Ray

[MattCalli77]

Was making Ray Tanner our AD one of the, if not the biggest **** up, of our entire history of an athletic program? I love Ray. Think he's an incredible man. Grateful for what he did as our baseball coach. However, I believe he ****** up our athletic program to the point of collapse.

 

[atl-cock]

Was making Ray Tanner our AD one of the, if not the biggest **** up, of our entire history of an athletic program? I love Ray. Think he's an incredible man. Grateful for what he did as our baseball coach. However, I believe he ****** up our athletic program to the point of collapse.

He apparently did okay in the non-hiring-coaches duties.

I also think everyone would have been better served if he had gone to a smaller school as AD for a few years before taking on the AD role at USC.

But for certain he was done with coaching after the 2012 season.

 

[muscleknight]

His coaching hires seemed to give us one good season then they fell into one of Brad Scott's fat rolls never to get out

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

His coaching hires seemed to give us one good season then they fell into one of Brad Scott's fat rolls never to get out

Excluding Manure from that list.

 

[18IsTheMan]

This Ray would have been a better AD

 

[rockingamecock]

You don't jump straight from a baseball coach to an athletic director, you just don't. What in the hell was USC thinking anyway? Oh, they weren't.

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

Was making Ray Tanner our AD one of the, if not the biggest **** up, of our entire history of an athletic program?

It's in the top 5. We've had a lot of **** ups. In no particular order:

1-Ray to AD
2-Leaving the ACC
3-Firing George Felton
4-Turning down bowl bids in '89 & '90.
5-Hiring of Will Muschamp

 

[atlanta cock#]

It's in the top 5. We've had a lot of **** ups. In no particular order:

1-Ray to AD
2-Leaving the ACC
3-Firing George Felton
4-Turning down bowl bids in '89 & '90.
5-Hiring of Will Muschamp

King Dixon
Fig Newton

 

[atl-cock]

You don't jump straight from a baseball coach to an athletic director, you just don't. What in the hell was USC thinking anyway? Oh, they weren't.

I think RT's athletics administration background was enough for him to get hired as AD at a small school, or as an assitant at a P4 school. But jumping from baseball coach to AD at a P4 school was too much of a stretch.

 

[Forkcock]

It's in the top 5. We've had a lot of **** ups. In no particular order:

1-Ray to AD
2-Leaving the ACC
3-Firing George Felton
4-Turning down bowl bids in '89 & '90.
5-Hiring of Will Muschamp

Firing Felton was stupid.

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

Firing Felton was stupid.

Massively stupid. He would have produced a consistent & long term winner.

 

[Forkcock]

Massively stupid. He would have produced a consistent & long term winner.

We always take the moral high ground while getting smoked by schools with a winning is everything philosophy.

 

[bayrooster]

We always take the moral high ground while getting smoked by schools with a winning is everything philosophy.

It's smug acceptance.

"Who is this 'we,' kemosabe?"

 

[Piscis]

At SC, the previous coach, AD, President, you name it, was always terrible and the reason for lack of success and the new coach, AD, President, you name it, is going to turn things around.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

We always take the moral high ground while getting smoked by schools with a winning is everything philosophy.

Exactly. It's nauseating.

 

[will110]

You don't jump straight from a baseball coach to an athletic director, you just don't. What in the hell was USC thinking anyway? Oh, they weren't.

Skip Bertman went from LSU baseball coach to AD.

More recently, John Cohen went from Mississippi State baseball coach to AD.

 

[sclawman77]

Only at Carolina would our greatest men's sports coach be promoted to AD and decimate the men's major programs during his overextended tenure.

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

Only at Carolina would our greatest men's sports coach be promoted to AD and decimate the men's major programs during his overextended tenure.

This.

 

[PD-Cock]

Correct me,if wrong, but wasn't there a wink, nod or secret handshake, if he won the title he'd would be considered for AD?

 

[RL09]

It's in the top 5. We've had a lot of **** ups. In no particular order:

1-Ray to AD
2-Leaving the ACC
3-Firing George Felton
4-Turning down bowl bids in '89 & '90.
5-Hiring of Will Muschamp

all of these were solid screw ups for sure when made.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

It's in the top 5. We've had a lot of **** ups. In no particular order:

1-Ray to AD
2-Leaving the ACC
3-Firing George Felton
4-Turning down bowl bids in '89 & '90.
5-Hiring of Will Muschamp

Will we be adding to this list or break the cycle?

