Recruiting and Nike

[Bowfreak.]

I don't intimately follow recruiting or the AAU scene. Can someone explain to me how it is common knowledge that Nike funnels athletes to Duke? I have read this on the board for the past 3-4 years and it is mentioned constantly.

Also....if this is the case, why all of a sudden did they funnel athletes to Duke?

 

[morgousky]

It’s based on the fact that Calipari invented the “success and proceed” model and encouraged players to leave early and developed them to leave early, and won big with the model, only to start losing those recruits to a system coach notorious for holding them back, risking their careers, and being very hostile to the idea for years.

There’s no way that happens after what Cal had built from 2009-2014 unless there’s some shady things going on.

Let’s not forget that Cal was fairly clear, in Cals way, about his relationship with Nike around that time by spurning the PKI. It’s just common sense.

Basketball recruiting doesn’t turn on a dime like that without a huge push from somewhere. Nike, cheating, all of the above.

And K hasn’t been successful with the model, just had the most hyped team of the OAD era, and didn’t even make the final four. But like clockwork, Just landed another in Jalen Johnson.

Several OAD’s have expressed malcontent at Duke in this time frame. Doesn’t matter. He’s still getting them. Oh don’t let me forget, all of this is during the same time we learn that shoe companies are pushing players to certain teams like never before. Remember that little FBI scandal?

It makes absolutely no sense for Duke to land these players during that time. In college basketball when things aren’t making sense, historical record shows it’s shady.

This isn’t hard. Duke is having strings pulled somewhere.

The reason seems to be Nike thinks Coach K’s legacy is a huge selling point. They just nominated him for their “coach of the Nike headquarters”.

All in all it’s fairly easy to see Nike was the edge K needed to land players he had been hostile to for years. In a traditional way, how Harry Giles was handled would have ended any chance he had at players like that of the future.

Or do today’s OAD just love stories of Magetti hiding under his bed from K when he wanted to leave early? Did Jalen Johnson like hearing Duke and ESPN tell Reddish to forgo his top 7 pick and return to Duke? Do they love seeing K play Giles in two bad knees while telling him he owed it to his legacy? Do they love stories of Winslow, Okafor, and the rest of the underperforming bust coming out of Durham?

It’s an easy call.

 

[GYERater]

This is simple, when we were getting all the recruits we wanted there was no funneling going on, now the only possible way we are losing recruits is because the shoe companies are sending them elsewhere.

 

[morgousky]

This is simple, when we were getting all the recruits we wanted there was no funneling going on, now the only possible way we are losing recruits is because the shoe companies are sending them elsewhere.

Sure. If you totally ignore the fact that Cal invented the entire concept of the OAD, won with it, was brilliant with it, only to have it ripped away from a system “me first” coach who up to that point was hostile to those players and the idea.

Just that little thing. No big deal I guess.

 

[villefan76]

PK-80.

 

[Bowfreak.]

This is simple, when we were getting all the recruits we wanted there was no funneling going on, now the only possible way we are losing recruits is because the shoe companies are sending them elsewhere.

Could it be that K saw the writing on the wall and recruiting 4 yr guys was not going to cut it in now?

Could it be that one of the best coaches in the country decided it was time to get into the OAD game?

Also why are OAD guys going to places like Vanderbilt?

 

[Blueaz]

Could it be that K saw the writing on the wall and recruiting 4 yr guys was not going to cut it in now?

Could it be that one of the best coaches in the country decided it was time to get into the OAD game?

Also why are OAD guys going to places like Vanderbilt?

Obtuse much?

 

[Monroe Claxton]

Could it be that K saw the writing on the wall and recruiting 4 yr guys was not going to cut it in now?

Could it be that one of the best coaches in the country decided it was time to get into the OAD game?

Also why are OAD guys going to places like Vanderbilt?

Someone convinced them that they would be lottery picks no matter where they went. Garland got hurt and was not exposed, but Shittu went from the penthouse to the outhouse

 

[morgousky]

Could it be that K saw the writing on the wall and recruiting 4 yr guys was not going to cut it in now?

Could it be that one of the best coaches in the country decided it was time to get into the OAD game?

Also why are OAD guys going to places like Vanderbilt?

