His form is good and his shooting % should be higher. I do not cringe when he goes to the line. More playing and more minutes should help him there as well
Rapid Reaction - Nebraska
- Thread starter Degaz-RU
- Start date
In terms of derricks, shooting, if I recall correctly when he was playing well last season, those elbow jumpers were near automatic. I’m thinking that because his percentage has been low. He’s got a bit of the yips. It would be nice to think that if he had a game where he really nailed a bunch of those that he’d get beyond it and return to being a threat from that range. I hope so. I really like the kids game overall.
Yips is a good analogy. He just fires away…he’s not “shooting “ the ball. Different than last year and even from high school games I saw him play.
He's been lost on defense most of the season but great potential with the long arms.
Make a few good defensive plays, dive for loose ball, tie a guy up to change possession …. and then have your whole team and coaches coming up and giving you high 5s……
yeah you’re right that does nothing to boost a players confidence
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I think we all see Gavin’s issues are upstairs. He didn’t forget how to play - he forgot how to play without thinking.
I think the big 3s were huge. Some guys improve incrementally. I suspect he’s going to have a game where it all clicks, nails his first few in a row, and stops overthinking everything. Once he puts up a 20 piece in Big Ten play it’s game on.
And I’ll bet it happens sooner, rather than later.
The defensive mistakes by Gavin seem correctable if the team communicates. He does not seem to understand or know when they are switching on picks and screens. But those are mistakes that are so noticeable and can not happen. They led to easy scores for Nebraska
If he doesn’t have an immediate open look, I’d love to see Gavin collect himself, protect the ball and use a jab-step or his pivot foot to create some space for himself before making a move.
Right now his only move, if he’s not putting up a quick shot, is to put his head down, take two dribbles and pass it to someone like a hot potato.
Right now his only move, if he’s not putting up a quick shot, is to put his head down, take two dribbles and pass it to someone like a hot potato.
Wow you’re smart. Picking on Gavin and Derek now. Hyatt in the past. Who is next?
I don't understand the point of this post. Hyatt's struggles last year are a big reason we missed the tournament. Gavin and Derek's struggles this year are a big reason why we're nowhere close.
You don't think it is over the top to say a freshman who has appeared in 17 games is the worst player (and now the 3rd worst, woo hoo) in the last whatever many years? Where's the "small sample size" courtesy for a highly rated recruit who is finding his footing? Look at his offer list again. There are a ton of strong programs on the list.
He has talent, but he hasn't figured out our defense yet and he went through a shooting slump. That's fair to say. It is a hot take to say he should be glued to the bench until he figures out the D... not that any of us attend practice to know what's happening there... It was pretty clear that Souf was never going to develop into a B1G player. Griffiths still has a ton of potential. Let the staff help him develop it.
FIG wasn't talking about potential, he was talking about performance.
Hopefully.
I'd still put in Noah at end game situations.
This isn't a small sample size freshman like Gavin or Davis.
Williams has taken 367 FTs across 5 college years and is at 59.4%
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/austin-williams-14.html
My goodness, this is an awful take.
On TKR and 'the other site', there isn't a single poster that overrates their own basketball knowledge as much as you do. No one comes close.
Performance has been bad to date, we can agree on that. I don't agree with benching him until he shows who-knows-what in practice. I believe he needs game time to develop, too.
Do you want to win? I want to win.
He isn't developing playing 7 MPG....he is just put in a position with no leash and on D playing to not mistakes and on O trying to impress in the 5 possessions he gets.
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I certainly have confidence in my "takes". My track record isn't bad. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong in the future, and I have zero problems admitting when I am wrong.
A few years I had a big miss when I thought losing Eugene would hurt our D significantly. I had high conviction and I couldn't have been more wrong.
I am starting to have major concerns if his D will ever get to a level where he can be counted on to playing 30+ MPG at RU. He has a LONG LONG way to go with his D, both in terms of learning and lateral quickness. Poor lateral quickness can be overcome as we learned with Paul and Cam. All the years of bad or no coaching have caught up with Gavin.
I want to win. Everyone does.
But at some point (perhaps not yet) the goals of season move past "winning".
Losing by 10 with Clif, Hyatt, A Williams, Oskar, Mag(?) isn't some noble thing.
I'd rather lose by 20 (with an eye towards next year) with Gavin, Simpson, Chol, Davis, J Williams and Woolf/Ogbole.
