Realistically, How Quickly Can We Move On From Sha?

[TommyD82]

Budget budget budget. You apologists will go to any length to excuse his deficiencies in recruiting, his offensive scheme, and his overall philosophy. Seriously calling the 3 fools gold in 2026 is a ridiculous claim. Being so tied to only one style of play and thinking about how things “should” work is foolish. This isn’t the early 2000s when he played. New era, needs new ideas

his style isn’t working money or no money. Period. Worse than a bad coach is a good coach that is so stubborn and wants to be so right that he refuses to adapt.

After his remark about the 3 I had to ask myself if Sha played before the 3 pt. shot was adopted in CBB. The stubbornness is strange.

 

[PiratePride]

It speaks volumes, doesn't it?

I think the lack of fan interest is at least partially a function of having hired guns representing the school and team. I know I am not as invested in the program as I was in the past. Season ticket holder since '90 season. Have been to only a few games this year and none last year. And my loss of interest is NOT due to Shaheen.

 

[NCAAsorBust]

I think the lack of fan interest is at least partially a function of having hired guns representing the school and team. I know I am not as invested in the program as I was in the past. Season ticket holder since '90 season. Have been to only a few games this year and none last year. And my loss of interest is NOT due to Shaheen.

There's a lot of teams like SJU that have hired guns who have gained in fan interest. So I don't think the players themselves being hired guns is what caused lost interest on a macro level. For a few fans here and there, but not going from 9000 to 2500 in the stands.

 

[PiratePride]

There's a lot of teams like SJU that have hired guns who have gained in fan interest. So I don't think the players themselves being hired guns is what caused lost interest on a macro level. For a few fans here and there, but not going from 9000 to 2500 in the stands.

Like I said... it's partially due to NIL... tons of factors..... SJU is killing it...... us not so much. When we found ourselves in the top 25 discussion, the fans were there. Combo of the team showing cracks and perhaps the NIL thing. I was at the Villanova home game... and that seemed to let the air out of our balloon. Brian Felt says Mktg is doing all sorts of stuff to get students interested again..... somehow not working.... closing out with a couple of W's would help and some home NIT games may juice them up a bit. Of course when we win the BET, then it's a whole other ball game. Winning cures all ills.

If they read this board after a loss..... it certainly won't draw any new fans. This board has gotten pretty toxic this year... some really nasty comments. I think I'm living in SHU past glories la la land.... I'm sad that college sports will never be the same and SHU may become an after thought as time goes on. I sure hope not. Spent too many nights living and dying by the Pirates. Love to see that spark ignited again.


.

 

[anon1776442940]

then again....maybe that is why/how we got him?

If he was a ready-made player of his size and skills....would probably have been out of our price range. Reminds me of when/how we got Myles Powell

Remember he was going to stay in HS one more year and didnt he lose a tone of weight over the summer?

 

[anon1776442940]

Now imagine if he didn't spread his budget around with the wish that he can find 10 Big East basketball players and instead focused on only 7-8 guys? Enough with the SPU MAAC model. We've all said it. It will not work at this level. So instead of shortening his rotation to 7-8 capable players, he has guys like Parker (not a pg) and Dar (not a PF) coming off the bench.

This is exactly what I said.

Dar provides some athleticism and length to guard taller players. We are a hole at the 3 anyway. None of the 3 options are very good.

 

[Hall Is Life]

Dar provides some athleticism and length to guard taller players. We are a hole at the 3 anyway. None of the 3 options are very good.

If you’re defending Dar being asked to play the 4, I no longer wish to participate in this back and forth.

 

[shu09]

I have so many negative things to say about him and his style but what’s the point? I’ve also noticed that the blowhards on social media have cooled off on the “imagine if Sha had NIL money” narrative. Maybe his 5th year will be the charm.

Goodman, Dauster, and Borzello aren't gassing him up anymore?

 

[Hall Is Life]

Goodman, Dauster, and Borzello aren't gassing him up anymore?

If they have, then I’ve missed it. Maybe he should have taken that Louisville job after all.

 

[shu09]

If they have, then I’ve missed it. Maybe he should have taken that Louisville job after all.

I don't know if they are or aren't anymore, but I know they used to. Fanta as well, but you'll never get him to say anything negative about Seton Hall publicly.

 

[shu09]

He’s had 3 top 60 Kenpom teams in 4 years.

The new standard of excellence ladies & gentlemen. Like LT once famously said, "Whipty damn do!"

