Quite the coincidence

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

Alright, I’m not sure if the women’s soccer team is well versed in Colombian history, but that’s noted.

I really only see two explanations for outrage over kneeling. 1) You disagree with the message. 2) You believe the only possible action during the anthem is to stand, despite it merely being a custom, and that any other action is so outrageous that it’s enraging.

And I think I both positions are ridiculous

There are numerous US International teams that have done the same. To think that every nation is beyond reproach is not simply lacking an understanding but someone who chooses to be ignorant of the issue or a hypocrite.

You call it simply a custom and say there can only be two reasons. Again you refuse to believe there is another side to the story. It is your opinion but far from the truth.

And I am fine with you thinking those positions are ridiculous, but don't walk away wondering why there is no dialogue on the issue when you state everyone is a racist because they have a different set of feelings.

 

[bkingUK]

Also quite puzzling, they can’t grasp why these kids don’t agree with their opinion of the flag/anthem and what it means all while not even trying to understand the kids’ point of view.

Exactly. That’s it in a nutshell.

 

[willyclyde]

that’s a pretty far reach

I disagree. It’s been the #1 topic since it occurred and has produced multiple passionate, uncharacteristic comments from the coach of our team. Anyone who doesn’t think the backlash from our uninformed, irrational fans hasn’t affected this team is just plain ignorant imo. These kids see and hear EVERYTHING with social media these days.

 

[bkingUK]

There are numerous US International teams that have done the same. To think that every nation is beyond reproach is not simply lacking an understanding but someone who chooses to be ignorant of the issue or a hypocrite.

You call it simply a custom and say there can only be two reasons. Again you refuse to believe there is another side to the story. It is your opinion but far from the truth.

And I am fine with you thinking those positions are ridiculous, but don't walk away wondering why there is no dialogue on the issue when you state everyone is a racist because they have a different set of feelings.

There are way more than two sides to most stories. And regardless of the “stories”, they aren’t all equal. All opinions aren’t the same.

And if you think they are:
I think Hitler was a good guy. That’s my opinion.
And
I think Hitler was terrible. That’s my opinion.

must have equal merit. Right?

 

[willyclyde]

One thing I don’t think can be argued against: it isn’t a good look for our fans and I guarantee it will cost us more than a few recruits in the future. I haven’t seen ANY fanbases cause quite the uproar about a team kneeling (and there are a ton that have done/do it regularly). Hmm

 

[RunninRichie]

Bking and LeadBelly are the same guy there is no doubt.

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

There are way more than two sides to most stories. And regardless of the “stories”, they aren’t all equal. All opinions aren’t the same.

And if you think they are:
I think Hitler was a good guy. That’s my opinion.
And
I think Hitler was terrible. That’s my opinion.

must have equal merit. Right?

No. Each person has an equal right to their opinion.

Your opinion that someone is a racist or not a good human being because they have a different opinion does not make it the truth. You stated it was the truth from your perspective. You are entitled to your opinion but to say everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is a racist or not a good human is not the truth.

 

[bkingUK]

No. Each person has an equal right to their opinion.

Your opinion that someone is a racist or not a good human being because they have a different opinion does not make it the truth. You stated it was the truth from your perspective. You are entitled to your opinion but to say everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is a racist or not a good human is not the truth.

Again, it’s not a question of rights. We all have rights. Red herring.

Someone isn’t a bad human because they disagree with me. Someone isn’t a bad human if they are ignorant to adversity of African Americans. They just need to be educated.

But if you aren’t ignorant and choose to chastise black players for what they did... yes, you are a bad human.

Also, if you believe in God, you’re probably going to hell... and watch Kentucky players kneel and lose every game for eternity

 

[colonelcat78]

One thing I don’t think can be argued against: it isn’t a good look for our fans and I guarantee it will cost us more than a few recruits in the future. I haven’t seen ANY fanbases cause quite the uproar about a team kneeling (and there are a ton that have done/do it regularly). Hmm

NFL Fans express their anger
MLS Fans boo soccer players
Green bay Packer fans divided
States boycotting NFL coverage
and I can go on...and on...and on

This isn't new nor surprising.

 

[bkingUK]

I think there is also a utilitarian argument against kneeling with more validity. If you don’t think players should kneel because it’s not beneficial, I think that’s a more objective argument, and there might be truth to it.

 

[UK90]

A caller on KSR alluded to it this morning, but you can’t deny the fact of the timing. Go back to January 5th, we played a pretty good, tough game against Vanderbilt and appeared to possibly have turned the corner. Then we roll into

Then we find out they knelt. And everything has gone downhill since. Whether you agree or disagree with the act itself, you have to wonder if the backlash from the fans hasn’t caused this whole debacle.