Yea because after decades of being hostile to the early entrees, not changing his approach of “system coach, and openly lobbying for OAD’s to return, it’s just a light switch.

He just told the handlers and parents he wanted them regardless and they said, OKAY, works for us!!!

Lol goodness. It’s obvious what happened. Stop.

 

[BLUEVADER]

That's why CAL skipped the Nike Tournament and him and LeBron had a falling out. Recruiting will swing back our way cause that was one of AD'S stipulations is for James and Nike to stop interfering with recruiting and pushing recruits away from Kentucky. You will see how in 2020 we will be the school with the Elite's of Elite's again. Just watch.

 

[Eastkybball]

That's why CAL skipped the Nike Tournament and him and LeBron had a falling out. Recruiting will swing back our way cause that was one of AD'S stipulations is for James and Nike to stop interfering with recruiting and pushing recruits away from Kentucky. You will see how in 2020 we will be the school with the Elite's of Elite's again. Just watch.

It’s a conspiracy as of right now, but I absolutely agree this could be the case. If so AD should get that jersey hung up after he wins a title at LA.
I hate that some posters dog AD for going to lakers to play along side James. If anything he’s going to steal the spotlight and help us with recruiting, him and cousins both!

 

[Cowtown Cat]

This is simple, when we were getting all the recruits we wanted there was no funneling going on, now the only possible way we are losing recruits is because the shoe companies are sending them elsewhere.

We were the only program really doing OAD for the first four or so years that Cal was here.

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

It's in Nike's best interest to have the best players playing at schools which can promote their brand and increase their market share. I'm sure that Duke is not the only Nike school which Nike funnels kids to. Duke just gets a disproportionate share.

 

[Aike]

No inside info, but I think it goes beyond K and his legacy. I feel like Cal also got caught on the wrong side of a high level power struggle involving Lebron and his representation.

I’m interested to see how things play out over the next few years, with multiple high profile Cal guys choosing to team up with Klutch - AD being the highest profile example.

For the record, I think the idea that Nike punished us for skipping their tournament is quite a stretch. I think it’s much more likely to be the other way around.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Gone from any of these analytical discussion is the notion that Duke might just be outselling UK on the recruiting field, and that some of these "does it come easy" elites and their posh families like the Duke sale's job of easy elitism better than UK's approach of foxhole work ethic.

I know, I know, I'm a heretic. Get the torches ready.

 

[SemperFiCat]

I kinda lean towards this being a conspiracy theory. I think this has more to do with ESPN treating K as a godlike figure and kids wanting to be able to tell folks they were good enough to play for a living legend. Nike is all about money, and it's never a solid business plan to put all your investment eggs into one basket, Why would Nike purposely scorn all their other big fanbase$ just to cater to only one? The one indisputable fact in all this is Cal has proven he can develop guys and get them prepared for the league, while K's record is a provable exact opposite.

 

[Montana81]

Gone from any of these analytical discussion is the notion that Duke might just be outselling UK on the recruiting field, and that some of these "does it come easy" elites and their posh families like the Duke sale's job of easy elitism better than UK's approach of foxhole work ethic.

I know, I know, I'm a heretic. Get the torches ready.

I feel like I’ve seen that argument or idea pop up a few times. Maybe it was from you. I think a few people have said it on HoB though. I’m pretty sure gonzo said something similar on here just the other day.

I think “set for life” is a hard pitch to counter. And there’s plenty of proof that if or once basketball doesn’t work out for these guys espn will hire them.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Gone from any of these analytical discussion is the notion that Duke might just be outselling UK on the recruiting field, and that some of these "does it come easy" elites and their posh families like the Duke sale's job of easy elitism better than UK's approach of foxhole work ethic.

I know, I know, I'm a heretic. Get the torches ready.

I believe this is most likely true in some cases. I remember Reddish comparing his visits to UK and duke. He said something like, "it's different at duke." I think the reporter asked him what he meant by "different" and he responded with, "it's just different." I found that quite interesting.

He's right, it is very different. At UK, you have to work for everything and there's no bail out by the refs or NCAA. In fact, there's a great chance you'll get screwed by both entities during your time here. At duke, it's just the complete opposite. There's bail outs by the refs and NCAA at every turn. At duke, you don't have to work for jack **** and everything is handed to you. Going there IS the soft, easy way out.