If you're in a "power" conference, it's kind of expected that you'll be in the top 60 on KenPom. 49 of the current top 60 are power conference teams. Anything less than that is a bad year.

 

[dehere23]

There's a lot of teams like SJU that have hired guns who have gained in fan interest. So I don't think the players themselves being hired guns is what caused lost interest on a macro level. For a few fans here and there, but not going from 9000 to 2500 in the stands.

I feel this way as a fan, but most don’t.

At plenty of schools, attendance is just as good if not better. Creighton and Marquette draw like crazy despite down years. Providence draws and they are in last place. Xavier same deal. I’m sure this is true in other power conferences.

And they all have hired guns.

St John’s has basically tripled their attendance since Pitino was hired. Part of that is playing many more games at MSG. But they are getting 15.000 for weeknight games in the dead of winter against Midwest schools or schools like Seton Hall (ie not rivals who draw like UConn, Nova, Gtown). That is the same amount we got for the 2019 Michigan State game. Think about that.

I don’t think we aren’t drawing because of the realization that all these players are basically Euro league one year contracts.

 

[shu09]

No one said it’s a standard of excellence. It’s something that needs to be considered when deciding whether to get rid of Shaheen (which is the premise of this thread).

We are trying to figure what the best long term solution is. Maybe it’s paying a buyout and starting over with a really good MAAC coach (Gallo) or an up and coming AE coach (Grant) or a respected HM assistant (Murray). Or maybe it’s sticking with the guy who has us in the cusp of where we want to be, and might just turn the corner with a few improvements to his team building and offense.

In the 25 year history of KenPom, Seton Hall has been in the top 60 more than 50% of the time (14 yes vs. 11 no), and that includes a lot of lean years under Gonzalez and a couple under Orr. In fact, last year's disaster snapped a streak of 9 consecutive top 60 seasons. Glad we're back this year (for the time being), but the quality of play and program management is still trending down in year four of this regime. It should be the bare minimum expectation, but I wouldn't make stay or go decisions based off it.

2002: 84
2003: 53
2004: 27
2005: 109
2006: 86
2007: 105
2008: 107
2009: 76
2010: 66
2011: 59
2012: 55
2013: 117
2014: 94
2015: 83
2016: 29
2017: 51
2018: 26
2019: 60
2020: 20
2021: 54
2022: 52
2023: 58
2024: 50
2025: 204
2026 to date: 49

 

[NYC Pirate]

If you're in a "power" conference, it's kind of expected that you'll be in the top 60 on KenPom. 49 of the current top 60 are power conference teams. Anything less than that is a bad year.

So, first I think you are a good poster and not a troll for what that is worth. I actually agree with some of your points. Possibly you have drawn your line in the sand and have to defend it. No issue for me. Where I really agree with you is that we thought were getting top 30 and not top 60. Obviously, so many challenges at Seton Hall. I think I would give Sha a pass for last year. Perfect storm with the NIL and poor recruiting choices. The year before there was bad luck with the conference tournament upsets knocking SH out. However, The Hall was still a Bubble Team, and they caused a lot of their own problems. So, no pass for me. Now year four is all over the map. Great start, no big wins, but confident assertive play. Looked like NCAA's all the way. Loved the way they took it to SJU at The Garden for a lot of that game. Played UConn fairly tough as they have for several years now. The season took a huge turn with the Butler home game. Team wasn't ready. We cannot blame the NIL or the lack of students at the game. The DePaul Road loss was poor. Both Villanova games were bad. The Creighton loss was inexcusable, one of the worst I have seen, and last night's game looked like a burnt-out team. I know you are looking for long term and I respect that. Call me a die hard, but I will root game by game. Still, some hope. It doesn't look promising, but things can turn on a dime.

 

[shu09]

So, first I think you are a good poster and not a troll for what that is worth. I actually agree with some of your points. Possibly you have drawn your line in the sand and have to defend it. No issue for me. Where I really agree with you is that we thought were getting top 30 and not top 60. Obviously, so many challenges at Seton Hall. I think I would give Sha a pass for last year. Perfect storm with the NIL and poor recruiting choices. The year before there was bad luck with the conference tournament upsets knocking SH out. However, The Hall was still a Bubble Team, and they caused a lot of their own problems. So, no pass for me. Now year four is all over the map. Great start, no big wins, but confident assertive play. Looked like NCAA's all the way. Loved the way they took it to SJU at The Garden for a lot of that game. Played UConn fairly tough as they have for several years now. The season took a huge turn with the Butler home game. Team wasn't ready. We cannot blame the NIL or the lack of students at the game. The DePaul Road loss was poor. Both Villanova games were bad. The Creighton loss was inexcusable, one of the worst I have seen, and last night's game looked like a burnt-out team. I know you are looking for long term and I respect that. Call me a die hard, but I will root game by game. Still, some hope. It doesn't look promising, but things can turn on a dime.