Players who may be here next year and needed.
If you want to give up on a talented but struggling true freshman, then you play him zero minutes. Horrible approach, IMO.
If a coach wants to coach, develop and improve a talented but struggling true freshman, you do what Pike and staff are doing. I think Pike will be rewarded with his approach.
If 10-10 puts you square on the bubble are you willing to lose a game so Gavin develops?
This is an open ended question. I don't agree with those that say he needs to be developed 7MPG or 20 MPG, but I respect and understand the arguement.
I just think we have 12 other scholarshipped athletes that deserve putting the team in the best position to win right now.
I am sure this isn't easy for Pike and defintely not for gavin.
don't think we are quite there yet.....but not that far from it.
As a fan it will be tough to 100% give up until we get that 11th league loss.
As a realist we need 1 of the next 2.
I would t want Pike to throw in the towel until it was 99% we arent getting at large.
If we get J will to burn a year (not sure of rules here) you would think we would at least try and go pedal to medal
As a realist we need 1 of the next 2.
I would t want Pike to throw in the towel until it was 99% we arent getting at large.
If we get J will to burn a year (not sure of rules here) you would think we would at least try and go pedal to medal
At 7 mpg, it’s hard to say that one player lost the game for the team, when there are 193 other minutes of play.
IMO, you are only looking at the cost of playing GG, and ignoring the benefit, near term (6 points in 7 minutes) and long term, when he turns it around. Pike is playing and coaching Gavin up to develop and invest in GG to achieve a benefit, just like he did with Caleb, Ron, Myles et al.
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Pike can’t “call it” because we need minutes to give guys a breather and need to manage his confidence and engagement, but I also disagree with Bac that last nigh
Not to mention the mental damage of not feeling like a member of the team with 0 minutes. I don’t care what people say, if you come in as a 4 star recruit and are glued to the bench with zero minutes, that takes a toll mentally.
Exactly. And I am sure if a recruit or a recruits Mom asks what Pike does when the player struggles as a true freshman, Pike DOES NOT say, “I bench you because you may cost us a win.”
As a human being, coaching and mentoring 18 year olds, you can’t give up so easily. This is one of the hard parts of coaching, and one of the most rewarding when that kid turns it on!
Again, the +/- for Gavin's minutes in the Nebraska game was +1 if we ignore a FT that was taken right after he subbed in while Nebraska was shooting two. The starters need rest at some point. What are the options?
Play Gavin
Play Oskar
Play Austin Williams at the 3, go small
Play Wolf at the 4 while Cliff is the 5, go big - this was ineffective earlier in the year
Until/unless JW is eligible and playing, I say playing GG for 5-10 minutes a game (depending on the situation) is a better use of those minutes than the other options.
Play Gavin
Play Oskar
Play Austin Williams at the 3, go small
Play Wolf at the 4 while Cliff is the 5, go big - this was ineffective earlier in the year
Until/unless JW is eligible and playing, I say playing GG for 5-10 minutes a game (depending on the situation) is a better use of those minutes than the other options.
This. I think FIG is looking at GG in a vacuum, without looking at these other considerations. The other options trumpet lists here are NOT better than playing Gavin for 8 minutes a night.
Also, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion (espoused by FIG in this thread) that playing GG for 7 or 8 minutes won't help in "developing" him. With all due respect, that's just absurd. Playing 20% of a college basketball game will absolutely "develop" him by exposing him to real life game situations that sitting on the end of the bench would not. Like others have suggested above, Pike is doing his best to thread a needle here in managing, coaxing, coaching, and developing Gavin IN LIMITED MINUTES, in order to squeeze the "good" out of Gavin while minimizing the "bad." With a NEED for a bench wing player to spell Mag and Hyatt, this is the best Pike can do given the circumstances.
The problem is in those 7 minutes despite scoring the 6 points he hurt the team.
In a 1 possession game Gavin out there for z7 minutes could be the difference. Same holds true for anyone, including Oskar.
I’m hoping we get at least one team we blow out and just let Gavin shoot at will late.
Okay, you're on record as thinking Gavin should not be playing at all. What is your solution then?
You know we can't play Mag, Hyatt, and AWill 35+ minutes per game if they collectively absorb Gavin's 8 minutes. Two of those players are still rounding into form from season ending injuries, and we just can't tire any of them out by playing them so much.