 

[atl-cock]

It's in the top 5. We've had a lot of **** ups. In no particular order:

1-Ray to AD
2-Leaving the ACC
3-Firing George Felton
4-Turning down bowl bids in '89 & '90.
5-Hiring of Will Muschamp

all of these were solid screw ups for sure when made.

I don't think hiring Tanner as AD was a solid mistake - I figured he'd have a good support staff to guide him properly (silly me). Concerns and maybe a mistake? Yes, but not solid. Just my opinion.

Glad to see the Holbrook hire omitted, and many publicly acknowledging that it was the right hire at the time which ultimately did not work out.

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

Will we be adding to this list or break the cycle?

 

[jasonscottinsc]

Was making Ray Tanner our AD one of the, if not the biggest **** up, of our entire history of an athletic program? I love Ray. Think he's an incredible man. Grateful for what he did as our baseball coach. However, I believe he ****** up our athletic program to the point of collapse.

I think Ray gets too much of a bad rap. It's easy to be an armchair AD after the fact.
- Yes, he did do a lot of good things outside of coaching hirings: made USC 1 of about a dozen Athletics Departments around the country that actually operated in the black for most of his career, kept Dawn Staley from taking Ohio State job etc.
- Coaching hires: Looking at the "major sports" because the hires for the other sports have been pretty good....
Baseball: Holbrook - absolutely the right hire on the day he was hired. Made perfect sense and other places wanted him as well. It didn't work out as well as fans had hoped, but it was still absolutely the right hire. That happens sometimes. See Tom Herman at Texas. After that, Sullivan was going to be USC's next coach as soon as the season ended. Unfortunately for USC, UF got hot, won the CWS and UF admins come out of nowhere and say, we'll build you a new stadium if you stay. Tough break. That's not on Ray. So then plan B was Kingston. Not terrible and not great either. Good coach and recruiter, but never really understood SC and the importance of being part of the community here. Had some good years but couldn't get over the hump. Maineiri - I don't think anybody thought this would have been a disaster and most thought, at the very least, he'd get us back in position to host regionals. Seemed like a very good hire. Turned out tragically bad. But in my opinion, 2 out of 3 of the baseball hires seemed like no-brainers that just didn't work with some bad luck in between with the Sully situation.

Football: Yeah, nobody was excited about Muschamp, although he looked pretty good his first couple of years. Everyone knows how we ended up there though. Kirby was our guy and there was a handshake deal in place. Ray's biggest goof here was taking Kirby at his word and Kirby's agent told UGA what was happening and UGA fires a coach that was averaging 9.5 wins per year to get their guy. In retrospect, yeah Ray was naive in taking Kirby at his word. Beamer: thought this was a great outside the box hire. He has done some decent things and is coming off a down year. To be honest, USC will never have another Spurrier and for most of the last 100+ years, USC football has been mediocre or just plain crap, so this isn't just a Ray Tanner thing.

In reality, there are lots of "misses" by ADs. Tennessee is still looking for the next Pat Summit in women's basketball even though they made some hires that made sense. Kentucky has made some bad calls with men's basketball head coaches. Shoot, even Alabama fans are salty with their football coach. Very few can replace a legend/generational coach such as USC had to do with Tanner in baseball and Spurrier in football. USC will soon face the same problem with women's basketball whenever Staley retires. You can make a good hire, but they will likely never sniff another Final Four when she's gone.

 

[Piscis]

I think Ray gets too much of a bad rap. It's easy to be an armchair AD after the fact.
- Yes, he did do a lot of good things outside of coaching hirings: made USC 1 of about a dozen Athletics Departments around the country that actually operated in the black for most of his career, kept Dawn Staley from taking Ohio State job etc.
- Coaching hires: Looking at the "major sports" because the hires for the other sports have been pretty good....
Baseball: Holbrook - absolutely the right hire on the day he was hired. Made perfect sense and other places wanted him as well. It didn't work out as well as fans had hoped, but it was still absolutely the right hire. That happens sometimes. See Tom Herman at Texas. After that, Sullivan was going to be USC's next coach as soon as the season ended. Unfortunately for USC, UF got hot, won the CWS and UF admins come out of nowhere and say, we'll build you a new stadium if you stay. Tough break. That's not on Ray. So then plan B was Kingston. Not terrible and not great either. Good coach and recruiter, but never really understood SC and the importance of being part of the community here. Had some good years but couldn't get over the hump. Maineiri - I don't think anybody thought this would have been a disaster and most thought, at the very least, he'd get us back in position to host regionals. Seemed like a very good hire. Turned out tragically bad. But in my opinion, 2 out of 3 of the baseball hires seemed like no-brainers that just didn't work with some bad luck in between with the Sully situation.