While I supported his hire at the time, I never thought we'd be getting a top 30 team consistently with Holloway to be honest. That's a little unrealistic at Seton Hall in my view. I think a top 50 team more often than not, to go along with a few NCAA bids (three every five years or so) is realistic. NCAA appearances is the most important factor in evaluating a major conference coach (unless you're elite like Duke, MSU, UConn, then you get judged on how far you advance). But we're four years in and clearly not getting that with this coach. The lack of NCAA bids is the glaring distinction between him and the previous coach, and that's why folks are getting frustrated.

 

[NCAAsorBust]

While I supported his hire at the time, I never thought we'd be getting a top 30 team consistently with Holloway to be honest. That's a little unrealistic at Seton Hall in my view. I think a top 50 team more often than not, to go along with a few NCAA bids (three every five years or so) is realistic. NCAA appearances is the most important factor in evaluating a major conference coach (unless you're elite like Duke, MSU, UConn, then you get judged on how far you advance). But we're four years in and clearly not getting that with this coach. The lack of NCAA bids is the glaring distinction between him and the previous coach, and that's why folks are getting frustrated.

I don’t see the frustration from the die hards. You get a couple of fans saying this sucks and 50 die hards giving excuses. I think the casual fan has wrote us off. There’s no interest, no excitement, no energy. He’s not going anywhere so we either need a major spark or we’re riding this one out like Georgetown did with Ewing.

 

[shu09]

I don’t see the frustration from the die hards. You get a couple of fans saying this sucks and 50 die hards giving excuses. I think the casual fan has wrote us off. There’s no interest, no excitement, no energy. He’s not going anywhere so we either need a major spark or we’re riding this one out like Georgetown did with Ewing.

The people you reference generally have very low expectations for the Seton Hall program. They'll continue to make excuses as Holloway continues to stumble. They enjoy the trappings of supposed "big time basketball," but their level of expectations do not match that. Many of them are on this board and the Seton Hall administration as a whole shares similar views. They're happy as long as Seton Hall wins a few games and makes the tournament once or twice in a decade. For me, that's not good enough.

 

[CTF591011]

The people you reference generally have very low expectations for the Seton Hall program. They'll continue to make excuses as Holloway continues to stumble. They enjoy the trappings of supposed "big time basketball," but their level of expectations do not match that. Many of them are on this board and the Seton Hall administration as a whole shares similar views. They're happy as long as Seton Hall wins a few games and makes the tournament once or twice in a decade. For me, that's not good enough.

Sha hasn't even gotten to the tourney yet though he honestly deserved 2024.

 

[shu09]

Sha hasn't even gotten to the tourney yet though he honestly deserved 2024.

People forget the non-conference performance in 2023-24 was not good at all. That put Seton Hall in a position to be bumped by bid thieves, of which there were a record number that season. All they needed was just an average performance in November and December and they'd have been in, even with the bid thieves. Every game counts and they weren't ready to play at the beginning of that season.

 

[mbraue]

Like I said... it's partially due to NIL... tons of factors..... SJU is killing it...... us not so much. When we found ourselves in the top 25 discussion, the fans were there. Combo of the team showing cracks and perhaps the NIL thing. I was at the Villanova home game... and that seemed to let the air out of our balloon. Brian Felt says Mktg is doing all sorts of stuff to get students interested again..... somehow not working.... closing out with a couple of W's would help and some home NIT games may juice them up a bit. Of course when we win the BET, then it's a whole other ball game. Winning cures all ills.

If they read this board after a loss..... it certainly won't draw any new fans. This board has gotten pretty toxic this year... some really nasty comments. I think I'm living in SHU past glories la la land.... I'm sad that college sports will never be the same and SHU may become an after thought as time goes on. I sure hope not. Spent too many nights living and dying by the Pirates. Love to see that spark ignited again.


.