Nor do I think Palmquist is the answer. Nebraska started their 10-0 run in the first half when Palmquist (and Woolf) entered the game, and Oskar was particularly bad in that short stretch before Pike yanked him. Plus it's not like Oskar is even shooting well -- he's 5 for 23 from 3-pt range this year. So he's a net negative too.
We can probably surmise that Chol isn't the answer either, as Pike hasn't even trusted him with minimal minutes in anything other than garbage time.
Pike already tried playing Woolf as a 4 early in the year, and we probably broke the record for ineptitude in the first 5 minutes of several of those games. Pike dropped the Woolf experiment after about 8 games. It's not coming back.
Play more Noah and JMike in a "3-guard" set? That would hurt our defense and rebounding.
So, what is your solution to Gavin's 8 minutes per game?
This is my view as well. What was Gavin’s plus/minus for this game?
Even if he was personally responsible for Nebraska scoring 6 points during his 7 minutes, since he scored 6 points himself then he had a breakeven performance in a game that ended regulation in a tie.
And if that’s true then the other 9 players gave up the other 63 points while Gavin was on the bench. That’s an average of 7 points each. Should we sit them all?
To me the benefit of allowing Gavin a few minutes each half of this big game, where he nailed two 3-pointers, outweighed the negatives, because he didn’t really hurt the team while he was in, and Pike allowed him to gain some confidence that will pay dividends going forward.
Didn’t Gavin have a 0 +/- in his seven minutes? And when a talented recruit is struggling, do you just give up on him? Did Pike and staff give up on freshman Caleb?
Now I really cant wait to see Gavin put it together.
Yeah Noah in end game protecting a lead a no brainer . But down a few and need to clamp down, Austin is in for his defense and to make sure no opposing guard can bully us. I understand his lifetime college shooting is like 60% but like Cliff, who I just looked and is shooting 60% as well , I do not think either one has bad form or do I cringe when they go to the line. I think they are going in. Earlier this year , Wolf was making me cringe when he went to the line. But give him credit he was 4-4 at MSU and 2-2 the other night. No one on our team is an automatic miss and we should be a much better FT shooting team than what is occurring. Really baffling. We have Derek and Noah in the high 80’s and Hyatt is at 76%. The rest of the guys just have to practice more to raise their %
Matchup dependent. 3 guards against some. Woolfolk and Cliff together in others
In some cases yes Oskar.
Should we have given up on Jaden Jones? Are we in the business of giving out minutes based on recruiting rankings.
Newsflash…..when you combine potential offense and defense he may not be nearly as good as his ranking.
It is possible a lot of fans are underestimating how bad his defense is right now. We have NEVER has a player in Pikes tenure see the court in the rotation that is this bad on D
You are forgetting the rules around +/-
- Only Gavin's +/- matters
- Despite +/- being highly teammate dependent, Gavin is 100% responsible for his +/-
Clif gives up two post plays? That -4 is all Gavin's fault. - +/- is only relevant when it's bad. A neutral (or heaven forbid positive) +/- isn't considered relevant.
Talk about bad analysis.
Hyatt and somewhat Clif ruin that play.
Clif/Davis double in the corner. Hyatt half covers #53 (Clif's man) who moved next to Hyatt.
#4 (Hyatt's man leaves) and goes under the hoop by himself to have a cup of coffee.
Gavin's helps in the middle because his guy #3 is 10ft behind the 3pt line.
Hyatt and Clif are both just watching #53 with the ball.
Clif is literally standing in the middle of nowhere
They skip pass to #10 and Noah comes out with him.
After realizing Noah is there for #10, Gavin tries to get to #4 under the hoop.
Hyatt just stood in one spot and never moved, covered #53 when Clif was there then Hyatt tried to cover #3 (Gavin's man) - who was way behind the 3pt line. Hyatt just stood in front of two other defenders instead of keeping track of his man.
Gavin and Noah were the only ones actually moving trying to play defense and react to the ball.
(Davis' man just stayed in the corner so nothing really for him to do).
Unless we were in Zone - but then why is Clif out doubling at the 3pt line and not under the hoop.
Really? Do you think there might be one or two or a hundred differences in how Jones went about being a basketball player, student athlete versus how Gavin does? Do you think that with the way Gavin practices, that he earns every bit of time that he gets?
Glad you didn’t coach my kids. Have a great weekend.
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