Football: Yeah, nobody was excited about Muschamp, although he looked pretty good his first couple of years. Everyone knows how we ended up there though. Kirby was our guy and there was a handshake deal in place. Ray's biggest goof here was taking Kirby at his word and Kirby's agent told UGA what was happening and UGA fires a coach that was averaging 9.5 wins per year to get their guy. In retrospect, yeah Ray was naive in taking Kirby at his word. Beamer: thought this was a great outside the box hire. He has done some decent things and is coming off a down year. To be honest, USC will never have another Spurrier and for most of the last 100+ years, USC football has been mediocre or just plain crap, so this isn't just a Ray Tanner thing.

In reality, there are lots of "misses" by ADs. Tennessee is still looking for the next Pat Summit in women's basketball even though they made some hires that made sense. Kentucky has made some bad calls with men's basketball head coaches. Shoot, even Alabama fans are salty with their football coach. Very few can replace a legend/generational coach such as USC had to do with Tanner in baseball and Spurrier in football. USC will soon face the same problem with women's basketball whenever Staley retires. You can make a good hire, but they will likely never sniff another Final Four when she's gone.

Like everyone, ADs have to make decisions based on what they know now, not with the luxury of hindsight. The only WTF hire by Ray was Beamer. Hiring a position coach to be head coach of an SEC program was inexplicable. I don't care what his last name is.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

I think Ray gets too much of a bad rap. It's easy to be an armchair AD after the fact.
- Yes, he did do a lot of good things outside of coaching hirings: made USC 1 of about a dozen Athletics Departments around the country that actually operated in the black for most of his career, kept Dawn Staley from taking Ohio State job etc.
- Coaching hires: Looking at the "major sports" because the hires for the other sports have been pretty good....
Baseball: Holbrook - absolutely the right hire on the day he was hired. Made perfect sense and other places wanted him as well. It didn't work out as well as fans had hoped, but it was still absolutely the right hire. That happens sometimes. See Tom Herman at Texas. After that, Sullivan was going to be USC's next coach as soon as the season ended. Unfortunately for USC, UF got hot, won the CWS and UF admins come out of nowhere and say, we'll build you a new stadium if you stay. Tough break. That's not on Ray. So then plan B was Kingston. Not terrible and not great either. Good coach and recruiter, but never really understood SC and the importance of being part of the community here. Had some good years but couldn't get over the hump. Maineiri - I don't think anybody thought this would have been a disaster and most thought, at the very least, he'd get us back in position to host regionals. Seemed like a very good hire. Turned out tragically bad. But in my opinion, 2 out of 3 of the baseball hires seemed like no-brainers that just didn't work with some bad luck in between with the Sully situation.

Football: Yeah, nobody was excited about Muschamp, although he looked pretty good his first couple of years. Everyone knows how we ended up there though. Kirby was our guy and there was a handshake deal in place. Ray's biggest goof here was taking Kirby at his word and Kirby's agent told UGA what was happening and UGA fires a coach that was averaging 9.5 wins per year to get their guy. In retrospect, yeah Ray was naive in taking Kirby at his word. Beamer: thought this was a great outside the box hire. He has done some decent things and is coming off a down year. To be honest, USC will never have another Spurrier and for most of the last 100+ years, USC football has been mediocre or just plain crap, so this isn't just a Ray Tanner thing.

In reality, there are lots of "misses" by ADs. Tennessee is still looking for the next Pat Summit in women's basketball even though they made some hires that made sense. Kentucky has made some bad calls with men's basketball head coaches. Shoot, even Alabama fans are salty with their football coach. Very few can replace a legend/generational coach such as USC had to do with Tanner in baseball and Spurrier in football. USC will soon face the same problem with women's basketball whenever Staley retires. You can make a good hire, but they will likely never sniff another Final Four when she's gone.

Anyone who has been around sports more than a minute knows there's no such thing as "a sure thing" when hiring a coach. Some seem more certain than others but there is always the chance for a dumpster fire (along with successes that exceed expectations).

What wasn't mentioned were the inexplicable buyouts/extensions that cost many millions and were 100% avoidable. Like the Kirby incident you mentioned, he showed some seriously poor judgement/lack of experience in some high-stakes negotiations and lost millions. Of course, it's easier to tolerate when you're spending other people's money.

I'm hoping someday a "reporter" will do an analysis on his tenure as AD and document his track record in all the facets of his job - fund raising, hiring, etc., - and show the successes and the failures, not just try to paint him in one light or the other.

 

[Piscis]

Anyone who has been around sports more than a minute knows there's no such thing as "a sure thing" when hiring a coach. Some seem more certain than others but there is always the chance for a dumpster fire (along with successes that exceed expectations).

