Quick historical comparison

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
In his first three seasons, Richard Williams was 34-51. As of today, Rick Ray is 33-51. Richard was 16-38 (.296) in the SEC those first three years. Ray is currently 9-33 (.214). Ray would have to finish strong to be ahead of Richard (in winning %) by the end of his third season, but barring a complete collapse, he'll be in the same neighborhood. The next two years though, Richard went to the NIT, then won the SEC in 91. I don't think we're gonna follow that path, but at least it's something to cling to.
 

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
In 1990, Richard Williams ...

In his first three seasons, Richard Williams was 34-51. As of today, Rick Ray is 33-51. Richard was 16-38 (.296) in the SEC those first three years. Ray is currently 9-33 (.214). Ray would have to finish strong to be ahead of Richard (in winning %) by the end of his third season, but barring a complete collapse, he'll be in the same neighborhood. The next two years though, Richard went to the NIT, then won the SEC in 91. I don't think we're gonna follow that path, but at least it's something to cling to.

Hired Rick Stansbury. Go back and take a look and the talent that Williams and after Richard, Stansbury had as assistants.

Sorry, but Ray has 'zip' as far as assistants go. Just don't think he is getting a whole lot of help.

One huge disadvantage Ray faces. Richard Williams took over a team with a ~30 year history of lousy BB; while Ray took over from the 'winningest' coach in MSU BB history. Big difference.
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
There are hundreds of differences. Just pointing out that with all the differences, they have basically the same record at this point in their careers.
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
10
38
I'd like to see us upgrade our assistants also. I really hope ray can do enough to keep his job bc I love how the '16 class is shaping up. If we can somehow add Kegler or Hughes to simonds and hicks, that'd be one of our best classes ever.
 

BulldogBlitz

Heisman
Dec 11, 2008
16,290
20,603
113
the team that beat shaq and ls-who for the sec was not a product of ********** crootin.
 
Aug 15, 2006
1,913
541
113
Great point, Dawg@Auburn. Both facing rebuilds and are similar in their record outcomes.

If anyone cannot see the improvement in the last two weeks, especially considering Sword and Ready are now playing near their potential...they do not know the game of basketball.

This team will continue to improve all while losing some they should not lose and winning a few they shouldn't. Support the team (and the coach) for now, as they are the hand we have been dealt.

Improvement is occuring.

Rah rah..


In his first three seasons, Richard Williams was 34-51. As of today, Rick Ray is 33-51. Richard was 16-38 (.296) in the SEC those first three years. Ray is currently 9-33 (.214). Ray would have to finish strong to be ahead of Richard (in winning %) by the end of his third season, but barring a complete collapse, he'll be in the same neighborhood. The next two years though, Richard went to the NIT, then won the SEC in 91. I don't think we're gonna follow that path, but at least it's something to cling to.
 

AHSDawg

Redshirt
Sep 18, 2012
1,680
0
0
Simple question but who have we beaten that we shouldn't? I mean, granted... At this point, us winning is practically always an unexpected surprise but I would think of a 'win over a team we shouldn't have beaten' as a ranked team or a 'good' team. Not a 10-8 Auburn at Auburn or a 11-6 Vanderbilt team at home.

And, I do not think RR took over a Bob Boyd situation...
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
10
38
Simple question but who have we beaten that we shouldn't? I mean, granted... At this point, us winning is practically always an unexpected surprise but I would think of a 'win over a team we shouldn't have beaten' as a ranked team or a 'good' team. Not a 10-8 Auburn at Auburn or a 11-6 Vanderbilt team at home.

And, I do not think RR took over a Bob Boyd situation...

Well we were underdogs to both vandy and auburn, so there's that
 

Hammer Down

Redshirt
Jul 19, 2014
1,360
0
0
Who cares if we are an underdog? Does that somehow make losing better? The concept of expectations is the biggest media contrived bull in sports today.
 

AHSDawg

Redshirt
Sep 18, 2012
1,680
0
0
Why don't we look at the last 3 yrs BEFORE they took over the job?

I would say that is a much better representation of what they have done if you want a true grasp of what they are doing AND what they took over.

RR (RS's previous 3 years)
21-12
17-14
24-12

RS (RW's previous 3 years)
15-15
12-18
26-8

RW (Bob Boyd's previous 3 years)
8-22
13-15
9-19

I even gave this stat 3 years so as to not short RW the Final 4 year. But, to even make the comparison that the program when RR took over was CLOSE to what RW took over is a laugh... Some of y'all really do not have any idea how bad the Bob Boyd era was... The fact that RW won the SEC in 90/91 was beyond absurd in terms of coaching...

All credit does not and should not go to RS. RW was definitely the catalyst but to say that RS left it in the way Bob Boyd did is just dumb.
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
Does this even need an answer? Either you know the schedule or you don't, and as you said "good" is relative. On the road at Auburn was a good win. First win here since 2008. Packed house, the "it" coach that everyone wanted, the stigma of a long road losing streak hanging over our heads......and we won. Auburn's record isn't great, but you won't find anyone who says that wasn't a good win.
 

AHSDawg

Redshirt
Sep 18, 2012
1,680
0
0
Again, I say that being REALLY bad and beating a slightly LESSER bad team isn't really 'beating a team we shouldn't have beaten'. But, I guess that is some true optimism! We strive to be the worst and that way, we can always be happy with ANY win.
 

