That’s right- after 37 dark years and 2 bright years, what’s another year’s wait. Hopefully everything goes right next year.
Really tired
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Teams expecting good seasons don't often lose two starters. Teams lose players to the portal usually because they are not starting where they are, or they want to move up a level. There aren't many P5 starters that transfer for money either, while there are some.
Yes I was. I also believed the Chris Ash ship was going to sink from DAY ONE. I was in the minority of about one on that one. 30 years of coaching bb also allows me to have an opinion, more than most.
So you just said it's OK for him to be mediocre because of who he followed - brilliant.
Yea and because we are rutgers mediocre is great for us . Pike is great
You might want to think before you say Pike followed some of the worst coaches of all time. Gary Waters is one of the winningest coaches of all time with 365 wins and about 5 conference championships - hardly one of the worst of all time.
Why wouldnt they?
Didn't you see the victory lap thread after finally getting a game prediction correctly?
Funny enough I didn't see a thread after today's game.
Fernandes, Davis, and Simpson are three of the five worst high-major players in the country in effective FG%. Literally throw a dart and any guard who actually plays for a high-major team is likely to be a better option.
Honestly I'm starting to believe that the time and focus put into the 2024 recruiting class has had a real tangible negative effect on this year's team. I don't think Pikiell thought this was a write-off year but that's what it effectively turned into. The fullcourt press on Harper has been well-documented, so it stands to reason less time was spent recruiting the 2023 class, less time scouting and recruiting the transfer portal, less time recruiting his own roster (Spencer and Mulcahy), etc...
We'll see next year if that gamble pays off. It very well may and we'll be laughing about this year.
Gary Waters was in 2006. That's irrelevant to Pike following Hill Rice and Jordan
Fair point. But I think good, top-tier experienced P5 players like Cam will increasingly command top dollar to transfer to fill out the rosters of championship contenders who have the resources to buy players. Miami is another example - paying $500K for a top tier KSU player.
Sadly, it will be next year before we have players who are good at putting the ball in the basket.
Hard to have a team full of guys who can't do the most basic thing necessary in basketball, but somehow that is the 2023-2024 Scarlet Knights.
Hard to have a team full of guys who can't do the most basic thing necessary in basketball, but somehow that is the 2023-2024 Scarlet Knights.
There is a segment on this board with habitually low expectations across sports. If a guy comes in and cleans up a mess he gets the benefit of cleaning that mess in perpetuity regardless of how many years he has been here and what the recent results might be.
Pike is getting paid to win. Not just every 2-3, 3-5 or 4-6 years but every year. He can build his OOC to provide a near guarantee that happens by just being middle of the pack in the conference.
Overall he has done a good job and sold a lot of tickets but an objective look at this years team leads to criticism for him, his recruiting and lack of player development. Assess him for where the program is today and the outlook going forward, not what he inherited. He has been compensated well for those accomplishments
The outlook for next year and only next year at this point, is good but it still remains to be seen if he and his staff can coach a squad like that and reach whatever each of us believe to be its potential. I see a lot of highly regarded freshman not being asked to do what we expect our group to do next year. Just seeing how Gavin is struggling should be sobering.
Pike is getting paid to win. Not just every 2-3, 3-5 or 4-6 years but every year. He can build his OOC to provide a near guarantee that happens by just being middle of the pack in the conference.
Overall he has done a good job and sold a lot of tickets but an objective look at this years team leads to criticism for him, his recruiting and lack of player development. Assess him for where the program is today and the outlook going forward, not what he inherited. He has been compensated well for those accomplishments
The outlook for next year and only next year at this point, is good but it still remains to be seen if he and his staff can coach a squad like that and reach whatever each of us believe to be its potential. I see a lot of highly regarded freshman not being asked to do what we expect our group to do next year. Just seeing how Gavin is struggling should be sobering.
Let’s call it what it is, abysmal.
Too many recruiting misses and reaches.
This is why I have very very low expectations next year relative to everyone else. Yes, I expect us to make the tournament and even win a game, but once you make it to the second round, you’re gonna be playing someone good.
Who’s going to be the supporting cast for Ace and Dylan? Who? Please don’t say J Williams. We haven’t seen him play. Hopefully Mag is back. Pike and co still need a center. I like Latham a lot, but again, he’s a freshman.
The fact the we have 5 guys coming in next year, and I’m questioning what the supporting cast will be, shows just how many misses Pike has had the last few years.
Is there going to be any development from Gavin this year? My guess is no. Mainly because our guard play is meh and we can’t run diddly poo to set up a shooter like him.
This is a real problem people. A very real problem
Too many recruiting misses and reaches.
This is why I have very very low expectations next year relative to everyone else. Yes, I expect us to make the tournament and even win a game, but once you make it to the second round, you’re gonna be playing someone good.
Who’s going to be the supporting cast for Ace and Dylan? Who? Please don’t say J Williams. We haven’t seen him play. Hopefully Mag is back. Pike and co still need a center. I like Latham a lot, but again, he’s a freshman.