The first year or even year 2 under Pitino the fan base stunk. He even called it out. Now fans are frothing at the mouth because they have had such a dry spell in NCAAs compared to us in the past 12 years or whatever the Willard sweet spot was.

 

[Piratz]

After 4 seasons it’s very clear where things need to improve on the court to take the next step.

I do believe the scrambling around NIL and money is resolved at The Hall. That was problem #1 before the coaching, and why we couldn’t retain Samuel, Richmond, and Davis, then the disaster last year. If there’s one thing that awakens people in South Orange it’s money, and now they’re pouring a lot of their own into this team with the RS.

Granted we’ll always be mediocre at best on these resources amongst BE teams - forget power 4 football - but it’s improved right now, enough to field a consistent NCAAT team 7-10 seed if the pledge continues, IMO. With good coaching and team management you can pop. You’re right around that this year, see how it finishes.

 

[Piratz]

People forget the non-conference performance in 2023-24 was not good at all. That put Seton Hall in a position to be bumped by bid thieves, of which there were a record number that season. All they needed was just an average performance in November and December and they'd have been in, even with the bid thieves. Every game counts and they weren't ready to play at the beginning of that season.

That team also got blown out more than any other good team I’ve ever seen at The Hall.

 

[dehere23]

The first year or even year 2 under Pitino the fan base stunk. He even called it out. Now fans are frothing at the mouth because they have had such a dry spell in NCAAs compared to us in the past 12 years or whatever the Willard sweet spot was.

That’s 100% factually incorrect and not an excuse for our fans showing either.

If NIL is a turn off to one’s interest, I totally get it. But most programs in the BE have seen their attendance numbers stay flat or even increase over the last few years. There are about 3 outliers and we are one of them.

And even when we were ranked for a hot second this year, that didn’t change. I was at MSG when we were ranked and there might have been 50 of us in the building.

 

[NIL BAD]

Your fan base was pretty pathetic until Repole "ponied up" & the team became more competitive.

 

[dehere23]

Your fan base was pretty pathetic until Repole "ponied up" & the team became more competitive.

Blah blah. The point was whether NIL is the reason our attendance numbers have gone in the toilet. I don’t think it is, and there are numerous examples of programs with all different profiles that have seen attendance stay the course or improve. Various factors play a role including the performance of a team, location, student environment, athletic administration and the head coach. I’ve been very vocal that I think Sha can play so much of a bigger part in the promotional piece of this as a former start player who people think fondly about.

 

[Left Coast Pirates]

After 4 seasons it’s very clear where things need to improve on the court to take the next step.

I do believe the scrambling around NIL and money is resolved at The Hall. That was problem #1 before the coaching, and why we couldn’t retain Samuel, Richmond, and Davis, then the disaster last year. If there’s one thing that awakens people in South Orange it’s money, and now they’re pouring a lot of their own into this team with the RS.

Granted we’ll always be mediocre at best on these resources amongst BE teams - forget power 4 football - but it’s improved right now, enough to field a consistent NCAAT team 7-10 seed if the pledge continues, IMO. With good coaching and team management you can pop. You’re right around that this year, see how it finishes.

Question for you.

based on our present day NIL funding.

If the current team had players that outperformed expectations and had seasons equivalent to the levels that Richmond, Davis, Dawes, and Bediako had in 2023-24, how many of those players would we be able to retain for the following season?

Richmond > Clark
Dawes > / = Simpkins
Davis > anyone at his position
Bediako > / = Hines

and we are concerned that we might not be able to keep all three of what we do have.

 

[Left Coast Pirates]

Blah blah. The point was whether NIL is the reason our attendance numbers have gone in the toilet. I don’t think it is, and there are numerous examples of programs with all different profiles that have seen attendance stay the course or improve. Various factors play a role including the performance of a team, location, student environment, athletic administration and the head coach. I’ve been very vocal that I think Sha can play so much of a bigger part in the promotional piece of this as a former start player who people think fondly about.

In my opinion the attendance challenge for the students vs alumni are two separate issues.

Here are my thoughts on the alumni issue:
- Start time
I know this sounds petty, but if your not initially vested in the team, you are not going to leave work early for a 6 pm start or sacrifice your sleep for the next day of work for an after 8 pm start. Don’t compare that sacrifice to a die hard. It’s not the same mind set for them. TV dictates scheduling, but you want that ideal 7 pm start time on a weekday to maximize fan turnout.