Look no further than the NBA for the proof, where the playing field is actually level. Just compare the UK player performance in the league to that of the duke player performance. It's night and day and everyone knows it.

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

I believe this is most likely true in some cases. I remember Reddish comparing his visits to UK and duke. He said something like, "it's different at duke." I think the reporter asked him what he meant by "different" and he responded with, "it's just different." I found that quite interesting.

He's right, it is very different. At UK, you have to work for everything and there's no bail out by the refs or NCAA. In fact, there's a great chance you'll get screwed by both entities during your time here. At duke, it's just the complete opposite. There's bail outs by the refs and NCAA at every turn. At duke, you don't have to work for jack **** and everything is handed to you. Going there IS the soft, easy way out.

Look no further than the NBA for the proof, where the playing field is actually level. Just compare the UK player performance in the league to that of the duke player performance. It's night and day and everyone knows it.

I also don’t think we should discount K winning the 2015 title that should have been ours with an OAD dominated team. It’s more recent in the minds of teenagers, and I think it hurt Cal in these eyes of some that he failed to finish the deal with a 38-0 team.

 

[morgousky]

I also don’t think we should discount K winning the 2015 title that should have been ours with an OAD dominated team. It’s more recent in the minds of teenagers, and I think it hurt Cal in these eyes of some that he failed to finish the deal with a 38-0 team.

Nah. K just lost BEFORE the final four with the most hyped OAD team of the decade. By far a more crushing defeat. He just signed Jalen Jonson.

This is about stuff behind the scenes, not about wins and losses, programs, or coaches.

 

[4430]

Just a matter of time that the top players and their families start to see the “ Puke effect “ starring “ Ratface “ Mike , “Tripper “ Grayson , “Gunner “ RJ , and “Knees “ Zion .

 

[MNantz]

Just a matter of time that the top players and their families start to see the “ Puke effect “ starring “ Ratface “ Mike , “Tripper “ Grayson , “Gunner “ RJ , and “Knees “ Zion .

They will never see the Tripper because he will never stick in the NBA. The only way the little prick got drafted in the first place was the Rat Faced Bastard ordered a former Dookie to draft him in Quinn Snyder

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Nah. K just lost BEFORE the final four with the most hyped OAD team of the decade. By far a more crushing defeat. He just signed Jalen Jonson.

This is about stuff behind the scenes, not about wins and losses, programs, or coaches.

I think their loss was more crushing, I agree. BUT, k's name didn't get slung through the mud after that loss, like Cal's did in 2015. He was slammed by the duke staff on the trail, the media and by a lot of our own fans. Matter of fact, all the media has done since that loss is praise k, Lord Zion , Barrett, etc, etc.

Hell, they've replayed WELL over a hundred duke games from this past season on the ESPIN networks. I'll be honest, I don't remember them hardly replaying any games from our 2015 season, immediately after up until now. I might've seen four of five replayed games from our great 2015 squad on their networks since then.

That is absurd, considering our 2015 team had a MUCH, MUCH better overall season than this past year's duke team did. That's not close nor is it even debatable. Just goes to show how much bias is in play here. They don't even attempt to hide it.

 

[Xception]

Recruiting pitches does not explain how UK went from getting their pick of players in the top five to not being able to land one for almost four years. Can anybody reasonably explain that with a straight face? We aren’t just losing recruiting battles against Duke but all sorts of also rans with no history of excellence.

Give me one good plausible and believable explanation that doesn’t involve paying players or Nike. If you can answer that then you can say the paying and Nike angles are bs, but given what we’ve witnessed recently the most likely reason is schools buying recruits and Nike being involved.

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

Nah. K just lost BEFORE the final four with the most hyped OAD team of the decade. By far a more crushing defeat. He just signed Jalen Jonson.

This is about stuff behind the scenes, not about wins and losses, programs, or coaches.

Yes that’s even more recent yet as you say he already has a commitment. I agree the apparel companies and agents are having an effect, but I don’t think that’s all there is to it.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Just a matter of time that the top players and their families start to see the “ Puke effect “ starring “ Ratface “ Mike , “Tripper “ Grayson , “Gunner “ RJ , and “Knees “ Zion .