The fact the we have 5 guys coming in next year, and I’m questioning what the supporting cast will be, shows just how many misses Pike has had the last few years.
Is there going to be any development from Gavin this year? My guess is no. Mainly because our guard play is meh and we can’t run diddly poo to set up a shooter like him.
This is a real problem people. A very real problem
I think one of the biggest mistakes people are making is thinking all of Gavin's issues are a Gavin problem. There is a tremendous adjustment from going from the AAU circuit where defense isn't played to playing for Pikiell where you use energy the entire time you are on the court. There is a different cardiovascular level players need to be on. It is one thing to make shots when your heart rate is at say 100-130 and a completely different ball game at 140-160.
It is far from a given Ace and Dylan will make the transition clean.
It is far from a given Ace and Dylan will make the transition clean.
There was reason for low expectations this season, not next year. Many saw this coming for the 23-24 season. The talent and experience did not exist on this years team even though some people thought this was a better team.
Next years team will be one of the most talented teams ever at RU. Will they have enough experience is the question? Hopefully, Mag, J Williams, Simpson, Wolf. (Maybe Cliff) will add experience and Gavin and J Mike will be ready to take a step forward. Add in highly talented Dylan, Ace (2 NBA level players) and Somerville and that’s a team that can go toe to toe with anyone. I also expect Pike to add a missing piece or two through the portal.
We won’t know what the roster looks like until May-Jume but I have much higher expectations for the 24-25 team than I did for this years team. I didn’t think this years team would make the ncaa tourney before the season started, which is virtually impossible at this point. Follow the talent. Next year will be fun.
You can expect what you want and so can others. But what is odd is that you essentially waited through almost 30 years of sucky basketball (much worse in most cases than you're even seeing this season) and after a pretty to very good progression and 3-4 year run......you've finally had enough in a down year and with a Top 3 recruiting class coming in next year.
The Hinson Battle years were great. Bob Wentzel was amazing. Then I was ‘happy’ for a 20 win season with Watters. Your “much worse” comment was accurate and cracked me up. But I’m not getting any younger. I’m not allowed to want more out of my alma mater? I should be happy with just not being a complete dormat? It’s all about pattern recognition and I see a year to year decline now. So I’m worried. Peak in March 2021. Almost made sweet 16. Then barely made it in to lose play in. Then winless NIT. Now this dumpster fire. Yes the recruiting class is exciting, but it’s hardly momentum. Many of us are worried what the frosh can do with no supporting cast. Many of us realize it’s only one year with hope. Right now we could continue the decline in 2025-2026. Maybe all those bad years makes me more pessimistic. Maybe seeing the Trend of the last four years does? I love this board, it gives me much entertainment and enjoinment. However I don’t understand all the hate cause I’m tired of bad basketball. Because I wished they had built more momentum off 2020 and 2021. One good recruiting class years later, no matter how highly ranked, isn’t real momentum. We should have had better recruiting all these years. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, sure, but I’m not allowed to have mine? Right now imho we’ve declined for four years, have an outlier great recruiting class, and then 2024-2025 could go anywhere. That’s not momentum. I’d hoped for better.
With NIL and Portal, its become much more transactional from year to year so not sure 2020 and 2021 have much to do with a build to where we are now. NIL also comes down to how much resources the fanbase wants to pony-up and best I can tell, we put a lot of attention on next year, and probably at the expense of this year. Part of the issue is also that players like Cliff never blossomed on the offensive end and that Cam chose to move on. Sometimes it just comes down to a few critical issues.
That’s a fair and well thought out explanation. I appreciate the convo. At 3 or so scholarships a year I just see it as a lot of recruiting misses lately given how well we did in 2020 and 2021.
Cliff is not ready for the NBA… teams can place him in the G league or he plays overseas. He does not appear happy at this point and there many schools who could pay him and use him . Hope he stays but highly doubtful.
Ace and Dylan have played significantly tougher competition than Gavin so hopefully that helps with the transition
Well you can't replicate B1G level intensity in HS so the best competition is the best you can hope for
He didn't stink at all. He had an overall winning record for us over five years including seasons of 18-13, 20-13, and 19-13.
He was pretty good. And that one NIT run was a lot of fun. His biggest problem was no NCAAs.
What was his big East record ? What was his big East road record ! What was his big East tournament record ?
How many tournaments did we make with him?
Answer those questions please and then get back to me.
Right now we have Mag (hopefully) and some mediocre backup guards (one of whom may have to start) as a supporting cast. Hopefully Gavin has a miraculous turnaround by then. If we are relying on a freshman center and Woolfolk as our big men, we need to temper our expectations quite a bit.
I think being used to playing in big games where it’s back and forth against really good
Players has to help. I get greens comment and I agree with his thoughts on defensive intensity. I think both can be true.
The dude never made the NCAAs. If the standards are such that Waters was good then criticizing Pike is not consistent with this at all.