AHSDawg

Redshirt
Sep 18, 2012
1,680
0
0
a good win for 'us' isn't really a good win, period... They also lost to Coastal Carolina at home. Again, I am not saying that we haven't won good games for 'us' but that is a FAR CRY from just classifying it as a 'good win'. Hell, Auburn is 10-9 now... Lets just not get insane here.

And, I will remind you that you seem to be the one bringing up a lot of these threads that lend themselves to the Rick Stansbury discussion that you claim to hate so much...

Edit to add. yes, I know CC is good. They are 15-5. But they lost to Ole Miss in Oxford, Ut-Chat, Gardner Webb and UNC Asheville so lets not tout them as the greatest team ever...
 
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DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
Why don't we? Because the records don't even begin to tell the story. But knock yourself out.

If you want to play the RW comparison out.....RW had a complete disaster of a first year. Then he recruited some guys and played a lot of them as freshmen because they were about all he had. The next year a key piece of that group became eligible, but there was little change to the W-L record. The next year - the core group's junior year - there was still very little improvement to the record. Finally, after basically four years of playing the same core guys, we won the SEC then promptly bowed out in the first round of both the SEC and the NCAA tournaments. I doubt Rick Ray will sniff the SEC championship next year or the year after, but to this point their achievements are similar.
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
Keep on exaggerating things. It was a good win for a program in the state ours is in. No denying that. No one is trying to act like we went on the road and won at Cameron Indoor. We beat an Auburn team that we might (hopefully) be fighting for position with in the SEC tournament. At this point the goal of each program should be to not be playing on the first day of the SEC Tournament. Baby steps.
 

AHSDawg

Redshirt
Sep 18, 2012
1,680
0
0
THAT is all you see in differences between Ray and Williams? If so, you really are in denial. You people keep wanting to call the end of RS a dumpster fire.... Hell, RW took over a 20 year smoldering ruin of a dumpster fire. Good grief. You are just trying too damn hard to overcome yourself with the Ray isn't that bad argument....
 

AHSDawg

Redshirt
Sep 18, 2012
1,680
0
0
my god... Baby steps for our basketball program is beating a 10-8 team... my, how we have fallen... And, we have people on message boards touting THAT (beating a 10-8 team) as a plus...

If you could not see that our program was becoming competitive under RW early, you are crazy. Again, I say this. You are crazy...
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
10
38
THAT is all you see in differences between Ray and Williams? If so, you really are in denial. You people keep wanting to call the end of RS a dumpster fire.... Hell, RW took over a 20 year smoldering ruin of a dumpster fire. Good grief. You are just trying too damn hard to overcome yourself with the Ray isn't that bad argument....

And you're so damn set on Ray is terrible that you can't acknowledge when we do show improvement.

I'm not sure if ray will or even should be here next season, but I won't hold my nuts on him while he is here
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
I have already acknowledged that there are hundreds of differences. I merely found it interesting that despite the differences, Ray and Williams have similar records at this point in their careers. That's not an argument in favor of Rick Ray. It's just an observation. What they took over was different, although the degree of different-ness could be (and has been) debated ad nauseum. Where Ray goes from here may differ from Williams too.
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,020
1,894
113
I know exactly how that team played. Those years coincide with my years as a student at State. I was in attendance at most every game (home and away) for the 89-90 and 90-91 seasons, from Shreveport to Syracuse and most points in between. We had been competitive for the most part when those guys were freshmen. Adding Cam and Tony Watts made us moreso when they were sophomores. But we didn't win until they were seniors. Well, we slipped into the NIT their junior year, but it was a little disappointing when we harbored NCAA hopes.

We haven't been nearly as consistent or as good under Ray unfortunately. The SEC was better then than it is now, and we are worse. Still, winning on the road against anybody is a baby step, and yes, we had fallen that far that it is cause for happiness. There's no blame being assigned with that statement of how far we'd fallen. Rick Ray is the head coach and it's his job to produce on the court and keep the off the court part in order as well. The question was asked (even though the answer was already known) about who our last win over a good team was. If your definition of good is, as you said, a ranked team, then you already knew the answer. What answer did you want to a question with no answer? I don't know what else to say. Auburn, Vandy and FSU are our best wins this year. None of them are even close to being good enough to be ranked.
 
Aug 15, 2006
1,913
541
113
I was a student during the Boyd/Williams transition, and while you may think it isn't comparable, the fact of the matter is the program was in a worse situation post-Stansbury. Agree to disagree as much as you please, but it just signifies how little you either have kept up with the program and/or how little you know of the game of basketball. Williams had players to coach, Ray did not. Six scholarship players!?! Really?
Geez...

I would say that is a much better representation of what they have done if you want a true grasp of what they are doing AND what they took over.

RR (RS's previous 3 years)
21-12
17-14
24-12

RS (RW's previous 3 years)
15-15
12-18
26-8

RW (Bob Boyd's previous 3 years)
8-22
13-15
9-19

I even gave this stat 3 years so as to not short RW the Final 4 year. But, to even make the comparison that the program when RR took over was CLOSE to what RW took over is a laugh... Some of y'all really do not have any idea how bad the Bob Boyd era was... The fact that RW won the SEC in 90/91 was beyond absurd in terms of coaching...

All credit does not and should not go to RS. RW was definitely the catalyst but to say that RS left it in the way Bob Boyd did is just dumb.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,847
14,620
113
FWIW, I think any win is a good win. I see no need in qualifying wins at this point.
 

Jackdragbean

Redshirt
May 23, 2006
695
0
0
RR sucks balls. If you can't see that, I'd like a toke of whatever the hell you are smoking. Williams is gone. Stans is gone. Ray needs to be put on a rail and carried out of town.