“Downhill” from what? We were 3-6 going into the UF game, so it’s not like we were uphillpill before they knelt.

So I can’t say I’m buying a little theory. There hasn’t been any dramatic decline. Except for one game, we’ve stunk all season long.

 

[*CatinIL*]

I will not kneel before the American flag. If others want to, that's their choice, they have that right, but my respect for them drops considerably. They have the right to their beliefs and feelings and how they want to show it and I have that same right.

 

[deuces r wild_rivals39030]

Wow this whole kneeling thing and the subsequent backlash is causing us a ton of problems. My wife has a cousin who is a top 10 player in 2022 up here in Ohio. He is getting a lot of negative recruiting from rival coaches in regards to our fanbase. They are telling him "Why would you want to play for a fanbase that doesn't care about your plight". I guess the recruiters are smelling blood in the water, and have stated things like the fanbase doesn't like how you wear your hair when you are losing. Things like this are hard to overcome on the recruiting trail, in todays climate.

 

[RalphDaltonFan]

Said it in another thread but it applies more here, what was the end game for them doing it? True leaders who believe in any cause do it and stick to it. So if you were going to not kneel or take a knee--it should've been decided before the season and you better have a clear reason for doing so. So when Keion Brooks is asked about Rupp and gives a half *** answer because he literally didn't know a damn thing about Rupp....it holds little weight and is going to be trashed by majority of fans who do. He shouldn't be protected by Cal either--he chose to speak up (good for him) and did so without having any knowledge or facts (stupid for anyone). It's **** like that nobody respects yet we're quick to see adults run to "protect" the young man. I'm for anyone who wants to make positive changes or has a belief that is strong but it shouldn't take one fluff question to fluster and make you look like a complete clown poser like Brooks did in the Rupp scenario.

Systems aren't racist. Certain people are. The point behind any movement that actually effects change is your willingness to stand by what you believe. If it really means that much--you do something about it. If it's only worth doing so for one game and then minute you get trashed for it-you quit, then your movement was as empty as the production from the team on the court in '21 season. At some point you need to grow up and realize that it's perfectly right to take action but in doing so you will also get opposition and if you can't handle the return fire--then don't go with a weak *** gesture to appear to be "down for a cause".

This entire scenario was a disaster and example of lacking leadership from Cal down to the team.

 

[UK90]

Then we find out they knelt. And everything has gone downhill since. Whether you agree or disagree with the act itself, you have to wonder if the backlash from the fans hasn’t caused this whole debacle.

“Downhill” from what? We were 3-6 before they knelt, so when were we ever uphill?

So I can’t say I’m buying your little theory. There hasn’t been a dramatic change. Instead, except for one game, this team has stunk all season long.

 

[sam_o]

Yeah, that's it. The fans. It's the fans fault we are 4-9.

 

[*CatinIL*]

Yeah, that's it. The fans. It's the fans fault we are 4-9.

Hey now, I have to admit, I forgot to block out on the play underneath the basket at the end of the game last night. So I'll take the hit for last nights loss.

 

[e56]

Said it in another thread but it applies more here, what was the end game for them doing it? True leaders who believe in any cause do it and stick to it. So if you were going to not kneel or take a knee--it should've been decided before the season and you better have a clear reason for doing so. So when Keion Brooks is asked about Rupp and gives a half *** answer because he literally didn't know a damn thing about Rupp....it holds little weight and is going to be trashed by majority of fans who do. He shouldn't be protected by Cal either--he chose to speak up (good for him) and did so without having any knowledge or facts (stupid for anyone). It's **** like that nobody respects yet we're quick to see adults run to "protect" the young man. I'm for anyone who wants to make positive changes or has a belief that is strong but it shouldn't take one fluff question to fluster and make you look like a complete clown poser like Brooks did in the Rupp scenario.

Systems aren't racist. Certain people are. The point behind any movement that actually effects change is your willingness to stand by what you believe. If it really means that much--you do something about it. If it's only worth doing so for one game and then minute you get trashed for it-you quit, then your movement was as empty as the production from the team on the court in '21 season. At some point you need to grow up and realize that it's perfectly right to take action but in doing so you will also get opposition and if you can't handle the return fire--then don't go with a weak *** gesture to appear to be "down for a cause".

This entire scenario was a disaster and example of lacking leadership from Cal down to the team.

would kneeling and praying during the anthem be OK?

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

would kneeling and praying during the anthem be OK?

What backlash did Tebow get for praying? So the backlash does not just come from one side.