Speaking of TV
More and more people have cut the cord and don’t have 8 different streaming services.
To watch Seton Hall this year, you needed to have ESPN+, peacock, Tru Tv/ HBO-Max, and Foxsports1.
I guarantee most fans didn’t watch more than a game or two prior to Big East play. They have no idea who is on the team. They have zero connection to the players or even the program for that particular season.

Product on the floor:
I am not talking about Wins and Losses or NCAAT births. I am talking about the pure entertainment value of what they are watching. Jeremy Hazell, Isaiah Whitehead, or Myles Powell, were fun exciting players that could score and were in teams that could score as well. The average fan does not enjoy a rock fight with the score in the 50s and 60s. Heck, I was disgusted watching the recent road win @ Butler. That was visually unappealing basketball to watch.

Cost to attend.
Let’s say I want to bring a family of 4. And I don’t want the crappy cheapest ticket in the building. Personally I would rather stay at home and watch on TV than have a bad set.
The average price for a SHU big east conference game ticket is $56 according to AI. Plus parking / food and drink and you are conservatively talking about a $350 expenditure to take your family to a game. With the cost of everything else around us going up with crazy inflation, is this a realistic number to expect the causal fan to spend on watching a Seton Hall basketball game vs Butler?

You need to develop die hards while they are students in school. Then you have an audience that is willing to overlook or ignore the challenges above. Until that happens most the fans will pass on attending a game for the various reasons above.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

I feel the most glaring thing is that he was a top flight pg as a player, he knows offensive skill set and prowess and he and the staff come across like you can just manufacture offense

 

[Piratz]

Question for you.

based on our present day NIL funding.

If the current team had players that outperformed expectations and had seasons equivalent to the levels that Richmond, Davis, Dawes, and Bediako had in 2023-24, how many of those players would we be able to retain for the following season?

Richmond > Clark
Dawes > / = Simpkins
Davis > anyone at his position
Bediako > / = Hines

and we are concerned that we might not be able to keep all three of what we do have.

If I’m understanding this right, if we’re talking about Richmond, Davis, Dawes, and Bediako and what they did in 2023-24 in this current market, our $6M could never afford them all. Maybe 2. Maybe. But that would be on Sha and how he wants to allocate. He’s the GM. Is he comfortable with allocating 75%+ of his budget to 2-3 star players? Or does he simply want to constantly recreate what he did this year?

Individual players are showcasing here and earning raises in the open market. It’s a conundrum for him in allocation of funds. It’s always been a conundrum for Seton Hall.

It’s basically like any other business industry that’s ascending. At some point it will level but we’re only in Year 3 of this. Then within that industry there are different market tiers. Seton Hall will always be a lower/feeder/transitionary place, same as we have been for the past 45 years of major conference play. But it’s way more extreme now with so many money streams uncorked. I also think the BE in general will be the *distant* 5th power conference as it settles.

We were hand wringing over Tyrese Samuel getting something like $400k by Florida in 2023. He’d get near $2M if not higher in 2026.

I think Budd Clark and Najai Hines will both be able to get $1.5M+ on the open market.

 

[PhishingPirate088]

After 4 seasons it’s very clear where things need to improve on the court to take the next step.

I do believe the scrambling around NIL and money is resolved at The Hall. That was problem #1 before the coaching, and why we couldn’t retain Samuel, Richmond, and Davis, then the disaster last year. If there’s one thing that awakens people in South Orange it’s money, and now they’re pouring a lot of their own into this team with the RS.

Granted we’ll always be mediocre at best on these resources amongst BE teams - forget power 4 football - but it’s improved right now, enough to field a consistent NCAAT team 7-10 seed if the pledge continues, IMO. With good coaching and team management you can pop. You’re right around that this year, see how it finishes.

We could have retained Samuel

 

[PhishingPirate088]

Question for you.

based on our present day NIL funding.

If the current team had players that outperformed expectations and had seasons equivalent to the levels that Richmond, Davis, Dawes, and Bediako had in 2023-24, how many of those players would we be able to retain for the following season?

Richmond > Clark
Dawes > / = Simpkins
Davis > anyone at his position
Bediako > / = Hines

and we are concerned that we might not be able to keep all three of what we do have.

With your logic (argument) couldn’t you say Sha couldn’t make the tournament with a 10 mil (2026 $) nil payroll?

Almost more damning on him

 

[hbkmyr]

That’s 100% factually incorrect and not an excuse for our fans showing either.

