Question for the Gun law experts.

tbaydog

All-American
Feb 25, 2008
3,040
5,755
113
My father brought home a German 9mm, ( P38 ) from WWII. Never registered anywhere. Should I register?
 

Dawgbite

Heisman
Nov 1, 2011
10,061
11,548
113
There is no such thing as registering a gun in America.

There is no data base showing who owns what gun. When you purchase a new gun in a Gun store and they call in to get approval, the government only knows you are buying a gun, not what you have bought nor the serial numbers of what you buy. If a gun is used in a crime, law enforcement has to contact the manufacture to find out which distributor it was sold to. They then have to contact the distributor to find out which dealer it was sold to. They then have to contact the dealer who will have to search, most of the time manually, through all those forms to find out who they sold it to. The BS you see on TV about a cop typing in a computer and coming back with who a gun is registered to is just that, BS. There is a paper trail on new gun purchases but that trail stops at your local dealer because that form you fill out never goes beyond his shop. If a gun shop closes or changes dealer license names, all previous forms are supposed to be given to the government but they are not entered in a data base, they are just stored in paper form.
 

BirminghamDAWG

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
179
5
13
Thanks for the info. I've always wondered this. I knew I never "registered" my guns and that my name was not in some database but I wasn't sure the exact procedure. Good info to know.
 

Dawgzilla

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
5,406
0
0
You may want to check the State laws of California, New York, Hawaii, and a couple of others before making that bold of a claim. There's no national registry, but some states have registration requirements. Most do not, and the ones that do might exempt the OP's gun both on the grounds of inheritance and being a historical gun. I think Hawaii has a pretty strict registration requirement.
 

horshack.sixpack

All-American
Oct 30, 2012
12,419
9,926
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Do you want the government to come take it from you when our nation's collective brains finally fall out?
 

Dawgbite

Heisman
Nov 1, 2011
10,061
11,548
113
Sounds like a great system**
Efficiency at its finest. I almost bought a gun shop a few years back and spent a lot of free time working in the shop and had to search for a few forms during that time. If you don't have a good idea as to when the gun was purchased from the distributor or sold to the customer then you literally have to sit down with the log books and hunt the serial number. Once you find that in the log book, you have the date it was sold, then you have to go search through that quarters forms in the filing cabinet in order to find the customers name. To clarify my previous post, there is no national registry nor a Ms registry for firearms, can't speak for the socialist states.
 

AlSwearengen

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
1,237
0
0
Ahh...yes..the infamous "the gubment is going to git all our guns". That is truly hilarious.

Because it has never happened before, has it? Why do so many folks have such a problem with this? Or is this a liberal tactic of demeaning your opponent? You know, one of the "rules for radicals" from one of the books that ya'll subscribe to.

It is going to be an ugly 17'n day when ya'll try it. Black flags will be hoisted everywhere.
 
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johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
5,812
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Ahh...yes..the infamous "the gubment is going to git all our guns". That is truly hilarious.

You should live in Australia. You would really enjoy all their citizens patting you on the back about how right you are on this point. Y'all could laugh about how stupid people are to worry that a government might try to confiscate guns.
 

dorndawg

Heisman
Sep 10, 2012
9,463
10,976
113
I guess it also weirds me out that there's this almost fantasy some seem to have about having a shoot out with the government - like they're HOPING & PRAYING for the day it happens.

I like guns, I have a safe full of 'em & a conceal carry license. But I'll never understand the fetishization some people have with them. None of this directed personally at you Al S, your comments merely made me think of it.
 

Dawgology

Redshirt
Sep 15, 2011
828
1
0
I'm sorry...this is all kinds of incorrect

There is no data base showing who owns what gun. When you purchase a new gun in a Gun store and they call in to get approval, the government only knows you are buying a gun, not what you have bought nor the serial numbers of what you buy. If a gun is used in a crime, law enforcement has to contact the manufacture to find out which distributor it was sold to. They then have to contact the distributor to find out which dealer it was sold to. They then have to contact the dealer who will have to search, most of the time manually, through all those forms to find out who they sold it to. The BS you see on TV about a cop typing in a computer and coming back with who a gun is registered to is just that, BS. There is a paper trail on new gun purchases but that trail stops at your local dealer because that form you fill out never goes beyond his shop. If a gun shop closes or changes dealer license names, all previous forms are supposed to be given to the government but they are not entered in a data base, they are just stored in paper form.