 

[sam_o]

Hey now, I have to admit, I forgot to block out on the play underneath the basket at the end of the game last night. So I'll take the hit for last nights loss.

Lol it's crazy the lengths some people will go to defend the 10 million dollar man

 

[Catman100]

They didn't know of any backlash when they knelt at Florida, so it is very possible things started changing for this team the next day when backlash began. Another misstep Cal allowed to happen this season. Should have really thought more about that decision than 90 minutes before tip off.

 

[TheWyldKat_rivals45219]

A caller on KSR alluded to it this morning, but you can’t deny the fact of the timing. Go back to January 5th, we played a pretty good, tough game against Vanderbilt and appeared to possibly have turned the corner. Then we roll into Florida and curb stomp them to the tune of a 20 point victory and all of BBN is feeling great.

Then we find out they knelt. And everything has gone downhill since. Whether you agree or disagree with the act itself, you have to wonder if the backlash from the fans hasn’t caused this whole debacle.

No I just think those teams we played sucked a little bit less than we do. I have seen no organize basketball from this team this year. Only the Florida game. That’s the only game they looked decent.

 

[RocknRollCats]

I think there is also a utilitarian argument against kneeling with more validity. If you don’t think players should kneel because it’s not beneficial, I think that’s a more objective argument, and there might be truth to it.

You finally gravitated to the salient point.

While I have no issue with the players' intent of kneeling during the Anthem, I strongly believe that their intended message and gesture of protest against racial injustice is diluted, at best, or overshadowed altogether, at worst, by the method.

The players know what they mean by the gesture - and have no intention of exhibiting disrespect for the flag or for what it stands for so many veterans, family of veterans, and Americans, generally.

That said, that the gesture is, in fact, offensive to so many of their fellow Americans should encourage them to find another means by which to convey the same, intended core message.

Incidentally, I agree with and support the message, but muddling the message with a controversial delivery method is not helping the cause.

 

[StaticKat]

If they wanted to show Solidarity, why not all shave their heads or maybe get the same tat.. now that would be some damn solidarity right there! No, they chose to kneel because it's in vogue and easy. No pain involved in kneeling.

 

[bkingUK]

You finally gravitated to the salient point.

While I don't inherently have an issue with the players' intent of kneeling during the Anthem, I strongly believe that their intended message and gesture of protest against racial injustice is diluted, at best, or overshadowed altogether, at worst, by the method.

The players know what they mean by the gesture - and have no intention of exhibiting disrespect for the flag or for what it stands for so many veterans, family of veterans, and other Americans.

That said, that the gesture is, in fact, offensive to so many of their fellow Americans should encourage them to find another means by which to convey the same, intended core message.

Incidentally, I agree with and support the message, but muddling the message with a controversial delivery method is not helping the cause.

While it MIGHT be correct, I’m not necessarily sold either. I think if you’re offended by this, then maybe you should be and it should be public. Maybe those are exactly the people who need a kick.

It’s certainly not the easy path.Yet to be seen if it’s the correct one.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

This war against systemic racism is fake. Its nothing more than a political ploy to get people fired up during an election, and we fell for it hard core. Look at the activity of BLM over the last 5 years. There was a spike in 2016, then next to nothing in 17, 18, and 19, and now another massive spike in 2020. So were there no bad events to get upset about in the non election years?

It's a political tool that does 2 things: makes people vote who otherwise may not, and ensures nothing will ever change. Afterall people who deeply believe the system will not allow them to succeed will understandably never really try. I promise you the gov't can't and doesn't even want to do anything of real value.

Don't forget to vote though...

The proof will be when nothing changes

Don't forget the most important reason....it makes $$$$$ for those who are the organizers/instigators. See Jesse, Rev. Al, etc.

 

[kb22stang]

A caller on KSR alluded to it this morning, but you can’t deny the fact of the timing. Go back to January 5th, we played a pretty good, tough game against Vanderbilt and appeared to possibly have turned the corner. Then we roll into Florida and curb stomp them to the tune of a 20 point victory and all of BBN is feeling great.

Then we find out they knelt. And everything has gone downhill since. Whether you agree or disagree with the act itself, you have to wonder if the backlash from the fans hasn’t caused this whole debacle.

The fans that complain about the kneeling are jackasses but they didn't cause the slide. This team just isn't very good. There is no one on offense that scares anyone, we don't have any creators or playmakers and the defense is solid but not good enough to force tempo and get easy baskets.

 

[RalphDaltonFan]

would kneeling and praying during the anthem be OK?

Are you asking what I personally approve of or just rhetorically asking this as you project criticism if the team kneeled to pray?