If NIL is a turn off to one’s interest, I totally get it. But most programs in the BE have seen their attendance numbers stay flat or even increase over the last few years. There are about 3 outliers and we are one of them.

And even when we were ranked for a hot second this year, that didn’t change. I was at MSG when we were ranked and there might have been 50 of us in the building.

Lol

 

[Piratz]

You could make an argument this years team is underachieving based on good win vs. bad loss relative to overall KP’s.

 

[Left Coast Pirates]

With your logic (argument) couldn’t you say Sha couldn’t make the tournament with a 10 mil (2026 $) nil payroll?

Almost more damning on him

No that’s not what I was getting at. Part of being a successful coach is establishing familiarity and continuity with your system / approach.

Retaining players and being able to work with them beyond 1 season is paramount to accomplishing that. Unless the talent is through the roof.

My point is we are offering the current players a platform to showcase what they can do for a larger pay day the following year. Everyone is now hopeful our NIL budget can bring back Clark, Hines, and Simpkins. The reality is their success here leads to greater opportunity somewhere else.

We will never be able to retain a player that has a similar year to what Kadary did unless the majority of our eggs are put into that basket.

So I DO NOT believe $6m gives you the chance for long term success. Nor do I think the problem has been resolved.

That budget will afford you:

1. Undersized players like Budd Clark
2. Under developed young big me like Hines
3. Players like Simpkins whose 3 point shooting was a glaring flaw in his game prior to this year.
4. Big guys with a decent track record at a lower level, like Payne, but apparently still not cheap.
5. Players with multiple years of mid-major experience, with no more eligibility afterwards that just want to play their final year and try to win.

This is NOT the budget to retain our top 3 players, plus add a prolific shooter, a properly sized and skilled PF, and find a warm body or two to contribute off the bench.

 

[Piratz]

No that’s not what I was getting at. Part of being a successful coach is establishing familiarity and continuity with your system / approach.

Retaining players and being able to work with them beyond 1 season is paramount to accomplishing that. Unless the talent is through the roof.

My point is we are offering the current players a platform to showcase what they can do for a larger pay day the following year. Everyone is now hopeful our NIL budget can bring back Clark, Hines, and Simpkins. The reality is their success here leads to greater opportunity somewhere else.

We will never be able to retain a player that has a similar year to what Kadary did unless the majority of our eggs are put into that basket.

So I DO NOT believe $6m gives you the chance for long term success. Nor do I think the problem has been resolved.

That budget will afford you:

1. Undersized players like Budd Clark
2. Under developed young big me like Hines
3. Players like Simpkins whose 3 point shooting was a glaring flaw in his game prior to this year.
4. Big guys with a decent track record at a lower level, like Payne, but apparently still not cheap.
5. Players with multiple years of mid-major experience, with no more eligibility afterwards that just want to play their final year and try to win.

This is NOT the budget to retain our top 3 players, plus add a prolific shooter, a properly sized and skilled PF, and find a warm body or two to contribute off the bench.

To use this season as a true building block, we better have >$9M ready IMO. Then see where this settles. Squeezing out another $3M isn’t insane in this era. Idk where we’ll cap out ultimately, but it’s gotta be close.

 

[PhishingPirate088]

No that’s not what I was getting at. Part of being a successful coach is establishing familiarity and continuity with your system / approach.

Retaining players and being able to work with them beyond 1 season is paramount to accomplishing that. Unless the talent is through the roof.

My point is we are offering the current players a platform to showcase what they can do for a larger pay day the following year. Everyone is now hopeful our NIL budget can bring back Clark, Hines, and Simpkins. The reality is their success here leads to greater opportunity somewhere else.

We will never be able to retain a player that has a similar year to what Kadary did unless the majority of our eggs are put into that basket.

So I DO NOT believe $6m gives you the chance for long term success. Nor do I think the problem has been resolved.

That budget will afford you:

1. Undersized players like Budd Clark
2. Under developed young big me like Hines
3. Players like Simpkins whose 3 point shooting was a glaring flaw in his game prior to this year.
4. Big guys with a decent track record at a lower level, like Payne, but apparently still not cheap.
5. Players with multiple years of mid-major experience, with no more eligibility afterwards that just want to play their final year and try to win.

This is NOT the budget to retain our top 3 players, plus add a prolific shooter, a properly sized and skilled PF, and find a warm body or two to contribute off the bench.