Any federal arms dealer (i.e. anyone who sells guns are as a business) is required to submit paperwork to ATF regarding who purchased the gun along with make, model and serial number. the feds do regular audits on this and if they find that a dealer is not in compliance with it...well...things get bad for the dealer. That phone call they make is simply to ascertain whether or not the individual buying the gun is a convicted felon. Convicted felons may not legally buy a gun. I believe a gun dealer has maybe 24 hours to submit the proper forms to ATF. This database is maintained by the feds and is absolutely, 100% searchable by law enforcement. Now...if the buyer turns around and sells it to someone else (privately) then that is not tracked. The ATF just maintains a database of persons who bought their guns through a legitimate seller. It is the private sellers responsibility to make sure the purchaser is not a convicted felon though. You can catch some serious charges for selling to a convicted felon even if you were unaware that they are a felon.
 

horshack.sixpack

All-American
Oct 30, 2012
12,419
9,926
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Ahh...yes..the infamous "the gubment is going to git all our guns". That is truly hilarious.

Perhaps my native american heritage has me cynical or the left's inability to grasp facts that tighter gun control doesn't work. If they can't grasp that fact or aren't willing to recognize it and work from there, who knows what's next? Maybe we will go back to bleeding people to cure them of illness...
 

dorndawg

Heisman
Sep 10, 2012
9,463
10,976
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Correct - no one here can name a single country with tighter gun laws than the US that has a lower rate of death involving guns.*********
 

horshack.sixpack

All-American
Oct 30, 2012
12,419
9,926
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Why would I compare other countries when I can look at Chicago, DC, etc. and see that when I overlay gun violence with gun policy the most violent places have the toughest laws? I do applaud your attempt to ignore the most available data about how it works in the US. You might note that the US was founded because its founders wouldn't abide the crap thrown on them by their oppressive governments. It may be your goal that the US be more like other countries, but it is not one of mine.
 

dorndawg

Heisman
Sep 10, 2012
9,463
10,976
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Get that bee out of your bonnet,

you stated categorically tighter gun laws don't work, and I agreed with you - OF COURSE no one can show any examples of such a thing. You're clearly a wise & learned individual.********
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
5,812
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Why do you think it worked well for them? The drop in gun deaths after the law change doesn't look hugely different from the drop in murder rates in the U.S. over the same time. Looks like their gun deaths dropped around 55% from '93 to 2012 where as our murder rates dropped about 45% over the same time period. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/

Maybe their suicide rates stayed level and murders dropped? Also doesn't look like it resulted in any decrease in violent crime in Australia.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
5,812
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you stated categorically tighter gun laws don't work, and I agreed with you - OF COURSE no one can show any examples of such a thing. You're clearly a wise & learned individual.********

You shouldn't be a smart *** while also making dumb mistakes. Yes, people can show countries with tighter gun laws and lower gun violence and people can show examples of countries with tighter gun laws and higher gun violence. LIkewise, they can show countries with looser gun laws that have lower gun violence, and countries with looser gun laws that have higher gun violence. So finding an example of a place with tighter gun laws with lower rates of gun violence doesn't disprove a categorical statement that tighter gun laws don't work.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
Why would I compare other countries when I can look at Chicago, DC, etc. and see that when I overlay gun violence with gun policy the most violent places have the toughest laws? I do applaud your attempt to ignore the most available data about how it works in the US. You might note that the US was founded because its founders wouldn't abide the crap thrown on them by their oppressive governments. It may be your goal that the US be more like other countries, but it is not one of mine.

Ah, yes. The infamous Chicago citation.

Straw sales are part of a problem of not maintaining a registry, if you want to bring that one into the argument. NYC and their relative lack of gun crime despite pretty restrictions on firearms, would also be a part of that too.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
5,812
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Ah, yes. The infamous Chicago citation.

Straw sales are part of a problem of not maintaining a registry, if you want to bring that one into the argument. NYC and their relative lack of gun crime despite pretty restrictions on firearms, would also be a part of that too.