Team I coach for stands for the National Anthem at our HS games. Many spectators sit. Majority stand. Some conferences we play against decided to not play the National Anthem before a game because it was too controversial as some teams elected to take a knee and were getting booed, etc...some just stayed in locker room while we stood for anthem. My boss the HC who is African American told the team we're standing and explained to them why. He supports everyone's rights to express themselves but said that the flag and our country are why we can have this dialogue and feeling. Said we're doing it prior to every season and told parents if they have issue with it, he's open to hear them out and explain why he's doing it this way. No parent has had a problem with it after talking with him and only a few have taken him up on that discussion.

As for prayer--we have a team prayer before we leave to take the court. Think most teams that do this, tend to have it before/after games as well. Can't speak for everyone but every team I've played/coached with has done it that way.

 

[RocknRollCats]

While it MIGHT be correct, I’m not necessarily sold either. I think if you’re offended by this, then maybe you should be and it should be public. Maybe those are exactly the people who need a kick.

It’s certainly not the easy path.Yet to be seen if it’s the correct one.

The correct approach or action should be a direct function of the objective.

If the objective is to deliver a clear message regarding racial injustice, then, IMO, kneeling during the U.S. National Anthem is proving to be a poor vehicle for delivering a CLEAR message.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I refuse to believe a majority of UK fans were offended by a team kneeling as an act of solidarity. I don’t buy it. Good opportunity for racists to come out of their woodshed though

How about you stop calling everyone who disagrees with kneeling during our national anthem a racist. At best you're the racist here.

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

They didn't know of any backlash when they knelt at Florida, so it is very possible things started changing for this team the next day when backlash began. Another misstep Cal allowed to happen this season. Should have really thought more about that decision than 90 minutes before tip off.

The question posed was would it be ok to kneel and pray during the anthem. I responded because the NCAA has an actual history about kneeling and praying during a dead ball situation in football. The NCAA went so far as to penalize kneeling in prayer. Let me ask you this. What if a technical foul were given for kneeling since the NCAA felt it ok to make what Tebow did a penalty? What would the reaction be?

 

[kb22stang]

There are lots of fans who have family members or they themselves have been in the military, served this country, and have a great love for it and are proud of it. If they see someone kneeling during the playing of the national anthem and they feel that it is disrespectful, that's their prerogative. They have a different perspective than someone who has never served or defended the rights and freedoms that others enjoy. I hardly think that makes them racist.

What makes the statement or the offense racist is that many of those same people who take such great offense at kneeling in the name of our veterans support(ed) a president that called our veterans losers, denigrated a POW in McCain and called our generals war mongers. That's when it becomes perfectly clear that the offense is less about the kneeling and more about racism to anyone with an open mind.

And let's be perfectly clear, there is nothing offensive about kneeling during a song to highlight the unequal treatment of people of color in this nation, unless you are a racist. The evidence is clear, heck white people can storm the capital and get escorted out of the building with no violence from police, and if you choose to look the other way (which is everyone's prerogative) then you are being a racist because it means that you don't believe people should treated equally regardless of the color of their skin. But we know that we have a huge swath of the american people who are racists running around proudly displaying Natzi signs and flags and confederate flags which was never more evident than this year.

 

[Catman100]

The question posed was would it be ok to kneel and pray during the anthem. I responded because the NCAA has an actual history about kneeling and praying during a dead ball situation in football. The NCAA went so far as to penalize kneeling in prayer. Let me ask you this. What if a technical foul were given for kneeling since the NCAA felt it ok to make what Tebow did a penalty? What would the reaction be?

I am late to the post and was actually answering the OP, but between you and I, I am not sure how it was fair that Tebow is penalized but supporting BLM is not.

I frankly prefer it done the way the English Premier league does it. Both teams stand for the anthem and then take a knee right before the opening kickoff. When done that way, there is zero question what they are kneeling for, and they are not causing controversy with the folks who don't like anthem kneeling. When it is all said and done, there are always better ways to support your cause. Pissing off a lot of Cat fans who disagree with kneeling during the anthem, is never going to help your cause. EVER!!

 

[kb22stang]

I don't agree with it either, but in what world did they expect to get anything other than backlash?

They can say it isn't meant to divide and that its about police brutality. OK, well to us its disrespectful regardless of what the purpose is. Theres a time and place for that stuff and sporting events isn't it. They say "how else can we get you to listen?" All you're doing is causing more people to turn you off, and when they go so does the money train. Without fans, sports is not a financially viable career for most people. Just ask female athletes.