Why are all your posts so long?

So you’re just going to ignore my point you’re actually saying Sha should judged more harshly failing with what would have been a much larger nil squad? You disagree

You also say Hines is at the top or the top of our nil..why pay someone the most money and not play him? We couldn’t have used that 800k-1 mil somewhere else?

Money is an issue but you don’t think Shas handling of our money is an issue? Interesting

 

[HallGuy2323]

In my opinion the attendance challenge for the students vs alumni are two separate issues.

Here are my thoughts on the alumni issue:
- Start time
I know this sounds petty, but if your not initially vested in the team, you are not going to leave work early for a 6 pm start or sacrifice your sleep for the next day of work for an after 8 pm start. Don’t compare that sacrifice to a die hard. It’s not the same mind set for them. TV dictates scheduling, but you want that ideal 7 pm start time on a weekday to maximize fan turnout.

Speaking of TV
More and more people have cut the cord and don’t have 8 different streaming services.
To watch Seton Hall this year, you needed to have ESPN+, peacock, Tru Tv/ HBO-Max, and Foxsports1.
I guarantee most fans didn’t watch more than a game or two prior to Big East play. They have no idea who is on the team. They have zero connection to the players or even the program for that particular season.

Product on the floor:
I am not talking about Wins and Losses or NCAAT births. I am talking about the pure entertainment value of what they are watching. Jeremy Hazell, Isaiah Whitehead, or Myles Powell, were fun exciting players that could score and were in teams that could score as well. The average fan does not enjoy a rock fight with the score in the 50s and 60s. Heck, I was disgusted watching the recent road win @ Butler. That was visually unappealing basketball to watch.

Cost to attend.
Let’s say I want to bring a family of 4. And I don’t want the crappy cheapest ticket in the building. Personally I would rather stay at home and watch on TV than have a bad set.
The average price for a SHU big east conference game ticket is $56 according to AI. Plus parking / food and drink and you are conservatively talking about a $350 expenditure to take your family to a game. With the cost of everything else around us going up with crazy inflation, is this a realistic number to expect the causal fan to spend on watching a Seton Hall basketball game vs Butler?

You need to develop die hards while they are students in school. Then you have an audience that is willing to overlook or ignore the challenges above. Until that happens most the fans will pass on attending a game for the various reasons above.

Spot on. 100%.

 

[Left Coast Pirates]

Why are all your posts so long?

So you’re just going to ignore my point you’re actually saying Sha should judged more harshly failing with what would have been a much larger nil squad? You disagree

You also say Hines is at the top or the top of our nil..why pay someone the most money and not play him? We couldn’t have used that 800k-1 mil somewhere else?

Money is an issue but you don’t think Shas handling of our money is an issue? Interesting

1. You insult the length of my posts again and this will the last respectful reply I give. I don’t have the patience for childish keyboard warriors. I just ignore all posts that can’t be constructive debates.

2. It’s not an all or nothing proposition for me. Sha has some areas he needs to grow and things he should get credit for. Words like pathetic, failure, incompetent are not ways I would describe this season currently. So I am not going to take the rage bait anymore like others.

3. Hines should play the lion share of the minutes. It should be 28/12 split if you ask me. But he is clearly gasses and can’t handle that work load.

 

[PhishingPirate088]

1. You insult the length of my posts again and this will the last respectful reply I give. I don’t have the patience for childish keyboard warriors. I just ignore all posts that can be constructive debates.

2. It’s not an all or nothing proposition for me. Sha has some areas he needs to grow and things he should get credit for. Words like pathetic, failure, incompetent are not ways I would describe this season currently. So I am not going to take the rage bait anymore like others.

3. Hines should play the lion share of the minutes. It should be 28/12 split if you ask me. But he is clearly gasses and can’t handle that work load.

1. It’s not an insult it’s a question..keyboard warrior? Yea ok..comes off self important and obnoxious

2. I’ve never said any of those words so not sure what that means

3. Why is he gassed? Isn’t that a coach issue? You’re still not admitted that might be a misallocation of resources if he isn’t going to play him

In your opinion what are the areas sha should improve on?

 

[HallX2]

To use this season as a true building block, we better have >$9M ready IMO. Then see where this settles. Squeezing out another $3M isn’t insane in this era. Idk where we’ll cap out ultimately, but it’s gotta be close.

You’re likely right. But the cookie jar will run empty before too long.