I threw you a like in hopes this finally happens. IMO, though, it should've already happened if it were going to. Like @morgousky said, there's behind the scene stuff going on here too. It's a damn near certainty.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Recruiting pitches does not explain how UK went from getting their pick of players in the top five to not being able to land one for almost four years. Can anybody reasonably explain that with a straight face? We aren’t just losing recruiting battles against Duke but all sorts of also rans with no history of excellence.

Give me one good plausible and believable explanation that doesn’t involve paying players or Nike. If you can answer that then you can say the paying and Nike angles are bs, but given what we’ve witnessed recently the most likely reason is schools buying recruits and Nike being involved.

I just don't get why Nike, if this is true, would be funneling kids to only one school. From a business standpoint, doesn't it make more sense to diversify and have a larger footprint? I don't think Nike cares what jerseys kids are wearing, as long as they have a swoosh on them. Now, I'm not saying Nike probably isn't as guilty as any other shoe company when it comes to buying players' services, I just think, when it comes to Duke, ESPN has raised these kids to think K is a god. I blame ESPN more than Nike for Duke's recruiting bump lately.

 

[Aike]

Gone from any of these analytical discussion is the notion that Duke might just be outselling UK on the recruiting field, and that some of these "does it come easy" elites and their posh families like the Duke sale's job of easy elitism better than UK's approach of foxhole work ethic.

I know, I know, I'm a heretic. Get the torches ready.

Clearly the pitch resonates, but the pitch is a coordinated effort between K (and staff), ESPN, Nike, Lebron, USA Basketball...am I leaving anyone out?

But as another poster has mentioned, we are “Second Contract U.” That resonates with some of the longer term thinkers. Which is why we stay in the fight and still get our fair share of borderline elite talent, as well as the up and coming, overachiever types.

 

[wildcat1515]

I think alot of coaches use dirty recruiting tactics against us and Cal is just straight up with the players. He doesn't tell the player and his parents lies that they are going to be the man and get all the shots. You have to work for your playing time. Most kids nowadays want the quickest and easiest path to the NBA. We might not get the top kids but they are all good kids that work hard and play with heart. Plus Duke sucks and coach K is scum.

 

[SemperFiCat]

I do believe the "easiest path" comments have some validity to them. Like Cal says, "Kentucky isn't for everyone." Cal gets high character guys willing to put in the effort to earn their min, and open to coaching.

 

[Duke Bluu]

I've been to Duke several times. I've taken my young boys there (12 and 10 years old now). I've taken them into the Duke museum inside Cameron Indoor. I've also been to Rupp, while i was in Lexington on official business for work. Listen, Coach K, that campus, the recent history with Carolina, tent city, Olympics, 5 national titles all seen on color tv. There is a mystique there. I honestly don't understand why some of you don't understand HOW a kid could want to go play at Duke. It's freakin awesome. It's Duke University. It's elite. Kids, parents etc...They want to go!

 

[shutzhund]

My simple minded concern is when will Cal learn that concentration on one or two big men and ignoring the rest isn't the only way. Right now we are jumping out of our skin recruiting guys we never paid much attention too a year or so ago. Weren't they around then?

Maybe, heaven help us we did try and the "UK isn't for every one" approach was the wrong way to go.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

It probably started with okafor and Parker. Those were the first two that were duke locks from super early. But there isn't documented proof. But may just be coincidence.

Bagley is the first instance of documented proof. It's undeniable fact his family was paid millions by Nike. He was all duke from very early on too. So do the math.

Just a theory but I think Cal was supposed to leave to take the Cavs job; then backed out. But that's about the time things reaaaaally swung the other way. Bron never mentioned again. Wes never mentioned again. Also about the time Nike started paying the Bagleys.

Also don't think we backed out of the Nike tournament. No way we do that. I think we were kicked out.

Finally it will be interesting to see how AD acts moving forward. Very pro UK all this time. Will it change?

 

[shutzhund]

My simple minded concern is when will Cal learn that concentration on one or two big men and ignoring the rest isn't the only way. Right now we are jumping out of our skin recruiting guys we never paid much attention too a year or so ago. Weren't they around then?

Maybe, heaven help us we did try and the "UK isn't for every one" approach was the wrong way to go.