Let's take a Confederate flag. Some idiots use it for a symbol of white supremacy. But some do just use it as a symbol of bring a proud Southerner. The two have been conflated now, for obvious reasons.. My point is for some people it really is about heritage not hate. BUT, no one would sit there and get up in arms and taken aback if someone wore one into a group of black folks and act clueless as to why they're mad, or make statements acting like they didn't think it would be divisive or offensive. How aloof and oblivious can they be?

Define how kneeling during a song is offensive?

 

[EliteBlue]

You people saying no, are you sure you’re not just trying to convince yourself that there is no way that has any effect because you don’t agree with what they did and you are one that lashed out?

They were bad before. They weren’t really good against Vandy or MSU and barely survived against bad teams. The pieces didn’t fit. They looked good for one game and are playing exactly how they were prior to Florida.

 

[kb22stang]

I am late to the post and was actually answering the OP, but between you and I, I am not sure how it was fair that Tebow is penalized but supporting BLM is not.

I frankly prefer it done the way the English Premier league does it. Both teams stand for the anthem and then take a knee right before the opening kickoff. When done that way, there is zero question what they are kneeling for, and they are not causing controversy with the folks who don't like anthem kneeling. When it is all said and done, there are always better ways to support your cause. Pissing off a lot of Cat fans who disagree with kneeling during the anthem, is never going to help your cause. EVER!!

Tebow penalized? Are you insane? He was considered a god in college and had throngs of supporters. He wasn't good enough as a QB in the pros but he still got opportunities.

There is zero question of why they're kneeling and you know it. Do you realize that playing the anthem before a game is a modern invention. There's no reason to play it anyway. Now, if it's USA vs Canada, there's a reason. But UK v GA, they're both american schools.

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

I am late to the post and was actually answering the OP, but between you and I, I am not sure how it was fair that Tebow is penalized but supporting BLM is not.

I frankly prefer it done the way the English Premier league does it. Both teams stand for the anthem and then take a knee right before the opening kickoff. When done that way, there is zero question what they are kneeling for, and they are not causing controversy with the folks who don't like anthem kneeling. When it is all said and done, there are always better ways to support your cause. Pissing off a lot of Cat fans who disagree with kneeling during the anthem, is never going to help your cause. EVER!!

Not sure Tebow was penalized. NCAA rule may have come after he was gone. Hell I don't even know if it is still in effect. Only point I was making is how in the hell is kneeling after scoring a TD controversial (dead ball and play clock running)? Yet it was and there was an outcry.

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

Tebow penalized? Are you insane? He was considered a god in college and had throngs of supporters. He wasn't good enough as a QB in the pros but he still got opportunities.

There is zero question of why they're kneeling and you know it. Do you realize that playing the anthem before a game is a modern invention. There's no reason to play it anyway. Now, if it's USA vs Canada, there's a reason. But UK v GA, they're both american schools.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1995-08-16-9508160030-story.html

The NCAA made it a rule before Tebow. They may have rescinded before him but if you took a knee it was a penalty. Tebow was also mocked significantly.

 

[j4uk]

I will not kneel before the American flag. If others want to, that's their choice, they have that right, but my respect for them drops considerably. They have the right to their beliefs and feelings and how they want to show it and I have that same right.

kneeling while the national anthem is being played is taking a giant **** on the country and the people who fought and died for this country so that these spoiled *** kids that don't know jack **** can play basketball and play in the NBA. it's funny how most people have just started paying attention to "Black lives matter" and antifa just the past couple of years. shows how stupid most people are. i've followed these treasonous murdering enemies for nearly 15 years in the early obummer administration. it wasn't until lame stream media started covering them that most people even payed any attention. I'm sure there are some nutjobs on this forum who actually support antifa. if you think things were bad in 2020, wait and see what this kid sniffing, lying, cheating dirtbag gives you very soon. you'll be begging for 2020 to return. fck blm and fck antifa and fck anyone who takes a knee. you don't love this country or the freedom we have and you certainly don't give a damn about the people who fought so that your lame *** can exist.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

I refuse to believe a majority of UK fans were offended by a team kneeling as an act of solidarity. I don’t buy it. Good opportunity for racists to come out of their woodshed though

So, if you oppose disrespecting the world-recognized symbol of our country and national anthem, you're a racist? What kind of bizarre crackpot world do you live in?
I'll go further and repeat what I and many others have posted in threads like this before. The whole "systemic racism/racial inequality" premise is false. Protesting for a non-existent problem is self-indulgent and narcissistic. It is indicative of the "look at me" culture we currently live in.
When athletes and entertainers start kneeling for the 60 million American children (both black and white) whose lives were ended in the womb since 1973, then I'll take notice.