What wasn't mentioned were the inexplicable buyouts/extensions that cost many millions and were 100% avoidable. Like the Kirby incident you mentioned, he showed some seriously poor judgement/lack of experience in some high-stakes negotiations and lost millions. Of course, it's easier to tolerate when you're spending other people's money.

I'm hoping someday a "reporter" will do an analysis on his tenure as AD and document his track record in all the facets of his job - fund raising, hiring, etc., - and show the successes and the failures, not just try to paint him in one light or the other.

I remember Bama getting ridiculed when they hired Saban for the astronomical price of $4 million a year. After his first season, a 7-6 season with 5 wins vacated and a loss to La. Monroe, the ridicule only got more intense. He won the NC in his second year.

No hire is a "sure thing" one way or the other.

 

[bayrooster]

I remember Bama getting ridiculed when they hired Saban for the astronomical price of $4 million a year. After his first season, a 7-6 season with 5 wins vacated and a loss to La. Monroe, the ridicule only got more intense. He won the NC in his second year.

No hire is a "sure thing" one way or the other.

He did it at LSU, so his ability to win championships was never an unknown quantity for Alabama.

 

[atl-cock]

I think Ray gets too much of a bad rap. It's easy to be an armchair AD after the fact.
- Yes, he did do a lot of good things outside of coaching hirings: made USC 1 of about a dozen Athletics Departments around the country that actually operated in the black for most of his career, kept Dawn Staley from taking Ohio State job etc.
- Coaching hires: Looking at the "major sports" because the hires for the other sports have been pretty good....
Baseball: Holbrook - absolutely the right hire on the day he was hired. Made perfect sense and other places wanted him as well. It didn't work out as well as fans had hoped, but it was still absolutely the right hire. That happens sometimes. See Tom Herman at Texas. After that, Sullivan was going to be USC's next coach as soon as the season ended. Unfortunately for USC, UF got hot, won the CWS and UF admins come out of nowhere and say, we'll build you a new stadium if you stay. Tough break. That's not on Ray. So then plan B was Kingston. Not terrible and not great either. Good coach and recruiter, but never really understood SC and the importance of being part of the community here. Had some good years but couldn't get over the hump. Maineiri - I don't think anybody thought this would have been a disaster and most thought, at the very least, he'd get us back in position to host regionals. Seemed like a very good hire. Turned out tragically bad. But in my opinion, 2 out of 3 of the baseball hires seemed like no-brainers that just didn't work with some bad luck in between with the Sully situation.

Football: Yeah, nobody was excited about Muschamp, although he looked pretty good his first couple of years. Everyone knows how we ended up there though. Kirby was our guy and there was a handshake deal in place. Ray's biggest goof here was taking Kirby at his word and Kirby's agent told UGA what was happening and UGA fires a coach that was averaging 9.5 wins per year to get their guy. In retrospect, yeah Ray was naive in taking Kirby at his word. Beamer: thought this was a great outside the box hire. He has done some decent things and is coming off a down year. To be honest, USC will never have another Spurrier and for most of the last 100+ years, USC football has been mediocre or just plain crap, so this isn't just a Ray Tanner thing.

In reality, there are lots of "misses" by ADs. Tennessee is still looking for the next Pat Summit in women's basketball even though they made some hires that made sense. Kentucky has made some bad calls with men's basketball head coaches. Shoot, even Alabama fans are salty with their football coach. Very few can replace a legend/generational coach such as USC had to do with Tanner in baseball and Spurrier in football. USC will soon face the same problem with women's basketball whenever Staley retires. You can make a good hire, but they will likely never sniff another Final Four when she's gone.

A well thought out post.

Hopefully, Coach Staley retires from USC and can name a successor as Tanner did with Holbrook, but hopefully with better results.

 

[sclawman77]

Firing Felton was stupid.

What was the official reasoning for the firing? An alcohol problem or something to that effect? I remember he went on to be a successful assistant at UK and won a national title with Tubby Smith.

 

[sclawman77]

Like everyone, ADs have to make decisions based on what they know now, not with the luxury of hindsight. The only WTF hire by Ray was Beamer. Hiring a position coach to be head coach of an SEC program was inexplicable. I don't care what his last name is.

Ray was consulted by former players to hire Beamer. That is true. It was his ultimate decision but that weighed heavy. He really should haven't even been hiring the next coach after the Muschamp debacle. There are plenty of schools that have fired AD's for setting the program back five years like Ray did but we have no tradition of any meaningful success.