Matt Christianson is a much better comparison.
But you're comparing a year that hasn't happened for Vrank yet. If Carter comes back along with Bolden, it won't even be an opportunity either. Same thing for Zoubs; if he played behind those guys, with same structure, he'd be buried to. And to be clear, Zoubs was awesome for that team, but he wouldn't have sniffed the floor this past year. Saying that makes this somewhat pointless to debate anyway.....their situations are different (by I maintain their profiles being similar).
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No he wouldn't, as Zoubek wouldn't be playing either. Great guy for Duke but a poor plug-in piece for last years (and potentially next years) team. If Vrank was on that 2010 team he would have rotated in that 4-man front court lineup (assuming it would be him instead of Zoubek on that team).
IIRC in 2016-17 Vrank played QT against PSU, App St, and W&M before the highly recruited guys started trickling back. He played little against RI however, a nightmare game for 7 footers like Vrank (and Z). Again Z would have been buried as soon as Tatum, Bolden, and even Giles worked their way back.
Regardless of this you're not changing your stance nor am I. I'll bow out as this is pointless at this juncture. Have a great day.
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Is it time for the annual "Vrank needs to play more" argument again? Recall this exact same thing last year, with the exact same Zoubek comparisons.
Vrank seems like a great teammate, and I'd love to see him win the 9th man spot and play 5-10 mpg in some games. But I just don't feel like the staff is relying on him as a rotation player next year. He will be an emergency guy, used if a big has an injury, is sick, etc.
Vrank seems like a great teammate, and I'd love to see him win the 9th man spot and play 5-10 mpg in some games. But I just don't feel like the staff is relying on him as a rotation player next year. He will be an emergency guy, used if a big has an injury, is sick, etc.
Would think with Baker coming in we don’t go after him.. interesting to see where he goes
Edit: a lot of rumblings about him going to Kentucky
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