 

[Xception]

I just don't get why Nike, if this is true, would be funneling kids to only one school. From a business standpoint, doesn't it make more sense to diversify and have a larger footprint? I don't think Nike cares what jerseys kids are wearing, as long as they have a swoosh on them. Now, I'm not saying Nike probably isn't as guilty as any other shoe company when it comes to buying players' services, I just think, when it comes to Duke, ESPN has raised these kids to think K is a god. I blame ESPN more than Nike for Duke's recruiting bump lately.

Not knowing Nike’s motivations doesn’t answer my question. You think everybody at Adidas knew what Gassnola was doing? Yet he had his reasons and I’m sure other Adidas officials knew too. But before the fbi sting many would scoff at the notion of a shoe company tampering in recruiting. Even with the FBI proving it happens you seem mystified by the possibility. It’s certainly a far simpler conclusion to reach than as to why UK can’t get a top five recruit anymore.

 

[Xception]

Will anyone deny that UK was the most dominate recruiting program for the first five years of Cals tenure? Or that every program and fan base feared UK in recruiting, to the point that you automatically considered it a lost battle or a surprise if you won a recruit? Whether you can see Dukes recent success or not, UK’s sudden inability to land the top players has to surprise everyone.

Let’s stop messing around and be honest, we all know what’s happening. We can lie to ourselves and pretend to explain the elephant in the room away. The FBI sting took away fantasy land that everybody knew was true anyway. The only shock to some was that UK wasn’t the one paying players, it was the field buying the top guys.

If UK was paying do you honestly believe your program would be routinely beating UK for the best players almost every time? I don’t care how great anyone thinks Duke is, they were the same when coach K couldn’t hardly win a recruiting battle for years over Cal. But know it’s because Duke has mystique and who doesn’t want to go there, ha ha ha stfu with that nonsense. Kansa lol, just lol. UK suddenly can’t beat nobody programs, I guess they got mystique too.

 

[Xception]

Pretty obvious when top players repeatedly say UK was their dream school yet go elsewhere, what would entice them all to choose other schools when UK was the gold standard in recruiting five years ago? It’s believable that UKs pitch lost its impact and caused a little decline but that’s not what happened.

We’re talking about a razor sharp turn to where what was the gold standard in recruiting suddenly couldn’t pull a top five to save its life. UK still gets a top class via aggregate every year because they have to settle for the ones not being bought.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Not knowing Nike’s motivations doesn’t answer my question. You think everybody at Adidas knew what Gassnola was doing? Yet he had his reasons and I’m sure other Adidas officials knew too. But before the fbi sting many would scoff at the notion of a shoe company tampering in recruiting. Even with the FBI proving it happens you seem mystified by the possibility. It’s certainly a far simpler conclusion to reach than as to why UK can’t get a top five recruit anymore.

Nothing you said actually addressed the points I was making. Do you honestly believe Nike made a conscious business decision to funnel top talent to Duke and only Duke? Honestly asking. If you do, what benefits does Nike see in doing that?

 

[morgousky]

I've been to Duke several times. I've taken my young boys there (12 and 10 years old now). I've taken them into the Duke museum inside Cameron Indoor. I've also been to Rupp, while i was in Lexington on official business for work. Listen, Coach K, that campus, the recent history with Carolina, tent city, Olympics, 5 national titles all seen on color tv. There is a mystique there. I honestly don't understand why some of you don't understand HOW a kid could want to go play at Duke. It's freakin awesome. It's Duke University. It's elite. Kids, parents etc...They want to go!

********. I’ve been to Durham, it’s a dump. Chapel hill is way nicer. I’ve been to Cameron Indoor, right around the time K put the students on blast for not filling the gym. Watched Duke play NCState, not even close to sell out.

Kentucky is far and away more prominent. Duke is all media, Kansas blows Duke out of the water. Duke wasn’t terrible but it’s not the state program and it’s nothing to cry home about. Lexington and Ky is much more special.

Nice try.

 

[Poetax]

Nah. K just lost BEFORE the final four with the most hyped OAD team of the decade. By far a more crushing defeat. He just signed Jalen Jonson.

This is about stuff behind the scenes, not about wins and losses, programs, or coaches.

I agree whatever is going on is still going on.