Straw sales in Chicago aren't a problem because of the existence or non-existence of a registry. It's actually policy in Chicago to not go after straw purchasers. Bad politics to go after girlfriends and grandmothers of gang members, even if prosecuting them would be a common sense way to help keep felons from acquiring guns.
 

BELdog

Sophomore
Aug 23, 2012
1,166
117
58
You could not be more wrong. Dawgbite, actually nailed exactly how the process works. Nothing goes to the Feds. All 4473s remain "in house" and Uncle Sam doesn't even know for sure that you purchased a firearm. They just know that a background check was processed.
 

KurtRambis4

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
15,926
0
36
I wonder

what those numbers look like when you sort out guns used in the death that were held legally/illegally?
 

Dawgology

Redshirt
Sep 15, 2011
828
1
0
That's funny. Just today I ran an eTrace through the ATF on three guns by make, model, and serial number. Got last owner name and address in under 30 minutes back on them. But what do I know????

ETA: I'm out this isn't even worth arguing over. Believe what you want to but I promise you that I'm right.
 

ShrubDog

Redshirt
Apr 13, 2008
5,307
3
38
Folks say the ATF violates the1986 Firearms Owners’ Protection Act 18 U.S.C. 926(a)

The NFA rules are changing on July 13th and may cost more or be harder to get your goods. I have not read into the changes but my friend who does custom builds was telling me about the change.
 

00Dawg

Senior
Nov 10, 2009
3,353
620
93
The short answer is that a national gun database is illegal.

However, the ATF has been skirting the law in a variety of ways, so a database of some size exists. Depending on where a gun was purchased, it could very well be in their electronic system and immediately accessible. Others will require manual searching and a longer turnaround time, and if a store you purchased from is still open and has never had a reason to turn over related old records to the authorities, it shouldn't be accessible at all.
 

horshack.sixpack

All-American
Oct 30, 2012
12,419
9,926
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Apologies. I misinterpreted sarcasterisks. Don't work and Sixpack. Now I gotta go check my work and make sure i didn't gun rant in some customer email...
 

vorticityDawg

Redshirt
Feb 24, 2008
104
0
16
actually, that's exactly what it does

...So finding an example of a place with tighter gun laws with lower rates of gun violence doesn't disprove a categorical statement that tighter gun laws don't work.

Your statement that "tighter gun laws don't work," is absolute, so a single contrary example disproves it. The same example does NOT prove that tighter gun laws ALWAYS work. It is wise to not participate in philosophical arguments without a basic understanding of logic. Just sayin'.
 

dickiedawg

All-Conference
Feb 22, 2008
4,608
1,580
113
We routinely get trace requests called in. I don't know how an "e-trace" would work so quickly- but when we get a request called in, they tell us who shipped it to us, when, and the serial number. Then we check out records to see who it was sold to and when, I have to find the 4473 and fax it in.
BELdawg is right that we don't submit that paperwork to anyone until they request a trace on a specific gun.
The exception to that is when someone buys multiple handguns at a time or in a brief period , we have to report that to local and state authorities.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
5,812
113
Your statement that "tighter gun laws don't work," is absolute, so a single contrary example disproves it. The same example does NOT prove that tighter gun laws ALWAYS work. It is wise to not participate in philosophical arguments without a basic understanding of logic. Just sayin'.

No, a single example would disprove a statement that tighter gun laws always result in a higher rate of gun violence. But a single example of a country with tighter gun laws and lower gun violence is perfectly consistent with gun control not working. That would just be a country that has lower rates of violence for other reasons.
 

vorticityDawg

Redshirt
Feb 24, 2008
104
0
16
...a single example of a country with tighter gun laws and lower gun violence is perfectly consistent with gun control not working. That would just be a country that has lower rates of violence for other reasons.

Wow. I stand by previous advice. You clearly have little/no understanding of logic, cause-effect, correlation, outliers, or the word "consistent."
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
5,812
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Wow. I stand by previous advice. You clearly have little/no understanding of logic, cause-effect, correlation, outliers, or the word "consistent."

Do you really not understand why you're wrong? Or do you understand and that's why you're not trying to explain anything and instead are just throwing out words?
 
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